Those who denounce Paul

[ananda]

Are you remotely saying that Jesus' example is a command for us? If this is the case you're and every one else isn't in compliance. Furthermore it isn't possible.

This isn't what Jesus taught.

Absolutely I am saying that His example is a command for us to diligently follow.

If this was not a command, then was He mocking us when He said "follow Me"? Compare Mt 4:19, 8:22, 9:9, 10:38, 11:29, 16:24, 19:21, Jn 1:43, 10:27, 12:26, 13:15, 13:36, 21:19, Lk 5:27, 9:23, 9:59, 14:27, Mk 2:14, 8:34, 10:21, Psa 85:13, etc., with Peter's confirmation 1Pe 2:21, and John's as well 1Jo 1:7, 2:4, 2:6, 3:16?

 

[ananda]

Peter endorsed Paul in writing. But that isn't good enough for you. The Council at Jerusalem sent Paul with their letter bearing what Paul preached. This was also in writing. And there were more than two doing so at the Council.

Where did Peter endorse Paul's doctrines? And with that question, I mean, where did Peter teach Paul's unique doctrines?

 

[ananda]

That's not good, but there are enough protestants that don't think this way. There are even very legalistic protestants.

Something to keep in mind, that there is a difference between "legal" and "lawful".

To be "legalistic" is to push one's own traditions as obligatory. The Pharisees were legalistic.

This is opposite of being "lawful" - The lawful emphasizes YHWH's Law over legalistic traditions. Messiah was Lawful.

 

[ananda]

Yeah, that's quite a generalization. In fact, most of the people around here who are telling others what laws (both new and old) they need to be following are 'Protestants' (i.e. not-Catholic/Orthodox/etc.)

Yes, it was meant to be a generalization. Hundreds of pages could be written otherwise to go into detail

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by netzarim

I believe we should be as diligent as possible to the commandments we are appointed to follow, and those that we can follow, to the best of our ability.

Whereas mainstream Protestant Christianity would say "don't worry about the commandments at all, as long as you believe".
​

That's not good, but there are enough protestants that don't think this way. There are even very legalistic protestants.

Why would any Christian want to follow the legalism of Judaism or Roman Catholicism?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7575128/
legalism

anyone care to define it for me... it get's used a lot on the forum, but I have never seen anyone give it a concrete definition.


Steve

.

 

[from scratch]

Yeah, that's quite a generalization. In fact, most of the people around here who are telling others what laws (both new and old) they need to be following are 'Protestants' (i.e. not-Catholic/Orthodox/etc.)

Not all non-Catholic/Orthodox are protestants in the general understood sense. Some here are even called heretics. Might even be the heretics doing the calling too. ehehehehe

 

[from scratch]

Where did Peter endorse Paul's doctrines? And with that question, I mean, where did Peter teach Paul's unique doctrines?

II Peter 3:16 I do believe.

Also I would say his endorsement is found in Acts 15.

 

[seeingeyes]

Yes, it was meant to be a generalization. Hundreds of pages could be written otherwise to go into detail

Well, yeah, but from a 'Catholic' perspective, I'm pretty sure you're 'Protestant'.

But at any rate, I see enough folks from every branch of Christianity hammering home this law or that law (old or new) to know that it's not a function of theology to do so, it's a function of the heart.

Oh, but the Eastern Orthodox usually just add to my reading list.

 

[from scratch]

Something to keep in mind, that there is a difference between "legal" and "lawful".

To be "legalistic" is to push one's own traditions as obligatory. The Pharisees were legalistic.

This is opposite of being "lawful" - The lawful emphasizes YHWH's Law over legalistic traditions. Messiah was Lawful.

To a degree, yes. In reality the legalist holds to the letter of what ever they believe. To them there is no relativism. Things are exact.

 

[from scratch]

Well, yeah, but from a 'Catholic' perspective, I'm pretty sure you're 'Protestant'.

But at any rate, I see enough folks from every branch of Christianity hammering home this law or that law (old or new) to know that it's not a function of theology to do so, it's a function of the heart.

Oh, but the Eastern Orthodox usually just add to my reading list.

That indeed is a huge part of the problem on the issue of the law vs. grace. It has many confused. I've been set free!!!! Thank you Jesus!!!!

 

[ananda]

II Peter 3:16 I do believe. Also I would say his endorsement is found in Acts 15.

Those are not verses which show that Peter was teaching Paul's unique doctrines.

 

[ananda]

Well, yeah, but from a 'Catholic' perspective, I'm pretty sure you're 'Protestant'.

But at any rate, I see enough folks from every branch of Christianity hammering home this law or that law (old or new) to know that it's not a function of theology to do so, it's a function of the heart.

Oh, but the Eastern Orthodox usually just add to my reading list.

Yes, to the Catholics, any believer who is non-Catholic is generally considered by them to be a "Protestant".

 

[ananda]

To a degree, yes. In reality the legalist holds to the letter of what ever they believe. To them there is no relativism. Things are exact.

The righteous diligently walk in lawful obedience. They are not perfect. When they fail, they return quickly to the path of righteousness:

"For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again ..." Prov 24:16
​

The unrighteous - like the Pharisees - wickedly walks in lawful disobedience, or legalistic obedience.

 

[ananda]

That indeed is a huge part of the problem on the issue of the law vs. grace. It has many confused. I've been set free!!!! Thank you Jesus!!!!

Yes, we've been set free from the shackles of sin which prevented us from obedience

 

[GodsGirlToday61]

There is only one passage that I can think of where Paul exhorts anyone to follow the law. It is Eph 6 on children obeying their parents. This is to children and not the whole general group called Christians.

Christians as a group are now delivered from the law according to Paul. Jesus no where exhorts us to follow the law. Yes I'm very aware of the rich young ruler story.

from scratch:

I wasn't sharing the way I live... you know, I wasn't speaking directly to you 'only' or specifically, but I'm glad you answered as you did because you reminded me of my biological mother using that passage (and that particular Commandment on obeying parents) against me (and my sibs) whenever she wanted us to feel guilty that we weren't doing any number of things 'her' way, like making her coffee just right.

When I was 14 and she'd toss out, 'Children obey your parents...', I'd come back with Ephesians 6:4, (Here, I'm using NASB), 'Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.'

I only had the KJV, which is a shame because the NASB 'ending' of this verse, wow, that would have rocked her manipulative world-view (for all of two seconds) when I pointed out my biological father wasn't 'Saved', that was bio-Mom's language: 'Walking with the Lord', 'Saved', 'Mature in Christ' but especially not 'Saved'.

Ah, those were the days

***

You know, it would seem to be common sense that children ought to obey their parents when said parents are relatively sane, law-abiding (talking man's law, you know, 'not sending kids out to steal... and such'), but it doesn't seem to be for many...

My parents expected obedience, quick and complete, regardless of what they asked, Bible or other-based, you know, 'Go get me my (10th) beer', 'Bring me the leather belt' (so I can beat the crap out of one of your sisters), 'Go across the street and get a dime-bag cuz the pusher wants in your pants and gives me 50% off the pot'), and on and on it went, and I was not always obedient, or other times, I was obedient and then stopped obeying, like when the pusher shoved me against the wall and got sexual on me...

'In the Lord', though I did not have the NASB... still, I understood it well enough after I grew up, and I had a 'sense of' it when I was much younger...,

so at some point, and even earlier--on many points, I felt conflicted, guilty, rebellious, scared, hateful, and otherwise troubled, but sometimes just flat out would not do as I was told. (Hence, my mother arranging my marriage to a non-believer when I was 15--and not only was I not pregnant but I was not sexually active or even interested 'sexually' (I read so much my mother hid my books), but bio-mom did everything she could think of, including moving the 19-year-old male in to our house) to get me to be 'bad enough' to get rid of with a relatively clear conscience, you know, what passes for that in some human beings.)

'Children obey your parents in the Lord' still takes some 'thought'; still has much value; and to my mind, is covered under Jesus' pointing to the two greatest commandments to love God with everything we had, and to love our neighbor as ourselves'.

Hard to do those two, eh? But I try; if you knew me, you'd know how hard I try... And if you followed me around--and could read my heart-thoughts--like today--you'd feel purty good, I think, maybe even mighty good to know me...

Peace to you in Christ Jesus,

~ Carolyn (not politically correct, herself, for instance, I do not think of myself as ortho, protesting the Catholic church, or 'legalistic' or 'whatever' someone holding an ax is ready to chop me up over...)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by seeingeyes

Yeah, that's quite a generalization. In fact, most of the people around here who are telling others what laws (both new and old) they need to be following are 'Protestants' (i.e. not-Catholic/Orthodox/etc.)
​

Not all non-Catholic/Orthodox are protestants in the general understood sense. Some here are even called heretics. Might even be the heretics doing the calling too. ehehehehe

Nice one


.

 

[seeingeyes]

Nice one


.

Ooo! There's a heretic!

 

[seeingeyes]

Hard to do those two, eh? But I try; if you knew me, you'd know how hard I try... And if you followed me around--and could read my heart-thoughts--like today--you'd feel purty good, I think, maybe even mighty good to know me...

Peace to you in Christ Jesus,

My sister, I'm about to go off-topic, but I just wanted to add on that Jesus didn't tell us that the Father in heaven loves us like our father on earth does, he told us that our Father in heaven loves us more than we love our own kids. Those people who raised you are no example of God at all, no matter how many Bibles they thumped.

It is truly a picture of grace that you have learned this (I bet that was a long road.) Praise God!

"What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” (Luke 11)

You are clearly walking in the way, sis. The Lord bless you and keep you.

 

[Frogster]

Retirement will be warmer than tropical paradise.

 

[Frogster]

I've got no idea what you're talking about. That wasn't addressed to you.

On the other hand if we're doing as Jesus did we're in perfect compliance with the law in every aspect. Netzaim on the other hand is pushing compliance with the law. He's using Jesus as proof we're so obligated. This isn't what Jesus taught.