What I Dislike About Evangelical Services

[GodsGirlToday61]

Now i know this is off topic but I thought I'd add my favorite part of attending an evangelical service. The pot luck dinner after. Man those Baptists can cook so well that one needs to go to confession for gluttony afterwards.

Someone asked why I am not 'singularly' Catholic, and I gotta say, the potluck stuff has something to do with it--and that music (though not actual songs) that some find OTT.

Growing up in the mean streets, violent bio-fam, foster homes, scary schools...well, the Freewill and Southern Baptist potlucks and Singins (with food) stand out as, no kidding, the best memories of childhood, bar none. I've been skinny most of my life but not for lack of opportunities, so many through Baptist-based get-togethers, for 'gluttonous eating' but because I can't: fetal alcohol effect, just one problem area is a digestive system that cannot tolerate habitual excess, but I do my best to help others enjoy their potluck food!

You know, I've found, seriously, you can hook someone with physical food, then keep some of them coming long enough to get filled up on God's spiritual sustenance.

~ Carolyn

 

[bbbbbbb]

That is a sign that the parish is in financial trouble. can't say I've ever heard of such in a Catholic Church (the homily part) but I don't doubt you at all. I went to a non-denom church once that passed it three times. One for the regular offering one for the building fund and one for a sister who was late on the light bill. It came along with a dig deep sermon. But I think my favorite was one that used satin bags on a long poles that the deacons never let loose of. Not sure if that's an AoG tradition or if that one had problems with people removing money from the plate. I do know they'd sure wiggle it in front of those that didn't put something in a bit too long.
Now i know this is off topic but I thought I'd add my favorite part of attending an evangelical service. The pot luck dinner after. Man those Baptists can cook so well that one needs to go to confession for gluttony afterwards.

The offering baskets or bags on a pole have a long history and don't seem to be limited to any denomination. I think the Puritans used them and I think some Catholic churches might use them, as well.

The worst offense in this aspect was the pew rental system that was used throughout the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries and maybe before that. Pews were rented at various rates depending on their location in the church. I once saw a historic Methodist church which had private boxes in the balcony like in an opera house. One's social status was clearly on display by the location of one's pew. In Boston that meant that black members had to stand in the balconies during the services because they could not afford to rent a pew. In 1838 various Christians formed a new church which did not rent pews and permitted open seating for all regardless of race or financial status. That church continues to this day. It is Tremont Temple Baptist Church.

 

[sunlover1]

Now i know this is off topic but I thought I'd add my favorite part of attending an evangelical service. The pot luck dinner after. Man those Baptists can cook so well that one needs to go to confession for gluttony afterwards.

Those baptists can cook!

But my church, in the inner city, we can make up a mess of
good food too.
You'd like the preaching before lunch as well.

You'd love it!

 

[Rev Randy]

The offering baskets or bags on a pole have a long history and don't seem to be limited to any denomination. I think the Puritans used them and I think some Catholic churches might use them, as well.

The worst offense in this aspect was the pew rental system that was used throughout the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries and maybe before that. Pews were rented at various rates depending on their location in the church. I once saw a historic Methodist church which had private boxes in the balcony like in an opera house. One's social status was clearly on display by the location of one's pew. In Boston that meant that black members had to stand in the balconies during the services because they could not afford to rent a pew. In 1838 various Christians formed a new church which did not rent pews and permitted open seating for all regardless of race or financial status. That church continues to this day. It is Tremont Temple Baptist Church.

Thanks for the bag on a stick history. I did not know that and thought it was unique to that denom.
I've been to a few churches where they needed to use sticks to wake up all the people the preacher put to sleep
I've heard of the pew rentals. Kinda makes one wonder who forgot to actually think before beginning such. I mean why not just sell tickets to the show at the door?

 

[Gnarwhal]

I I've stumbled upon a reason for why I find the average Sunday service at an Evangelical church to be shallower than a liturgical service.

Most non-Eucharistic services in Protestant churches follow the same basic structure of the Daily Office, that is, song and then instruction. However, the average Evangelical service takes the Bible out to do so! Rather than go through the Psalms, it doubles down on the hymns and anthems (or choruses and praise-n-worship songs). Proclaiming the Word of God has been cut to allow for an extended sermon. If the defining mark of Evangelicals is supposed to be their respect for Scripture, then why isn't it given more attention in their services? Why isn't the living and active Word allowed to speak for itself? Is there a reason? Am I missing something?

What do you think?

I'm joining this conversation pretty late, but I must say I agree with you. I walked away from evangelicalism a long time ago, partly because of what you mentioned above. At every juncture, it's become more about marketing and demographics and being relevant with our pop-culture than any semblance of the holy. I became so distracted by the fancy light shows and sound systems that cost nearly $100,000 during worship that I scarcely thought I was even at church anymore, it was more akin to a Coldplay concert than anything else. This isn't just an isolated case either, the majority of evangelical churches that either I or someone close to me has been to end up that way. It's very, very kitschy.

Oh yeah, and for touting themselves as bible-based churches or whatever, I could probably count the number of [tiny] scripture references on one hand.

I just learned my old church is starting some series they're calling "The Story", supposedly based on a book of that title. So, instead of teaching Scripture or any of the historically valid church fathers, they're just going to go through a book that talks about the biblical narrative.

And they wonder why the membership has dropped off 70% or more.

 

[Rev Randy]

I I've stumbled upon a reason for why I find the average Sunday service at an Evangelical church to be shallower than a liturgical service.

Most non-Eucharistic services in Protestant churches follow the same basic structure of the Daily Office, that is, song and then instruction. However, the average Evangelical service takes the Bible out to do so! Rather than go through the Psalms, it doubles down on the hymns and anthems (or choruses and praise-n-worship songs). Proclaiming the Word of God has been cut to allow for an extended sermon. If the defining mark of Evangelicals is supposed to be their respect for Scripture, then why isn't it given more attention in their services? Why isn't the living and active Word allowed to speak for itself? Is there a reason? Am I missing something?

What do you think?

I think you've stumbled onto the truth.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think you've stumbled onto the truth.

yeah me too .

 

[Albion]

I'm joining this conversation pretty late, but I must say I agree with you. I walked away from evangelicalism a long time ago, partly because of what you mentioned above. At every juncture, it's become more about marketing and demographics and being relevant with our pop-culture than any semblance of the holy. I became so distracted by the fancy light shows and sound systems that cost nearly $100,000 during worship that I scarcely thought I was even at church anymore, it was more akin to a Coldplay concert than anything else. This isn't just an isolated case either, the majority of evangelical churches that either I or someone close to me has been to end up that way. It's very, very kitschy.

It's true, although I'm sure there are non-denoms, evangelicals, etc. who would say they aren't like that.

And the reason for all this showmanship that you are speaking of--and which turns me off, too--is that they are trying to attract the unchurched. Like any sideshow barker, you've got to have some hook or schpeel in order to get the prospects into the building where the real thing takes place.

Although it's not my way, I can sympathize with that. If this is what it takes to get a non-believer to notice the Gospel....well, maybe that's justified.

The problem then becomes the fact that they continue it in every worship service thereafter! There's no worship or instruction that isn't continuing to use the tactics used to first attract the unchurched.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

There's no worship or instruction that isn't continuing to use the tactics used to first attract the unchurched.

attract ye first the unchurched .. and all this tithe money will be added to your coffers ..

but wasn't it seek ye first the kingdom of God .. and then?

 

[Gnarwhal]

It's true, although I'm sure there are non-denoms, evangelicals, etc. who would say they aren't like that. And the reason for all this showmanship that you are speaking of--and which turns me off, too--is that they are trying to attract the unchurched. Like any sideshow barker, you've got to have some hook or schpeel in order to get the prospects into the building where the real thing takes place. Although it's not my way, I can sympathize with that. If this is what it takes to get a non-believer to notice the Gospel....well, maybe that's justified. The problem then becomes the fact that they continue it in every worship service thereafter! There's no worship or instruction that isn't continuing to use the tactics used to first attract the unchurched.

It's true. It's an attempt to attract the unchurched, but over the years church itself has diminished inside of this "conference" or "seminar" or whatever you want to call what they're doing. Before I left, it had been years since I'd heard the gospel proclaimed, or anyone offering classes to educate folks on the faith. Nothing. Bupkis.

 

[seashale76]

The offering baskets or bags on a pole have a long history and don't seem to be limited to any denomination. I think the Puritans used them and I think some Catholic churches might use them, as well.

The worst offense in this aspect was the pew rental system that was used throughout the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries and maybe before that. Pews were rented at various rates depending on their location in the church. I once saw a historic Methodist church which had private boxes in the balcony like in an opera house. One's social status was clearly on display by the location of one's pew. In Boston that meant that black members had to stand in the balconies during the services because they could not afford to rent a pew. In 1838 various Christians formed a new church which did not rent pews and permitted open seating for all regardless of race or financial status. That church continues to this day. It is Tremont Temple Baptist Church.

Kind of gives a whole new meaning to 'you're sitting in my seat', doesn't it? If you tour any of those old colonial era churches that still exist many of these box pews (complete with doors that closed you off from the aisle) even have name plates of the original members who rented them. For example, you can go to Bruton Parish Church in Colonial Williamsburg and see Thomas Jefferson's pew. A vestryman who hated Williamsburg and never took communion in his life- but the man had his own pew.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Although it's not my way, I can sympathize with that. If this is what it takes to get a non-believer to notice the Gospel....well, maybe that's justified.

Though it's a pretty significant problem when there's no Gospel in the mess because it's all become a loud mess of religious blandness.

Tacking on an "altar call" to the end really doesn't solve the problem of there being no Gospel; as the whole theology of the altar call is generally Gospel-less.

"Come up front, say this prayer, sign on the dotted line, and hocus pocus you're not going to Hell" isn't quite the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Albion]

Though it's a pretty significant problem when there's no Gospel in the mess because it's all become a loud mess of religious blandness.

I did say 'Well, maybe..."

I'm willing to give them benefit of the doubt to that extent.

Tacking on an "altar call" to the end really doesn't solve the problem of there being no Gospel; as the whole theology of the altar call is generally Gospel-less.

I think that's too stong. Billy Graham, one of history's greatest preachers of the Gospel, used altar calls and was responsible for more conversions than anyone you or I know.

"Come up front, say this prayer, sign on the dotted line, and hocus pocus you're not going to Hell" isn't quite the Gospel.

Well, no. THAT wouldn't be, but of course you are only satirizing the altar call and not reproducing a real one.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What I Dislike About Evangelical Services


Perhaps we should also have a thread on what we dislike about the services of Roman Catholicism

.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What I Dislike About Evangelical Services


Perhaps we should also have a thread on what we dislike about the services of Roman Catholicism

.

That's more-or-less every other thread topic on GT.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Albion]

What I Dislike About Evangelical Services


Perhaps we should also have a thread on what we dislike about the services of Roman Catholicism

.

If you wish. I can't recall a thread that deal with that directly.

 

[Gnarwhal]

What I Dislike About Evangelical Services Perhaps we should also have a thread on what we dislike about the services of Roman Catholicism .

I think the scales have been unfairly tipped towards Catholics enough as it is.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I think the scales have been unfairly tipped towards Catholics enough as it is.

May not be "unfairly"; may be justifiably so; in the direction of Liturgical orthodoxy.

 

[freezerman2000]

Funeral services..We go to remember the person-people who recently died...not to get the "Are you saved" routine. Save that for a regular service..
Honor the deceased...don't worry about my immortal soul at a time like that!

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Funeral services..We go to remember the person-people who recently died...not to get the "Are you saved" routine. Save that for a regular service..
Honor the deceased...don't worry about my immortal soul at a time like that!

Yes, we do commemorate the person who died, to give thanks for their life, and prayerfully commend them to our Lord's eternal care. Our Church does not permit eulogizing in our Funerals. Our Funeral Liturgies are first and foremost worship services. To eulogize glorifies the person, when all the glory is God's alone (Sola Deo Gloria). If one want's to eulogize, there is the visitation before the service, there is also lots of time after the service.