John 3:14-16 teaches that Christ died for everyone

[guuila]

griff, I think you need to read a bit slower. In v.11 we read that God's grace, that brings salvation, has appeared to ALL MEN, not "us", as you'd rather have it.

Then, in v.12 we read that God's grace "trains US", not ALL MEN.

Apparently you see no difference between the meaning of "all men" and "us".

Since that's not clear to you, how do you ever expect to understand anything else in Scripture?

So, I'll help you out. v.11 refers to the human race, and v.12 focuses on those who have believed, hence the "us" word.

But that is a rather inconvenient truth, huh.

So you're saying this grace appeared, bringing salvation to 100% of humanity, yet only some of the people in that group are trained to renounce ungodliness? I didn't know you're a universalist. This whole time I was thinking you believed in eternal punishment in hell.

 

[tulipbee]

“Calvinism is nothing more than a nickname for Biblical Christianity.” - Charles Spurgeon

 

[FreeGrace2]

So it doesn't say it? Thanks.

Really? Is that what I agreed to?

Here's what I did say:

What? You don't think salvation is a gift? Salvation and eternal life are the same thing. So Titus 2:11 does mean that. Unless you can refute that. Well?

You once again ignored my question and posed another one. Reminds me of one of your own campers, crimsonleaf:

People who answer a question with another question usually do so because they can't come up with an answer. Your attempted diversion is noted.

Now answer the question please.

So, your attempted diversion is noted.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is this what you Calvinists do to yourselves after being refuted by the truth?

That would explain all the pain and emotion I see coming from y'all's posts.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So you're saying this grace appeared, bringing salvation to 100% of humanity, yet only some of the people in that group are trained to renounce ungodliness? I didn't know you're a universalist. This whole time I was thinking you believed in eternal punishment in hell.

Seems you're having a very difficult time understanding anything. I quoted Titus 2:11, so I'm not "saying" anything. The Bible said it.

But you can twist and pervert "all men" to mean anything your heart desires. We all know that is one of the favorite pasttimes of Calvinists.

But, your comment reveals your failure to discern between "all men" and "us". That is why you have sided with Calvinism. Your inability to discern. But my explanation was clear, even if you didn't understand it.

Or maybe, it was all just a very inconvenient truth.

 

[Hammster]

Really? Is that what I agreed to?

Here's what I did say:

You once again ignored my question and posed another one. Reminds me of one of your own campers, crimsonleaf:

So, your attempted diversion is noted.

I think you forgot something. I asked a question. Then you responded with a question.

So I guess it's your diversion that's noted.

 

[FreeGrace2]

“Calvinism is nothing more than a nickname for Biblical Christianity.” - Charles Spurgeon

Wrong. It is the name of inaccurate commentary by one J Calvin.

Paul took the Corinthian church to task for their divisiveness as noted in 1 Cor 1:10-13
10Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

And 1 Cor 3:3-5
3for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? 4For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?
5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.

So, basically, all who call themselves "Calvinist" or "Arminian" are "still fleshly" or "carnal", and walking like "mere men".

 

[Hammster]

Seems you're having a very difficult time understanding anything. I quoted Titus 2:11, so I'm not "saying" anything. The Bible said it.

But you can twist and pervert "all men" to mean anything your heart desires. We all know that is one of the favorite pasttimes of Calvinists.

But, your comment reveals your failure to discern between "all men" and "us". That is why you have sided with Calvinism. Your inability to discern. But my explanation was clear, even if you didn't understand it.

Or maybe, it was all just a very inconvenient truth.

All men is referring to the different types Paul was talking about in the first 10 verses. The context makes that plain. And since he's writing to a church, the "us" is natural language.

 

[Hammster]

Wrong. It is the name of inaccurate commentary by one J Calvin.

Paul took the Corinthian church to task for their divisiveness as noted in 1 Cor 1:10-13
10Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

And 1 Cor 3:3-5
3for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? 4For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?
5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.

So, basically, all who call themselves "Calvinist" or "Arminian" are "still fleshly" or "carnal", and walking like "mere men".

^^^This is someone who doesn't know what Calvinism is.

 

[crimsonleaf]

^^^This is someone who doesn't know what Calvinism is.

No kidding? He's proved that over a couple of thousand posts.

I like it when he asks us to point out a contradiction, like he did in the other thread, then claims his "back button" doesn't work on his 'puter when you do. That's funny. Especially when he then asks someone to repeat something they never said in the first place. That's really funny.

He seems to have it fixed now, as he's quoting post numbers left, right and centre.

 

[Don Maurer]

No kidding? He's proved that over a couple of thousand posts.

I like it when he asks us to point out a contradiction, like he did in the other thread, then claims his "back button" doesn't work on his 'puter when you do. That's funny. Especially when he then asks someone to repeat something they never said in the first place. That's really funny.

He seems to have it fixed now, as he's quoting post numbers left, right and centre.

Yes, is there not a proverb somewhere about replying to a fool? FG2s dishonesty and lack of integrity has been repeatedly demonstrated by many of you. It is obvious that he is not here for honest debate. In my opinion, he is hijacking the entire debate section of this forum. Honest people who disagree with Calvinism cannot come here and discuss things with his presence here.

 

[guuila]

Seems you're having a very difficult time understanding anything. I quoted Titus 2:11, so I'm not "saying" anything. The Bible said it.

But you can twist and pervert "all men" to mean anything your heart desires. We all know that is one of the favorite pasttimes of Calvinists.

But, your comment reveals your failure to discern between "all men" and "us". That is why you have sided with Calvinism. Your inability to discern. But my explanation was clear, even if you didn't understand it.

Or maybe, it was all just a very inconvenient truth.

So you think "all men" means 100% of humanity, yet you want to say this grace doesn't actually do what the verse says it does. Hey, whatever works to support your traditions brah.

 

[guuila]

He seems to have it fixed now, as he's quoting post numbers left, right and centre.

It's possible if it's convenient. Weird.

 

[FreeGrace2]

All men is referring to the different types Paul was talking about in the first 10 verses.

Ya, sure. Older men, older women, younger women, husbands, children, young men, slaves, masters. You're one funny guy.

But again, since Calvinists come to the Scriptures with the bias that Christ DIDN'T die for everyone, we sure can't take those verses at face value, now can we. LOL

v.11 isn't about the first 10 verses in ch 2. You are just trying to force it to.

The context makes that plain. And since he's writing to a church, the "us" is natural language.

Yes, the "us" in v.12 does refer to believers only. But not v.11. Not even close.

 

[FreeGrace2]

^^^This is someone who doesn't know what Calvinism is.

Sure. Go ahead and point out what I've said about Calvinism that isn't true. Please.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I like it when he asks us to point out a contradiction, like he did in the other thread, then claims his "back button" doesn't work on his 'puter when you do.

What does that have to do with you guys proving your claim? Nothing. And the website is working fine again.

btw, it wasn't my "back button" that wasn't working. But since you guys still can't represent my view accurately, I see no point in trying to explain it to you.

 

[tulipbee]

... He's proved that over a couple of thousand posts...

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] A MASTER who lived as a hermit on a mountain was asked by a monk,
"What is the Way?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"What a fine mountain this is," the master said in reply.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I am not asking you about the mountain, but about the Way."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"So long as you cannot go beyond the mountain, my son, you cannot
reach the Way," replied the master.[/FONT]

​

 

[FreeGrace2]

FG2s dishonesty and lack of integrity has been repeatedly demonstrated by many of you.

Can you back up that preposterous claim with any proof? Or is that just your jaw quivering?

It is obvious that he is not here for honest debate.

LOL You guys can't answer my questions, you can't represent my view accuractely and you claim that I'm not honest. LOL

[QUOTRE] In my opinion, he is hijacking the entire debate section of this forum.[/QUOTE]
Really? And without so much as a weapon. Other than the Word of God, that is!

Honest people who disagree with Calvinism cannot come here and discuss things with his presence here.

Really? Who have I scared off?

 

[Hammster]

Ya, sure. Older men, older women, younger women, husbands, children, young men, slaves, masters. You're one funny guy.

Right. All people (with all meaning all types, which is not only acceptable, but makes the most sense in this context).

But again, since Calvinists come to the Scriptures with the bias that Christ DIDN'T die for everyone, we sure can't take those verses at face value, now can we. LOL

I actually used to hold a view similar to yours. But it was by reading the text as the original hears would have that led me to come to a more biblical understanding.

v.11 isn't about the first 10 verses in ch 2. You are just trying to force it to.

It is. I checked. It comes right after v. 10. And it fits with what Paul was writing. It's not just some new idea that he decided to throw in after writing v. 10.

Yes, the "us" in v.12 does refer to believers only. But not v.11. Not even close.

And that us solely based on your presupposition. You cannot get that from the context. In fact, you have to read your theology into v. 11 to come up with your view.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So you think "all men" means 100% of humanity, yet you want to say this grace doesn't actually do what the verse says it does.

Your comment reveals your total lack of comprehension of Titus 2:11. But hey, all I can do is offer an explanation.

Apparently you think "brings salvation" means everyone gets it, huh. No, Jesus Christ obtained eternal redemption (Heb 9:12) and by grace brings to all men. What's so hard to understand about this?