The books of Hebrews and Revelation prove the unchangeableness of God's Holy Law. (2)

[from scratch]

Good that you didn't become your neighbor. The Gospel isn't about following the leader, but about being yourself. The relationships of Christians that are truly Christian, is with their Father as they are to him, unique and quite varied. I would never want you to be like me, but I would like you to be yourself and abundantly, even free of evil, able to do your own thing, be it not enslaving you into shame or wrong. My thinking is not one for others. I am way too thorough and complicated to wish such a burden on others. My nature makes it hard for me to work at times. I force myself to be simpler and just get the job done. When I tried to figure out, for my next mission trip, what I really believed in in Christianity, it took about a year to figure out Trinity alone (I definitely don't believe in it). There are many persons who do, so why would I want them to change. Their faith is personal and between them and their Father. Each day on Earth is filled with learning and growing while enjoying the comfort of knowing and trusting in my Father. The one blessing for me, the over complicated guy, is that when you believe in something it was from doing your homework (all of it). There is sort of a peace knowing that you gave it your all to discover what you believe in. I don't care to debate, for God has accepted others that believe quite differently than myself.

The power of hope and belief is the game changer in being able to discipline ourselves, but that hope and belief has to have been cemented in permanent sincere commitment. I would suggest doing your homework. The reason that I am a follower of Christ is that I seem to have born that way, however I resisted this for many years. I don't know what doubt is, but I do know what running away is. I have heard people speak about there being no God for the reason that evil happens everywhere, but the way that I see it is that the making of a pie has to go through many changes. The apples are killed and cooked, but that is how its done. To make faith to me takes the sufferings and evils of the world with endurance holding fast to the only love and light that can exist in these circumstances, and yet to live in peace through it all. Followers of Christ do make it through without sinning and losing their faith (if they truly have heard Jesus and followed him). There are many Anti-Christians who claim Christ. They mislead people about what being a follower of Christ is. Yet, no one is perfect. I should not go on a witch hunt to condemn weak or false Christians, instead I should truly be a follower of Christ and obey him.

I wish you only a full life and the great strength of God's hope and pathway through Jesus. Be honest with yourself, just be sure that you do your homework and be quite sincere in your efforts (by the way, college instructors were wary of me in their classes, one told me to teach the class myself since I seem to know more than him (one of the by-products of doing your homework completely)). I found it best not to correct an instructor, just don't listen to them too closely.

Doing your homework is simply checking it out before accepting it. You should excel in your faith, if you have developed sincere commitments instead of just believing whatever you are told.

Yeah those in power don't like to be examined or even asked questions. They are absolute. So be a good little boy and bow becoming a robot.

I really don't understand the nature of your post. It does say some things though that aren't exactly complimentary.

 

[robinvanpersie]

Then what is the law found in verse 31 and 32?

Not sure what version you're using, but I don't see the word Law or Torah anywhere in verses 31 and 32... (English or Hebrew)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by from scratch Maybe some of it. I don't think 7:12 or 8:6-13 for instance does.

I think you're really talking about the sanctuary doctrine (used to be called the IJ) and not the sanctuary.

Originally Posted by Stryder06

I really wish you'd stop thinking I was working some type of hiden agenda. I'm am talking just about the sanctuary. If I wanted to talk about the IJ I would simply do that. The scripture says "Thy way O Lord is in the sanctuary." There's a reason why I keep saying that you should go back and study that.

Originally Posted by Rev Randy

Your agenda is not hidden.
​

You are open and clear about your agenda.
​

Not sure if that was a compliment or not

I am sure you will figure it out




.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Leuko Petra
Brother, God's New Covenant is that by His promises that He would write the Very Moral Law, The Ten Commandments, upon the heart of man, restoring him [us] to the image of God........

My you're windy. Do you live in Chicago?

I'd sure appreciate it if you'd quit calling me brother.....

At least it's buildings are still standing

Mat 7:27
And the rain did descend, and the streams came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell.
And its fall was great.'

Rev 14:8
And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great City,
because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.


Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground.






.




.

 

[Rev Randy]

Not sure if that was a compliment or not

It was a compliment even though I do not agree with your agenda. I do not find you sneeky at all. Can't say that about others who show up with various usernames and quote Ellen White then say they have not.

 

[brinny]

At least it's buildings are still standing


Mat 7:27
And the rain did descend, and the streams came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell.
And its fall was great.'

Rev 14:8
And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great City,
because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.


Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground.






.




.

ROFLOLOLOL!!!!!

 

[Rev Randy]

.




.

well.....now I know what is worn under a kilt

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

​

well.....now I know what is worn under a kilt

I would venture to guess a "thong". Perhaps I will ask 'em ehehehe




.

 

[Rev Randy]

I would venture to guess a "thong". Perhaps I will ask 'em ehehehe




.

Not in Lion heart. But I will not post that video.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not in Lion heart. But I will not post that video.

I thought about posting the u-tube scene from "Braveheart", but thought I better not

Gal 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm then! and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.





.

 

[Rev Randy]

I thought about posting the u-tube scene from "Braveheart", but thought I better not

Gal 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.





.

That was what I meant. I don't know where lion heart came from. Moons over the Peat bogs.

 

[from scratch]

Not sure what version you're using, but I don't see the word Law or Torah anywhere in verses 31 and 32... (English or Hebrew)

The covenant made with Israel is the law. So if we're talking about covenants in this sense a covenant is the law.

Verse 31 says a new covenant.

Verse 32 says not like the one already made.

Heb 8 says a new covenant based on better promises, not law.

 

[FredVB]

Ok I'll let you play that way.

Whatever it is that you let me play, I do not know what you are referencing, with saying "Please reconcile for us Mat 5:17-18 with Jeb 7:12." why not just quote what you are citing to make want you want to point out clear, which is generally good to do, as few are going to look things up anyway.

 

[FredVB]

No, no. We fully understand you believe the Christian is obligated to keep the law.

You don't show that you understand what I say at all.

 

[from scratch]

Whatever it is that you let me play, I do not know what you are referencing, with saying "Please reconcile for us Mat 5:17-18 with Jeb 7:12." why not just quote what you are citing to make want you want to point out clear, which is generally good to do, as few are going to look things up anyway.

OK I corrected an obvious typo just for you. That J was supposed to be an H. You wish to make us believe you didn't know that. I'll still let you play that way.

 

[from scratch]

You don't show that you understand what I say at all.

Either you're not clear or are saying I need to think as you do.

 

[FredVB]

The reason we have God's promise to never remember our sin stems from the obvious reason that He knows that we still sin. And, we are going to continue in sin until we're taken out of the flesh. What I wrote wasn't a 'straw-man argument'; it soundly refuted a claim you made without Biblical support.

Daniel 9:24 show that what is prophesied means there is to be fulfillment
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

And, that's the way that your post continues - filled with denials of what claims you've made, and failing to understand how Scripture addresses these claims. Just look at your own responses

There is no other 'understanding' to what Jesus plainly stated: His intent to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. I even linked the definition for the Greek pleroo rendered as 'fulfill' in Matthew 5:17 for you in a much earlier post. It passed by without comment. It conveys the message of consummating or completing the Law and the Prophets, and this same thought is found in Romans 10:4 where it says "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes". The context this comes from is a wonderful contrast between righteousness by the Law and righteousness by faith: "For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame""

I even invited you to explore the similarity between what Jesus and Paul both taught. Review my post again:

You said, "When a prophecy is fulfilled, that completes it. The prophecy is finished and no longer predicts an event in the future." That just is not true. there are a number of prophecies that had an early fulfillment and a later further fulfillment

Another account saying fulfillment means the scripture with its meaning passes away does not make it so as far as I am concerned. I can stick with Jesus who was speaking in the context of the authority, not of it ending, Matthew 5:
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Instead of perceiving how Jesus Christ plainly expressed His intent to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, you've introduced a catch-22 scenario impossible to get out of: He won't fulfill anything until after the earth melts in fervent heat. Redemption becomes a mythological concept you have not acknowledged, and you refuse to answer my questions regarding how you're legally accounted as the child of.

I found this interesting claim you made elsewhere: I am not Jewish, and do not say gentiles should become Jewish.

Now that's the ultimate straw-man: an admission that you never received the covenant Law from Mount Sinai. Your relationship is that as a Gentile estranged by the Law during its tenure, as Ephesians 2:11-16 says we were in the past tense. I provided a link for this passage; please do not ignore it again.

This remains in denial of what I explained fulfillment to mean. I think I have answered the question. In the faith of Christ, it is Christ who bore what would have been for me, and many others, of the all the sins. and as children we have his righteousness applied. What else is being asked?

Let's go ahead and look at the verses of Ephesians 2:
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

What I see in that is that gentiles are originally cut off from covenant with God, they are brought into covenant through Christ, it is of course the new covenant, Christ having the roles in the sacrifice, priesthood, and making the way to be clean. What is the problem in that?

My session online came to an end, and I only could finish answering with sending it first unfinished and coming back to edit what I had started and could only keep the work I already did on it that way.

 

[SAAN]

Jesus fulfilled the law, so all the ceremonial and sacrificial laws were abolished and done away with. If there weren't, they we should still be doing animal sacrifices, mandatory circumcisions, burnt offerings, and new moon festivals.

To say all of the original law is still in place is absolutely foolish.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jesus fulfilled the law, so all the ceremonial and sacrificial laws were abolished and done away with. If there weren't, they we should still be doing animal sacrifices, mandatory circumcisions, burnt offerings, and new moon festivals.

To say all of the original law is still in place is absolutely foolish.

And why:


http://www.christianforums.com/t7578720-60/#post58066207
The law is for dead people.

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

The law is for dead people. lol...
I think we should change the title of this thread to

"The law is for potty training....".
​

.

 

[VictorC]

Daniel 9:24 show that what is prophesied means there is to be fulfillment To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.




.



You said, "When a prophecy is fulfilled, that completes it. The prophecy is finished and no longer predicts an event in the future." That just is not true. there are a number of prophecies that had an early fulfillment and a later further fulfilment

In the uncommon cases where a prophetic statement has a dual fulfillment, the initial fulfillment doesn't completely fulfill the prophecy. However, it is an unsupported stretch to attribute this to the Law that has been fulfilled, whereby transgressions have been finished and sin isn't imputed, "for where there is no law there is no transgression" (Romans 4:15).

In some cases a prophetic utterance contains a dual period of time where it is fulfilled up to a point, and the remainder of the prophecy applies to a different time. An example of this is where Jesus claims fulfillment of Isaiah in Luke 4:17-21. The change in color below is where Jesus stops reading from Isaiah 61:1-3.

“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”

The point where God's vengeance is released and Zion is comforted doesn't take place until the second advent. But the blue above is what Jesus fulfilled when He read from this passage. Note that your argument has been to contend that the earth had to melt away before any aspect of the Law or Prophets were fulfilled, and Luke 4:21 shows how Jesus responded: "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing".

Let's go ahead and look at the verses of Ephesians 2:
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

What I see in that is that gentiles are originally cut off from covenant with God, they are brought into covenant through Christ, it is of course the new covenant, Christ having the roles in the sacrifice, priesthood, and making the way to be clean. What is the problem in that?

My session online came to an end, and I only could finish answering with sending it first unfinished and coming back to edit what I had started and could only keep the work I already did on it that way.

I'm glad you read Ephesians 2:11-16. During the tenure of the covenant from Mount Sinai, the Gentiles remained estranged from God's promise through Abraham whereby "in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed". It isn't until after that tenure had completed that God showed His salvation to the Gentiles, and God's acceptance of those who were never given the Law wasn't lost on Peter.

Acts 15
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

The believing Pharisees were proven wrong by God's power, Who has no regard for their argument to continue with the Law conveyed through Moses.