Calvinism provides an excuse for those in hell

[guuila]

That's right. ALL who believe will be saved. Even the stinkers who believe.

Even God hating atheists according to you... as long as they believed at one time God is going to force them into heaven. Sucks to be them... free will GONE! LOL!!!!

 

[Hammster]

Even God hating atheists according to you... as long as they believed at one time God is going to force them into heaven. Sucks to be them... free will GONE! LOL!!!!

Don't forget, there will be people in hell who didn't hate God as much, but weren't smart enough to collect their Get out of Hell Free card (walk the aisle, pray a sincere prayer). They, it would seem, have an excuse.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

I'm in good company.

Matthew 7
13 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

And just because you don't understand Paul's rhetoric, it doesn't make him a liar.

Out in left field again, I see. Paul called himself a liar.

Jesus knew the hearts of men when He said, "I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive" (John 5:43).
He also said in Matthew 15 -
8 This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far away from Me.
9 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Yep. And the reason I believe Paul is because of grace.

Because of grace? Are you serious? Where did you get this unbiblical belief? Are you following Paul because Paul said to follow him? This is the Pied Piper syndrome.

So do you actually think Jesus sat down with pen in hand and wrote part of the Bible? You do realize mere men wrote down what they heard Jesus say, right? On what basis do you believe their writings are infallible?

I see you are having red herring for supper tonight.

Wasn't it Jesus who in one verse prior said no man can come to him unless the Father who sent him draws them? And that he will raise the one who is drawn up on the last day?

I am beginning to think this is the only chapter you believe of Jesus. Have you forgotten Jesus said to obey the commandments in order to have eternal life? Where do these words of Truth from the Savior fit into your doctrine of salvation? Or does this not conform to the precepts of men?

No. We're all sinners in need of a savior.

Then I would advise you to read, understand, believe, and obey the words of the Savior Himself, instead of a mere man who proclaimed to have his own gospel.

 

[Hammster]

Matthew 7
13 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.




Out in left field again, I see. Paul called himself a liar.

Jesus knew the hearts of men when He said, "I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive" (John 5:43).
He also said in Matthew 15 -
8 This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far away from Me.
9 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.

Paul didn't call himself a liar. Not without rhetoric, anyway. Most people understand that.

 

[guuila]

Are you following Paul because Paul said to follow him? This is the Pied Piper syndrome.

No.

I see you are having red herring for supper tonight.

So you don't have an answer. No problem.

I am beginning to think this is the only chapter you believe of Jesus.

So you don't know how to deal with it. Okay.

Have you forgotten Jesus said to obey the commandments in order to have eternal life?

Jesus obeyed them for me. Perfectly.

Or does this not conform to the precepts of men?

No clue brah. I don't follow men.

Then I would advise you to read, understand, believe, and obey the words of the Savior Himself, instead of a mere man who proclaimed to have his own gospel.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Jesus obeyed them for me. Perfectly.

This is not what Jesus said, but of course, it would disrupt your doctrine if you took Jesus' words as He said them. Jesus told US to obey the commandments; He never said He obeyed them for us.

Did Paul tell you this? Shame on Paul.

 

[guuila]

This is not what Jesus said, but of course, it would disrupt your doctrine if you took Jesus' words as He said them. Jesus told US to obey the commandments; He never said He obeyed them for us.

Why did Jesus have to die?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Exactly. He ignores that which he cannot answer, then turns around and taunts. He cannot provide a reason why his "excuse" theology has any relevance

Outright lying isn't a good thing to do, nbf. I've repeatedly answered that there is NO relevance to your excuse theology. But that doesn't diminish the fact that your theology does provide an excuse. The Bible doesn't, however.

I never suggested there was any relevance to having a theology of excuses, as Calvinism does. In fact, much of Calvinism isn't relevant at all, and wrong.

or what the supposed excuse actually does, or accomplishes, he just throws it out there and accuses us of not being able to answer or even acknowledge this little bit of fluff, but he's sure that he has stopped Calvinism dead in its tracks with it. Bottom line, he hates Calvinism, so he feels duty-bound to oppose it, and antagonize Calvinists who don't immediately bow down at the revelation of this 'great wisdom' that he (apparently alone) has uncovered. What does he expect us to do? Stop being Calvinists, simply because of this?

Very loose translation: we can't defend our excuse theology so we'll just attack him any way we can get away with. LOL LOL

You guys crack me up!!

 

[Metal Minister]

I notice ASK keeps ignoring my post and continues with the Paul wasn't inspired stuff...

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why then, do atheists who have heard the Gospel not believe?

They have decided that God doesn't exist is why. You know, what "atheist" means.

As an atheist I had more information that the average Christian. You are therefore wrong in the above "answer".

What are you trying to prove?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I guess you think that by repeating your false premise over and over that it qualifies as an explanation. It's no more than "because I said so".

This is what I said:

Well, maybe you just aren't understanding the explanation.

But for a theology whose centerpiece is election and limited atonement, it does seem strange how much you just won't admit that not being chosen is an excuse.

Or, go ahead and face facts. In your theology, it is the REASON for being in hell. They weren't chosen.

Either way, makes no difference to me. But to deny what is so obvious is perplexing.

I can't find any evidence of "because I said so" in there. Can you help me out?

Go ahead and throw the centerpiece of your theology under the bus all you want.

But it's real funny to see Calvinists distance themselves from election and limited atonement when it isn't convenient for them to embrace it. LOL

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

This is not what Jesus said, but of course, it would disrupt your doctrine if you took Jesus' words as He said them. Jesus told US to obey the commandments; He never said He obeyed them for us.

Did Paul tell you this? Shame on Paul.

He actually told the Jews to obey the commandments.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It actually should translated "for all" or "for everything", since the immediate context is that all has been put in subjection to Him.

Uh, jf, you should have not capitalized the H in Him. v.7-8 were about mankind being over all creation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I notice ASK keeps ignoring my post and continues with the Paul wasn't inspired stuff...

Hey, MM, how come you never got back to me about that 5 question test you gave me.

How'd I do?

 

[Hammster]

This is what I said:

I can't find any evidence of "because I said so" in there. Can you help me out?

Go ahead and throw the centerpiece of your theology under the bus all you want.

But it's real funny to see Calvinists distance themselves from election and limited atonement when it isn't convenient for them to embrace it. LOL

Well, you've never given a reason why you think election gives an excuse. You just keep repeating the charge. Hence, "because I said so" is accurate.

And I haven't seen anyone distance themselves from any position. I certainly have not. All I'm doing is asking for an explanation that hasn't come yet.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Even God hating atheists according to you... as long as they believed at one time God is going to force them into heaven. Sucks to be them... free will GONE! LOL!!!!

LOL is right. First, I never said anything about God hating atheists. btw, just for your information, that phrase is internally contradicted and doesn't actually exist.

For one to be an atheist, they don't believe in God. So how can they hate what doesn't exist? Makes no sense.

And there are evidences of believers who simply lost their faith in God. That doesn't mean they hate Him or even close.

But I know that you will use words and phrases in order to paint an entirely different picture than reality, for your own agenda.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Don't forget, there will be people in hell who didn't hate God as much, but weren't smart enough to collect their Get out of Hell Free card (walk the aisle, pray a sincere prayer). They, it would seem, have an excuse.

According to Calvinism, they all sure do. They weren't chosen. And Calvinism preaches that Christ died ONLY the elect. Nobody else.

But go ahead and throw the centerpiece of your theology under the bus. LOL

 

[nobdysfool]

But I know that you will use words and phrases in order to paint an entirely different picture than reality, for your own agenda.

Like you don't have an agenda....

 

[Metal Minister]

Hey, MM, how come you never got back to me about that 5 question test you gave me.

How'd I do?

Didn't know you'd answered. Repost it, and I'll tell you.