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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Those who denounce Paul
- Thread starter Koakku
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ananda
Early Buddhist
Acts 23:6: "But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee ..."
Virtually all the English translations has Paul stating "I am a Pharisee". As you know, "am" is εἰμι (a verb in the present indicative) in the Greek. The Greek present tense, when used in the indicative mood, shows a continuous action that is going on in the present time. Paul was stating "I am and continue to be a Pharisee".
This admission was made well into the period of his "Christian ministry".
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seeingeyes
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Yep. Paul was a Pharisee and also the chief of all sinners in his own estimation.
All the more reason to have a listen as far as I can tell.
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ananda
Early Buddhist
What, then, do you do with Messiah's statement: "Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees ... Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees." (Mt 16:6,12)Yep. Paul was a Pharisee ... All the more reason to have a listen as far as I can tell.
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Paul explained his statement in 1 Cor. 9.
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under [h]the Law, as under [i]the Law though not being myself under [j]the Law, so that I might win those who are under [k]the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
The Pharisees are under the law so Paul became one so that he might win them for Christ.
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Your twisting of the statement is what is in question here not that Paul said it. The "why" is essential.
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The reason why Paul made the statement clarifies the statement. Since Paul is NOT under the law and since the Pharisees ARE under the law then Paul's statement of being a Pharisee serves the purpose that he stated in 1 Cor. 9 and rules out him being a Pharisee in the sense that you are suggesting.
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Neither. Paul became many things to bring people to Christ. This is why the "why" is imperative to understand the statement.
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F
from scratch
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Now you wish to discredit Peter too. There doesn't seem to be much of the Bible you accept.
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seeingeyes
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I think there's a big difference between a Pharisee and a Pharisee who knows how wretched he is:Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get. But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, God, be merciful to me, a sinner!
A tax collector is not redeemed because he collects taxes, and a Pharisee isn't damned because he trained his whole life in religious matters.
Our God sees the heart, and that's what we should be looking at, too, if we ever hope to make a right judgement.
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