God is sovereign over human behaviour and decisions

[elman]

One fallen, finite, sinful man having control over his ideas- and trusting them - is not better than if that same man trusts the fallen, sinful ideas of another man.

You assume you are capable of judging me. You are not. You are not God. I refused to rely on the fallen sinful ideas of you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Just because it would be nice to have an instruction book on being Christian doesn't make the Bible 100% God inspired.

I know I'm jumping in the middle of this thread and haven't read all of them, but a verse comes to mind that applies to your comment:

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

Sounds very clear to me.

You're right, just because it would be nice to have an instruction book, doesn't make the Bible 100% God inspired.

But...because the Bible itself says it is, it is.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The Bible while keeping in mind the fact that it was written and translated by man with man's preconceived ideas.

Uh, no.

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

And,

2 Pet 1:20-21
20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Now, to address the OP and Skala,

Hi there again. While God is in control OVER all things, He is not in control IN all things.

If He were in control IN all things, then all that occurs is because He caused it.

If that is true, the cause of evil falls in His lap.

Further, as one of the earlier posts noted, if that were true, then whatever we do was because God controlled it.

All responsibility and accountability would be removed from the actions of mankind and angelkind.

So, it can't be true.

 

[GenetoJean]

Uh, no.

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

And,

2 Pet 1:20-21
20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Umm, no the Bible saying it is true cant be used as the source to prove all of the Bible is true.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Umm, no the Bible saying it is true cant be used as the source to prove all of the Bible is true.

Ok, no use for further discussion. Your view leads to anyone everywhere deciding for themself what they want to believe and accept in the Bible and what not to accept.

That's how the mainline denominations got to where they are today; rejecting core doctrines.

If you have no authority, other than yourself, of what is true and not true in the Bible, you've destroyed the entire Bible.

Cherry picking truth from the Bible is exactly what Satan would like humans to do!

 

[GenetoJean]

Ok, no use for further discussion. Your view leads to anyone everywhere deciding for themself what they want to believe and accept in the Bible and what not to accept.

That's how the mainline denominations got to where they are today; rejecting core doctrines.

If you have no authority, other than yourself, of what is true and not true in the Bible, you've destroyed the entire Bible.

Cherry picking truth from the Bible is exactly what Satan would like humans to do!

Believe me, I understand your point. It makes perfect sense. I just cant get past the issues I have with the Bible contradicting itself and contradicting what I see in real life. Then add to that how some Christians act claiming it is from the Bible makes me believe the Bible isnt 100% God's Word.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Believe me, I understand your point. It makes perfect sense.

Given what you say immediately following, I'm not so sure that you do.

I just cant get past the issues I have with the Bible contradicting itself and contradicting what I see in real life.

OK, here's the real problem. What you see as "contradictions" are merely poorly explained passages. But you accept that the Bible is "contradicted", so you can't believe it. There are no contradictions, though Satan and the whole liberal "christian" world would love to have you think it is.

And how does the Bible contradict what you see in real life? What do you mean?

Why do you think "real life" contradicts anything?

Then add to that how some Christians act claiming it is from the Bible makes me believe the Bible isnt 100% God's Word.

OK, here's another problem of yours. Judging the Bible on the activities of those who don't follow the Bible (in spite of claiming they do) or who more probably don't even know what it really teaches is a very poor excuse.

People don't either prove the Bible is correct or disprove the Bible. People are fallen creatures, flawed. The best anyone can do is understand what the Word teaches and follow it by means of the Holy Spirit.

From your view, how does anyone know what is true and what is false in the Bible? All your view does is grant license to "do your own thing", which leads to chaos.

If the Bible were truly contradicted, then none of it is God's Word and should be thrown out, like any other idiot book that spews false information.

If you don't accept the Bible as 100% from God and 100% true, then you should just "eat and drink, for tomorrow you're going to die". iow, it doesn't matter what you do.

With respect, it appears that Satan has deceived you, which he has done throughout the world in every age and culture. 1 Jn 5:19

If the Bible isn't 100% true, then we can't trust anything to be 100% true.

If the Bible isn't 100% true, then none of it is.

Your view only allows people to do what they darn well want.

 

[sdowney717]

Given what you say immediately following, I'm not so sure that you do.


OK, here's the real problem. What you see as "contradictions" are merely poorly explained passages. But you accept that the Bible is "contradicted", so you can't believe it. There are no contradictions, though Satan and the whole liberal "christian" world would love to have you think it is.

And how does the Bible contradict what you see in real life? What do you mean?

Why do you think "real life" contradicts anything?


OK, here's another problem of yours. Judging the Bible on the activities of those who don't follow the Bible (in spite of claiming they do) or who more probably don't even know what it really teaches is a very poor excuse.

People don't either prove the Bible is correct or disprove the Bible. People are fallen creatures, flawed. The best anyone can do is understand what the Word teaches and follow it by means of the Holy Spirit.

From your view, how does anyone know what is true and what is false in the Bible? All your view does is grant license to "do your own thing", which leads to chaos.

If the Bible were truly contradicted, then none of it is God's Word and should be thrown out, like any other idiot book that spews false information.

If you don't accept the Bible as 100% from God and 100% true, then you should just "eat and drink, for tomorrow you're going to die". iow, it doesn't matter what you do.

With respect, it appears that Satan has deceived you, which he has done throughout the world in every age and culture. 1 Jn 5:19

If the Bible isn't 100% true, then we can't trust anything to be 100% true.

If the Bible isn't 100% true, then none of it is.

Your view only allows people to do what they darn well want.

God brought the people He took out of Egypt into the promised land, but it was not that generation who He said in His Heart, they always go astray in their hearts, that is error in their understanding.
It was their children He brought forth, of who they had said that the Lord had brought them out into the desert to kill them and their little ones.

95 Oh come, let us sing to the Lord!
Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation.
2 Let us come before His presence with thanksgiving;
Let us shout joyfully to Him with psalms.
3 For the Lord is the great God,
And the great King above all gods.
4 In His hand are the deep places of the earth;
The heights of the hills are His also.
5 The sea is His, for He made it;
And His hands formed the dry land.
6 Oh come, let us worship and bow down;
Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.
7 For He is our God,
And we are the people of His pasture,
And the sheep of His hand.

Today, if you will hear His voice:
8 “Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion,
As in the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 When your fathers tested Me;
They tried Me, though they saw My work.
10 For forty years I was grieved with that generation,
And said, ‘It is a people who go astray in their hearts,
And they do not know My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’”

If you hear His voice! This passage is written to the people of God.
Now all those people saw the mighty works of God on their behalf yet they did not beleive what God had said.
With the Lord is wisdom and understanding and it is up to Him to whom He decides to share knowledge and understanding. Not all have it.

Deut 29

These are the words of the covenant which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, besides the covenant which He made with them in Horeb.

2 Now Moses called all Israel and said to them: “You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land— 3 the great trials which your eyes have seen, the signs, and those great wonders.

4 Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.

Prov 9

8 Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you;
Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.
9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser;
Teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
10 “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
11 For by me your days will be multiplied,
And years of life will be added to you.
12 If you are wise, you are wise for yourself,
And if you scoff, you will bear it alone.”

If you are wise you are wise for yourself.
Wisdom knowledge understanding is only with the Holy One, the LORD.

Prov 2

My son, if you receive my words,
And treasure my commands within you,
2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom,
And apply your heart to understanding;
3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
And lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver,
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of the Lord,
And find the knowledge of God.
6 For the Lord gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 He guards the paths of justice,
And preserves the way of His saints.
9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice,
Equity and every good path

Oh yes, the Lord is on the side of the righteous, and His ears are open to their cry. He will come to their rescue speedily, with deliverance in His hand. He will not wait long over them. He preserves the way of His saints

"And will not God surely see to it that justice is done to his chosen ones who cry out to him day and night, and will he delay toward them?"

Luke 18

18 And he told them a parable to show that they must always pray and not be discouraged, 2 saying, “There was a certain judge in a certain town who did not fear God and did not respect people. 3 And there was a widow in that town, and she kept coming to him, saying, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary!’ 4 And he was not willing for a time, but after these things he said to himself, ‘Even if I do not fear God or respect people, 5 yet because this widow is causing trouble for me, I will grant her justice, so that she does not wear me down in the end by her coming back!’”

6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unrighteous judge is saying!

7 And will not God surely see to it that justice is done to his chosen ones who cry out to him day and night, and will he delay toward them?

8 I tell you that he will see to it that justice is done for them soon! Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, then will he find faith on earth?”

 

[elman]

Ok, no use for further discussion. Your view leads to anyone everywhere deciding for themself what they want to believe and accept in the Bible and what not to accept.

That's how the mainline denominations got to where they are today; rejecting core doctrines.

If you have no authority, other than yourself, of what is true and not true in the Bible, you've destroyed the entire Bible.

Cherry picking truth from the Bible is exactly what Satan would like humans to do!

Actually the reality is those who claim to rely totally on the Bible also decide for themselves what parts of the Bible they want to believe and accept and what parts to reject and ignore. I know they all claim they do not do that, but actually they do. Everybody cherry picks including those who deny doing it. This is shown by all the disagreements among the literalists on what the Bible teaches.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Actually the reality is those who claim to rely totally on the Bible also decide for themselves what parts of the Bible they want to believe and accept and what parts to reject and ignore.

Uh, that is not totally true. I, for one, do not decide for myself what to believe. And I haven't ignored or rejected any of it.

I know they all claim they do not do that, but actually they do. Everybody cherry picks including those who deny doing it.

With respect, you are incorrect.

This is shown by all the disagreements among the literalists on what the Bible teaches.

This statement proves nothing, and is irrelevant regarding those who don't reject and ignore any of the Bible.

I don't understand why disagreements among people shade your view of the Bible.

I'm reminded of a very relevant verse:

Rom 3:3-4
3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
“That You may be justified in Your words,
And prevail when You are judged.”

The truth of Scripture does not rest on the disagreements of man.

Scripture is true regardless of what man thinks.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Uh, that is not totally true. I, for one, do not decide for myself what to believe. And I haven't ignored or rejected any of it.

With all due respect Free, who decides for you concerning what you believe?

 

[FreeGrace2]

With all due respect Free, who decides for you concerning what you believe?

I believe you misunderstood the context of what I said. I was responding to elman, who said this:

Actually the reality is those who claim to rely totally on the Bible also decide for themselves what parts of the Bible they want to believe and accept and what parts to reject and ignore.

Here is what I meant; I don't reject or ignore any parts of the Bible.

In fact, each person does decide for themselves what they believe, but that wasn't the discussion.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[elman]

Uh, that is not totally true. I, for one, do not decide for myself what to believe. And I haven't ignored or rejected any of it.


With respect, you are incorrect.


This statement proves nothing, and is irrelevant regarding those who don't reject and ignore any of the Bible.

I don't understand why disagreements among people shade your view of the Bible.

I'm reminded of a very relevant verse:

Rom 3:3-4
3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
“That You may be justified in Your words,
And prevail when You are judged.”

The truth of Scripture does not rest on the disagreements of man.

Scripture is true regardless of what man thinks.

Do you reject the verses in Kings where God sends a lying spirit from His throne to lie for Him? I believe God is truth regardless of what scripture written by men says.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

I believe you misunderstood the context of what I said. I was responding to elman, who said this:

Here is what I meant; I don't reject or ignore any parts of the Bible.

In fact, each person does decide for themselves what they believe, but that wasn't the discussion.

Sorry for any confusion.

Thank you for clarifying that Free.

 

[elman]

I believe you misunderstood the context of what I said. I was responding to elman, who said this:

Here is what I meant; I don't reject or ignore any parts of the Bible.

In fact, each person does decide for themselves what they believe, but that wasn't the discussion.

Sorry for any confusion.

Yes it was the discussion that each person decides for themselves what they believe or they piggy back on some other human being. Regardless not a single person accepts all parts of the Bible equally. Everybody rejects some things that do not fit their theology or they accept and really grab hold of what does support their theology. Every living person cherry picks and that includes those who deny doing it. Humanity is not divided into those who cherry pick and those who do not. It is only divided into those who admit to it and those who deny doing it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you reject the verses in Kings where God sends a lying spirit from His throne to lie for Him?

No, why should I reject those verses? I understand them. Do you?

I believe God is truth regardless of what scripture written by men says.

Why would you think I would reject them?

 

[elman]

No, why should I reject those verses? I understand them. Do you?


Why would you think I would reject them?

You understand them? Do you understand they are saying God lied? I don't know why you would reject them, but I reject them because I believe the scripture that says God does not lie. I believe Jesus when He said He was the truth. Can we accept that as truth and also accept that Jesus might recruit a spirit from the throne of God to lie for Him?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You understand them? Do you understand they are saying God lied? [/QUOT4E]
If you believe that God lies, then you are in serious error. Obviously you do not understand the verses you read.

I don't know why you would reject them, but I reject them because I believe the scripture that says God does not lie.

But you just in your post here SAID that those verses "say that God lied". Do you know what you post???

I believe Jesus when He said He was the truth. Can we accept that as truth and also accept that Jesus might recruit a spirit from the throne of God to lie for Him?

The truth was that the "lying spirits" wanted to deceive people, and God allowed it. That's all.

I suggest you proof read your posts before you hit the submit button.

 

[pshun2404]

The truth was that the "lying spirits" wanted to deceive people, and God allowed it. That's all.

true and if one reads the chapter (to get the context) one would have to note these alleged "prophets" were the Kings yes men and already were liars. This is like Pharaoh when God hardened his heart against Israel...pharaoh's heart was already hardened God just worked with this to His glory...likewise Nebi was already trying a few times to attack and win against Judah, but finally God just lifted His protective hand and allowed him to do so...

Paul