Calvinism provides an excuse for those in hell

[crimsonleaf]

If I recall, it was you who didn't want to be called a Calvinist. There are others on this thread and forum who haven't requested any change.

It was a general agreement that in return for us not calling you the Arminian you are, you would stop labelling us Calvinists.

 

[crimsonleaf]

So we now have the truth; God has decided NOT to save those in hell.

OP confirmed.

Does God decide to save those in hell under your theology? If not, what's your point, other than to stroke FG2's ego.

 

[crimsonleaf]

The Bible states over and over, man should seek God in order to find Him. I ask, did you seek God with your whole heart in order to find Him?

I can answer that as an ex-atheist. No I didn't. He found me.

 

[crimsonleaf]

There will be angels.

You still up man?

 

[FreeGrace2]

God lucky? Hardly. It was YOU who was lucky enough to be chosen by God. Why is it so hard for you to remember your doctrine?

Some truths are "inconvenient".

 

[FreeGrace2]

Nope. It's not an excuse. Still waiting for an explanation from you, though.

Sad. It's been explained numerous times to you. Those NOT CHOSEN have that excuse.

But inconvenient truths are kinda hard to deal with, which explains all the denials we see here.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Nope. Still not an excuse.

It's the truth, but just an inconvenient one.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Because God loves them.

OK, flip side. Why are sinners in hell? I know you'll default to "because they are sinners", totally ignoring the FACT that the ones in heaven are also sinners.

So, the flip side of your answer to why sinners are in heaven being why are sinners in hell is because God doesn't love them.

Calvinism claims there is nothing intrinsic within the elect for God to love them; He just does. So, same principle for the hell dwellers; God just doesn't love them. Which is why He didn't choose them.

There is EXCUSE all over your theology, yet you simply close your eyes to it and deny it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

All this yammering about a supposed "excuse" for hell-dwellers is beyond curious, all the way to ridiculous. So what? it doesn't help them., it doesn't change anything, it doesn't impugn God's character at all.

Only in Calvinism is there any excuse for those in hell. They weren't chosen, remember? From your own theology, no less. So why do you say "supposed" when the excuse is REAL in your theology?

And I've addressed the "so what" question. The Bible teaches that no one in hell will have an excuse. The excuse only comes from Calvinism. That's the "so what".

Your theology does not line up with Scripture. So, if that's just another "so what" to you, so be it.

As far as what impugn's God character, it is your theology that claims that God's love, mercy and grace were only divvied out to a small group of mankind; to those He cherry picked, leaving everyone else to Satan's final home. Pitiful.

All from a guy who imagines himself some sort of "great crusader" against Calvinism.

It's pretty clear that your statement comes from your own wild imagination.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Can we be more accurate? There are former sinners who have been Justified, Sanctified and Glorified in Heaven, they are repentant and have faith.

Sure, we've already been quite accurate. What you point out is correct. But we all know that all men are sinners. But Calvinism's doctrines of election and limited atonement provide an excuse for those in hell. They weren't chosen for the things you have pointed out.

In Hell there are present sinners, they are not repentant and have no faith.

Not the point, and it doesn't remove the fact that Calvinism provides an excuse for those in hell.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I do believe in "all that 'election' stuff" and that God chose some for salvation and some for damnation.

Well, thanks for that! You yourself have just asffirmed the OP. Since it is God who did all that choosing, that forms the excuse for the hell dwellers.

Why wouldn't I when that's how God has revealed he has and continues to deal with his creatures in Holy Writ

Actually, not so much. In fact, not at all.

Here's what God has revealed to mankind in Holy Writ:
God loves the world in this way, to send His Son to the cross (Jn 3:16) to propitiate for the sins of the whole world (1 Jn 2:2) so that whoever (anyone who) believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

Eternal life is received through faith by grace (Eph 2:8, Jn 6:40).

There are many more passages I could share with you.

But, tell me please, where is the verse that teaches that Christ didn't die for everyone, or ONLY for the elect (limited atonement)?

And where is the verse that teaches that God chooses who will believe (election)?

Do you know any? Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You seem to be a little behind the curve here. Jesus died for those who believe.

Here's the real question for you. What verse LIMITS His death for ONLY the believers? You got one?

He didn't die to have the sins of non-believers forgiven, or they wouldn't be in hell.

I would suggest more study for you. Sins aren't forgiven by His death, if you think so. If they were, then, yes, universalism would be true. But it's not, though He did die for everyone.

How are sins forgiven? Acts 10:43 tells us quite clearly. Not from His death.

It would be unjust to punish men whose sins were forgiven. People are in hell because they are sinners, not because somebody didn't do something.

It's always a laugh when a Calvinism hides behind some idea of "unjustness" when their theology is rife with it. LOL

People are in hell, according to Calvinism's teadhings, because THEY WEREN'T CHOSEN. Period.

Your theology is ALL ABOUT who God chooses, and now you don't want to even get close to it. Interesting bit of hypocrisy.

 

[Keachian]

Sure, we've already been quite accurate. What you point out is correct. But we all know that all men are sinners. But Calvinism's doctrines of election and limited atonement provide an excuse for those in hell. They weren't chosen for the things you have pointed out.

It is incorrect to call those who have been Justified, Sanctified and Glorified sinners, they have been transformed and there is no way that they can not be in Heaven.

Not the point, and it doesn't remove the fact that Calvinism provides an excuse for those in hell.

So the fact that they (while in hell) continue in sin is of no import to the discussion of them having an "excuse"? Sure they are going to try and accuse God, but it is a baseless accusation, they continue to be at enmity with God. Your theology would have us believe that there are people in Hell who are no longer at enmity with God, is that what you're saying? Or is it that there are people in Heaven who are still at enmity with God?

 

[FreeGrace2]

And why are men in hell under your theology? Because they weren't "lucky" enough to believe.

Well, thanks again for the pleasurable opportunity to be able to correct errors from the Calvinists.

I've never said that anyone was lucky enough to believe, since everyone knows that what is believes can NEVER be by luck.

Luck becomes the issue ONLY in Calvinism where it's "eeny meeno miny mo" as to who gets chosen. Now, THAT is luck.

So your mentioning "luck" is quite funny.

I've told you many times why anyone is in hell. They didn't receive the free gift of eternal life that was available to them.

That's their excuse.

And you have no excuse for your disingenuous and silly claim.

Some of them tried to believe but couldn't.

Really? How would you know? LOL

When I was an atheist I envied Christians in their ability to believe. I remember long hours of analysis, trying to understand so that I might join them.

Only when God unexpectedly reached out to me years later did I recognise him.

So don't talk about excuses.

Your unbiblical doctrines of election and limited atonement are ALL ABOUT excuses. So don't tell me what not to talk about.

The level of denial among you Calvinists is really something to behold.

To believe or not to believe isn't a real choice until God says it is.

Ya got a verse on that, bro?

 

[FreeGrace2]

We don't believe in luck y'all.

Well, of course you have to deny that. You know, for propriety's sake.

We believe that God made his choices based on reasons only He knows.

What's real funny about that is that the Bible clearly tells us who He chooses to save. 1 Cor 1:21 is real clear. Your theology has screwed that all around to mean that He chooses who will believe.

We're not "lucky" to be saved - we're blessed. And that includes you. You should be on your knees in thanks, not patting yourself on the back for your wise decision.

Again, thanks for another wonderful opportunity to correct the errors of Calvinists. Y'all make a bunch, for sure.

First, I don't consider myself to be lucky. Not at all. But if Calvinism were correct, I would be tempted.

Second, I'm on my knees all the time for God's grace in providing His free gift of salvation for me.

Third, I've never patted myself on the back for any "wise decision", so that comment is totally off the wall, and you know it. So mentioning it only reveals your character issues.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you believe that salvation is decided by pure chance? Because we certainly don't.

What a ridiculous question! Of course not.

Whatever gave you that notion?

 

[FreeGrace2]

It was a general agreement that in return for us not calling you the Arminian you are, you would stop labelling us Calvinists.

No such thing. If was griff who didn't want to be labeled a Calvinist. I never got that request from anyone else.

One really must read all the posts if you want to keep up.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is incorrect to call those who have been Justified, Sanctified and Glorified sinners, they have been transformed and there is no way that they can not be in Heaven.

Rom 3:23 says for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

So the fact that they (while in hell) continue in sin is of no import to the discussion of them having an "excuse"?

Eh, "continue to sin"? Where do you get that bit of "insight"?

Sure they are going to try and accuse God, but it is a baseless accusation, they continue to be at enmity with God. Your theology would have us believe that there are people in Hell who are no longer at enmity with God, is that what you're saying? Or is it that there are people in Heaven who are still at enmity with God?

I've never been there, and not going, so I'm not the one to ask. But we do have a glimpse of what you ask, and it came from Jesus Himself.

Recall the story of Lazarus and the rich man? Hopefully you'll realize that Jesus wasn't giving a parable, but a real actual account of 2 people. After both died, Laz went to "Abraham's bosom", where all OT believers went, and the rich man was in "torments", where all the unbelievers went.

I'll ask you a question which will answer your own question to me.

What did the rich man request of Abraham regarding Laz?

 

[Hammster]

Sad. It's been explained numerous times to you. Those NOT CHOSEN have that excuse.

But inconvenient truths are kinda hard to deal with, which explains all the denials we see here.

I know that you think a claim is an explanation. We've tried to inform you that it's not.

But we will wait.

 

[Hammster]

It's the truth, but just an inconvenient one.

Thanks for agreeing with me finally. Now will you tell us HOW it's an excuse?