The Interview with Dr. Kellogg

[Castaway57]

My experience on adventist forums tells me that there is
not one in one hundred who understands for himself the
sealing work of the people of God,
sky

unfortunately, you suffer from "I" trouble. You constantly use the words "my" "me" or "I" as if to reflect some kind of authority here in the falsehoods you preach, from your anti-Adventist vitriole.

what you really mean here is that only you have the real truth, and that we are expected to swallow it just because you say it. you mix in many truths with many errors, which makes your drama even more convincing:

how many there are who place the worst possible construction on the words and acts of others. By these would-be judges every little thing is scrutinized in the light of their own perverted understanding; and instead of considering that they themselves may be in error, as were Aaron and Miriam, they repeat their suspicions to others, who take up the reproach; and thus the very work is wrought that Satan desires to accomplish. This work is what is called "rejoicing in iniquity." Love "rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things; love never faileth." This is the Christ side of the question. The opposite spirit has already been described. It leads one to dwell on all the faults of others, and overlook their good qualities. When an error is committed, it looks back to gather up all the similar deeds, and treasures up all these, to confirm the darkest suppositions and attribute the worst motives. {ST, March 14, 1892 par. 10}

your posts here provide all the evidence needed to prove this quote. We are all equal in one thing. We must reflect on the state of our own souls, and inquire: "Is Jesus mine?"

Too often our hearts return to us an answer of peace; and it speaks to us just as we would have it speak.

Yet we must remember that our final sentence has not come forth from the mouth of our Judge; and what if, after all our self-centered, self flattering hopes and our baseless confidence, a sentence should come forth from Him quite cross to tat of our own heart? Where will we be then? What a confounded and lost person we would be. Christless, speechless, and hopeless all at once.

Stop reflecting on the state of our Church's soul, and of the souls of those who disagree with your anti-Adventist cult material. You have not been appointed by God to do any such work. You have no authority for this filthy work; except from the enemy of souls.

​

 

[rainbowinthesky]

The usual vitriol.

What am i supposed to do, refer to myself in the third person?

If master castaway quotes from Mrs. White it is all fine and
dandy but when I do it is always out of context, because it is
someone else quoting from that source.

The right thing to do is to address the issues not the poster by
making all sorts of allegations about him. It is against the rules
of this forum to character assassinate other users because one
disagrees with what is being posted.

I have said that I believe not one in one hundred among us
understands for himself the sealing of the people of God.

It is for you to show that you understand the sealing work,
not to attack me for stating what I have.

So please answer. What is the sealing work of the people of God?

sky

 

[Castaway57]

The usual vitriole.

What am i supposed to do, refer to myself in the third person?

If master castaway quotes from Mrs. White it is all fine and
dandy but when I do it is always out of context, because it is
someone else quoting from that source.

The right thing to do is to address the issues not the poster by
making all sorts of allegations about him. It is against the rules
of this forum to character assassinate other users because one
disagrees with what is being posted.

I have said that I believe not one in one hundred among us
understands for himself the sealing of the people of God.

It is for you to show that you understand the sealing work,
not to attack me for stating what I have.

So please answer. What is the sealing work of the people of God?

sky

You can hold out the debate carrot stick all you want, why do you think no one has taken you up on it? You refuse to play fair and supply references for most of what you are asked to do; and if you dont like the so called "character assasination," then prove me wrong. You have accused me of "hating the testimonies," amongst other things, I have easily show that to be wrong; I have mentioned that which you leave out, and you have yet to disprove even one sentence of my last post here; except to cry the blues about character assassination. Your self defensive pretense has nothing to do with reality. Answer th questions put to you and the concerns raised and stop the games.

I will come out and say that you obviously have no idea of the true nature and process of the sealing, or you wouldn't even be posting this topic.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Why do I even have to deal with you?
Did you not say your work here was
finished? What's up with that?

If you say you are going to leave the
place, do it. Stop playing games.

sky

 

[Castaway57]

Why do I even have to deal with you?
Did you not say your work here was
finished? What's up with that?

If you say you are going to leave the
place, do it. Stop playing games.

sky

Ahhh.Your quick, reactive response proves my point perfectly. When you are ready to actually think your respones through and gives us an answer with some meat in it; I'll be around.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Are you playing this other game as to who's
smarter? I find your behaviour to be very
immature, to say the very least of it.

How can I not help but think that your sole
purpose here is to provoke me and that I
will retaliate, that by your mean course of
action I will be tempted to say or do things
that will not be commendable.

Mrs. White in 1 S.M.360 stated that "There
is not even one in one hundred who understands
for himself the Bible truth on this subject that
is so necessary to our present and eternal
welfare."

Now the sealing work of the people of God is
directly involved with this Bible truth that not
even one in one hundred understands for himself.
This is the foundation for my statement to the
effect that there is not even one in one hundred
who understands the sealing work for himself.

On this thread alone there is plenty of evidence
from your own posts that you have rejected this
Bible truth on this subject that is so necessary
to our present and eternal welfare. How could
you, then, understand the sealing work?

sky

 

[Castaway57]

Of course sky; and I am sure you see yourself as this "one in one hundred" who is going to set us straight, as usual. History does repeat itself.

Its just like I said above:

You can hold out the debate carrot stick all you want, why do you think no one has taken you up on it? You refuse to play fair and supply references for most of what you are asked to do; and if you dont like the so called "character assassination," then prove me wrong. You have accused me of "hating the testimonies," amongst other things, I have easily show that to be wrong; I have mentioned that which you leave out, and you have yet to disprove even one sentence of my last post here; except to cry the blues about character assassination. Your self defensive pretense has nothing to do with reality. Answer the questions put to you and the concerns raised and stop the games.

I will come out and say that you obviously have no idea of the true nature and process of the sealing, or you wouldn't even be posting this topic.

Case in point; you have refused to provide detailed verifiable references on all your mumbo-jumbo about Kellogg in the beginning of this topic, and you know his beliefs have many holes in them; so you change the topic several times on us here to gloss over that and avoiding the concerns put to you over Kellogg. I expect you will change the topic again soon in this thread, and that you never will answer those concerns I brought to you re Kellogg

 

[rainbowinthesky]

When will you stop your constant harassment?

You obviously need to learn a few things at
the school of Christ.

You have made it crystal clear that you do not
believe in freedom of speech and of conscience.
Otherwise your replies would be of a more
tolerant tone toward those you disagree with.

The spirit with which you approach everything I
post is reminiscent of that of the inquisition.

Be careful how you indulge the attributes of Satan.

"In matters of conscience the soul must be left
untrammeled." D.A.550.

I am afraid you have absolutely no idea what these
words mean.

If you are going to address what it is I post,
then address the issues, not the poster.
Stop judging and condemning me.

Can you explain the sealing work or not?

 

[Castaway57]

Can you explain the sealing work or not?

Harassment?

Case in point; you have refused to provide detailed verifiable references on all your mumbo-jumbo about Kellogg in the beginning of this topic, and you know his beliefs have many holes in them; so you change the topic several times on us here to gloss over that and avoiding the concerns put to you over Kellogg. I expect you will change the topic again soon in this thread, and that you never will answer those concerns I brought to you re Kellogg

Affaire au point, vous avez refusé de fournir des références vérifiables détaillées sur tous vos charabia sur Kellogg au début de ce sujet, et vous savez que ses croyances ont beaucoup de trous dans eux, si vous changez le sujet à plusieurs reprises sur nous ici à gommer sur cela et en évitant les problèmes qui vous sont posées sur Kellogg. Je m'attends à ce que vous allez changer le sujet très bientôt sur ​​ce sujet, et que vous ne le serai jamais répondre à ces préoccupations que j'ai apporté à vous re Kellogg

The subject has now been changed to "The Seal/s Of God" and by you, not me.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

The subject has now been changed to "The Seal/s Of God" and by you, not me.

castaway
_____________

So?

 

[Castaway57]

The subject has now been changed to "The Seal/s Of God" and by you, not me.

castaway
_____________

So?

​

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Clear down through history, God has had an unbroken line of faithful people. In Christ's day, the Apostles and their converts were the true people of God. But with the falling away of those who followed the early leaders came the rise of the man of sin (papacy) foretold in prophecy. But despite this there were true followers of the Lord in all lands, people who suffered terribly at the hands of the fallen church.

Then came the revival of the truth through the Reformers the first of whom was John Wycliffe, then Huss and Jerome, next came Lefevre and Farrel in France and at last Luther and his associates. Mighty indeed was the work which they did but they were the beginning, not the ending of the preparation of the people who are to finish the work of God in all the world.

These did not understand the great prophecies of Daniel 8:14 and of Revelation 13-19. More truth was yet to be revealed and for this purpose, God brought into being The Great Advent Movement of the 1833-1844 period.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Nowhere is the rise of the Advent Movement better portrayed than in Revelation 14:6-12. The particular symbol which engages our attention is the symbol of the angels of the prophecy. An angel in this connection symbolizes a movement of people.

"These angels represent those who receive the truth and with power open the gospel to the world." Ellen, Bible Commentary, Vol.7, p.979.

But notice that each of the angels follows the one before him. They do not all come at the same time in succession. This indicates that rather than there being the one movement, there is a succession of movements. Yet at the same time we speak of the Great Advent Movement as if it was one movement only. This is also true but the fact remains that there is a succession of movements within the overall movement!

This is the fact of the case as we witness it in history. As we study the rise of the movement, we shall see a significant pattern emerging. The warning message began to be given under the call and guidance of the Lord within the Protestant Churches which at that time, 1833, were the professed people of God upon the earth.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

1. In 1833, it was light beyond that which the churches had yet found in their march away from the apostate church.

2. It was not given by the ecclesiastical authorities of the churches, and,

3. Only a small portion actually accepted the light and followed it.

This is the basic pattern which we shall see repeated with every new "angel" coming upon the scene. Let us put the facts of it down again so that it is clear in mind.

First of all it was light beyond that which had been already received. It was the message of the impending judgment in the light of Daniel 8:14.

Secondly, it was carried, not by the established and recognized leaders of the churches but by laymen of God's own choosing. Miller and Himes were the principal leaders in the proclamation of the first angel's movement or message!

Thirdly, only a few of those who were in the churches took their stand for the message. The remainder fought it most vigorously. Only a minority stood for it.

So the first angel's movement was formed and it was then largely a church within the churches. Separation was not a clear cut and absolute matter although they were separate in spirit. Yet they still largely belonged to the churches.

 

[Castaway57]

So what happened to your big "seal of God " hub bub? Did you change the subject on us again?

 

[rainbowinthesky]

THE SECOND MOVEMENT

The second "angel" followed the first. In the summer of 1844, began to sound the message, "Babylon is fallen," and a new movement took shape. Once again the same pattern is repeated.

First, here was light in advance of that sounded by the first angel's movement. But at the same time they held to and taught all the truth which had been revealed through the first angel.

Secondly, it was carried, not by those who had been the leaders in the first angel's movement but by new leadership. Whereas Miller and Himes had been the men who had led out in the first movement, Fitch, Litch, and Snow were the voices in the second.

Thirdly, not all those who had stood for the message of the first angel were prepared to go on into the second message and movement. They showed then that they were willing to go so far with the Lord but not all the way. Thus they turned their backs from following Him and lost the truth and the salvation which comes through the truth. Others came in to take their places until the numbers swelled to over 50,000 in the days which led up to October 1844. See The Great Controversy, p.376.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

The second movement did not complete the work either. This movement was but a stage further in the program of last day events. The third "angel" followed the second. And the fact of history is that the third movement began immediately the second had taken the people as far as it could for the time being. On the 22nd of October 1844, came THE GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT as their expectations of seeing the Lord come were not realized. The very next day, after a long night of prayer, the clarifying light began to dawn and the third angel's message began.

Again the pattern was repeated. First, there was additional light not studied by either the first or the second movement. It was light which showed the special work of Christ in the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary. It showed the real nature of the cleansing of the sanctuary and explained as to why they had been disappointed in their expectations. But let it be seen that nothing of what they now received led them to reject the great basic truths received under the first and the second angels. The new light only added to and confirmed the previous light given, and they preached all that and the extra light with still greater conviction and power.

Secondly, those who had led out in the second angel's movement were not the leaders now. New men came upon the scene to carry the work forward. Now it was Bates, Loughborough, and James and Ellen White.

Thirdly, not all those who took their part in the second angel's message found their way into the third. In fact only a remnant did. Of the 50,000 who looked for the Lord to come on October 22, 1844, only very few remained for the added light. They also showed that their faith was of a nature which could not endure the trials which awaited them and they fell under the test and then cast away what truth they had. Thus they too, lost their eternal life.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

There was yet another angel to follow the third and he is spoken of in Revelation 18:1. Already laid down for us is the clear cut pattern of what this will mean. It will mean that there will be a great deal of additional light to be added to the light already given. It means that it will be championed by new leaders. It means that the vast majority of those who were numbered as the members of the third angel's movement will reject this light and finally persecute those who do accept it. It means that they will lose their eternal life in so doing for they will demonstrate that they are prepared to go so far with their Lord.

The fourth and final angel's message will institute a fresh movement as did the previous three, with added light, new leadership and only a remnant of the personel of the previous movement going on into it!

The prophetic word has made the clearest declarations of when the first angel's message began, when the second and when the third began. Can we not therefore expect to find equally clear declarations about the fourth? Absolutely.

Four years after the preaching of elders Waggoner and Jones, we read:

"The time of test is just upon us, for the loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer. This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth." Ellen, Bible Commentary, Vol.7, p.984; Review and Herald, Nov.22, 1892.

On the same page is this wonderful statement:

"The prophecies of the eighteenth of Revelation will soon be fulfilled. During the proclamation of the third angel's message,'another angel' is to come down from heaven having great power and the earth is to be lightened with his glory."

By the plain words of these statements, then, what year did this angel begin his work? 1888.

Here is another witness from the book Selected Messages, Vol.1, p.235:

"The light that was to lighten the whole earth with its glory was resisted and by the action of our own brethren has been in a great degree kept away from the world."

These statements leave us with no doubt whatsoever, that, as surely as the first angel came in 1833, the second in the spring of 1844, and the third in October 23, 1844, just so surely the fourth came in the year 1888. The first angel represented a movement of people, as did the second, and also the third. Does the fourth or the angel of Revelation 18:1 also represent a movement of people with added light and new leadership? Certainly!

"Hence the movement symbolized by the angel coming down from heaven lightening the earth with his glory... The angel who unites in the proclamation of the third angel's message is to lighten the whole earth with his glory. A work of world-wide extent and unwonted power is here foretold." The Great Controversy, pp.604,611.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

The 1888 message was light beyond that which the churches had already received:

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way to attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith the sinner can bring to God the merits of Christ. Then God receives, pardons and justifies the repentant, believing sinner. This is how faith is counted righteousness. Then God loves the sinner as He loves His only begotten Son and the pardoned soul goes on from grace to grace and from light to a greater light." Ellen, Review and Herald, Nov.4, 1890.

This added light of simply bringing to God the merits of Christ for salvation was carried, not by the established leaders of the day, but by men of God's own choosing. Whereas Bates, Loughborough, and James White were the principal leaders in the proclamation of the third angel's message, Ellen White and Waggoner and Jones were the voices in the fourth.

"The Lord in His great mercy sent a most precious message to His people through elders Waggoner and Jones... It invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. Many had lost sight of Jesus and they needed to have their eyes directed to Jesus, to His divine Person, His merits, and His changeless love for the human family... This is the third angel's message, which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice and attended with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in large measure." Testimoies to Ministers, p.91,92; Faith and Works, p.65,66,93,97.

That this message was light in advance of that sounded by the third angel's movement is verified in the following statements from the pen of inspiration:

"When brother Waggoner brought out these ideas at Minneapolis, it was the first clear teaching on this subject from any human lips I had heard, excepting the conversations between myself and my husband." MS 5, 1888.

It is evident that the Lord Himself regarded the message of Waggoner and Jones as something not preached clearly before. The message of 1888 was something which the brethren had not previously comprehended.

"In Minneapolis God gave precious gems of truth to His people in new settings." Counsels to Writers and Editors, p.30.

Not all those who stood for the message of the third angel were prepared to go on into the fourth message and movement.

"That light which was to fill the whole earth with its glory has been despised by some who claim to believe what is present truth. Be careful how you treat it. Take off the shoes from off your feet, for you are on holy ground." Testimonies to Ministers, pp.89,90.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

We must today keep pace with the advancing light and be prepared to go on into the fourth angel's movement as the message is revived the second time. The same pattern will be repeated except that this time, the work will be brought to its completion. It will "spread like fire in the stubble" and it will be "a complete success," for Christ's righteousness will accomplish everything. Ellen, 1 S.M.118,411; F.W.27.

"At Minneapolis, there was evidence and there was reasoning from the Word that commended itself to the conscience; but the minds of men were fixed, sealed against the entrance of light, because they had decided it was a dangerous error removing the old landmarks when it was not removing a peg of the old landmarks, but they had perverted ideas of what constituted the old landmarks." Ellen, Counsels to Writers and Editors, p.30.

The fourth angel's movement with its added light, resisted before, will be resisted again. The following statement bears that out:

"If this attitude is preserved, then when the Lord shall again let His light shine upon the people, they will turn from the heavenly illumination." 1 S.M.143.

"The forms of religion will be continued by a people from whom the Spirit of God has been finally withdrawn; and the satanic zeal with which the prince of evil will inspire them for the accomplishment of his malignant designs, will bear the semblance of zeal for God." The Great Controversy, p.615; Testimonies to Ministers,366.(this happened to the Jewish people after 34 A.D.)

The pattern will be repeated:

"Many a star that we have admired for its brillliancy will then go out in darkness. Chaff like a cloud will be borne away in the wind, even from places where we see only floors of wheat. All who assume the garments of the sanctuary but are not clothed with the robe of Christ's righteousness, will appear in the shame of their own nakedness." Testimonies, Vol.5, pp.81.

"Those who have trusted to intellect, genius, or talent will not then stand at the head of rank and file. They did not keep pace with the advancing light. In the last great work few great men will be engaged. They are self-sufficient, independent of God and He cannot use them. The Lord has faithful servants, who in the shaking, testing time will be disclosed to view." Testimonies, Vol.5, pp.80,81.