The books of Hebrews and Revelation prove the unchangeableness of God's Holy Law. (2)

[Keachian]

Truth is simple, error is complicated.

So you're going to renounce the IJ doctrine? After all with the above statement you've just declared it as an error

 

[Stryder06]

So you're going to renounce the IJ doctrine? After all with the above statement you've just declared it as an error

No need to renounce truth.

 

[VictorC]

So you're going to renounce the IJ doctrine? After all with the above statement you've just declared it as an error

No need to renounce truth.

Fine - then you should have no trouble finding the Investigative Judgment portrayed in Scripture. Review what Ellen wrote, so you're familiar with the doctrine:

"And, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away." Daniel 7:13, 14. The coming of Christ here described is not His second coming to the earth. He comes to the Ancient of Days in heaven to receive dominion and glory and a kingdom, which will be given Him at the close of His work as a mediator. It is this coming, and not His second advent to the earth, that was foretold in prophecy to take place at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844. Attended by heavenly angels, our great High Priest enters the holy of holies and there appears in the presence of God to engage in the last acts of His ministration in behalf of man--to perform the work of investigative judgment and to make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits. {GC 479.3}

In the typical service only those who had come before God with confession and repentance, and whose sins, through the blood of the sin offering, were transferred to the sanctuary, had a part in the service of the Day of Atonement. So in the great day of final atonement and investigative judgment the only cases considered are those of the professed people of God. The judgment of the wicked is a distinct and separate work, and takes place at a later period. "Judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel?" 1 Peter 4:17. {GC 480.1}

...

Every man's work passes in review before God and is registered for faithfulness or unfaithfulness. Opposite each name in the books of heaven is entered with terrible exactness every wrong word, every selfish act, every unfulfilled duty, and every secret sin, with every artful dissembling. Heaven-sent warnings or reproofs neglected, wasted moments, unimproved opportunities, the influence exerted for good or for evil, with its far-reaching results, all are chronicled by the recording angel. {GC 482.1}

The law of God is the standard by which the characters and the lives of men will be tested in the judgment. Says the wise man: "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment." Ecclesiastes 12:13, 14. The apostle James admonishes his brethren: "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." James 2:12 {GC 482.2}

Those who in the judgment are "accounted worthy" will have a part in the resurrection of the just. Jesus said: "They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, . . . are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." Luke 20:35, 36. And again He declares that "they that have done good" shall come forth "unto the resurrection of life." John 5:29. The righteous dead will not be raised until after the judgment at which they are accounted worthy of "the resurrection of life." Hence they will not be present in person at the tribunal when their records are examined and their cases decided. {GC 482.3}

Jesus will appear as their advocate, to plead in their behalf before God. "If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." 1 John 2:1. "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." "Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 9:24; 7:25. {GC 482.4}

As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. The Lord declared to Moses: "Whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book." Exodus 32:33. And says the prophet Ezekiel: "When the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, . . . all his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned." Ezekiel 18:24. {GC 483.1}

Here we see Ellen defining the Investigative Judgment:

• Convened only after 1844, 'it is...in 1844...to perform the work of investigative judgment'
• Addresses only the 'professed people of God', and is not a general judgment
• Convened in absentia of the accused, 'they will not be present in person'
• The accused are judged according to the old covenant, 'The law of God is the standard'
• Adventist soteriology is dependent on this alleged judgment, 'their names will be blotted out of the book of life'

Go find it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Fine - then you should have no trouble finding the Investigative Judgment portrayed in Scripture. Review what Ellen wrote, so you're familiar with the doctrine:


Here we see Ellen defining the Investigative Judgment:

• Convened only after 1844, 'it is...in 1844...to perform the work of investigative judgment'
• Addresses only the 'professed people of God', and is not a general judgment
• Convened in absentia of the accused, 'they will not be present in person'
• The accused are judged according to the old covenant, 'The law of God is the standard'
• Adventist soteriology is dependent on this alleged judgment, 'their names will be blotted out of the book of life'

Go find it.

Isn't IJ a bandaid to cover a failed prophecy?

 

[VictorC]

Isn't IJ a bandaid to cover a failed prophecy?

Yes. That is all it is - and the resulting apology for an event that never happened permeates Adventist theology more than most realize.

 

[Stryder06]

Fine - then you should have no trouble finding the Investigative Judgment portrayed in Scripture. Review what Ellen wrote, so you're familiar with the doctrine:



Here we see Ellen defining the Investigative Judgment:

• Convened only after 1844, 'it is...in 1844...to perform the work of investigative judgment'
• Addresses only the 'professed people of God', and is not a general judgment
• Convened in absentia of the accused, 'they will not be present in person'
• The accused are judged according to the old covenant, 'The law of God is the standard'
• Adventist soteriology is dependent on this alleged judgment, 'their names will be blotted out of the book of life'

Go find it.

It's in the Sanctuary.

 

[Stryder06]

Isn't IJ a bandaid to cover a failed prophecy?

Not at all. The prophecy didn't fail, it was simply misunderstood.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yes. That is all it is - and the resulting apology for an event that never happened permeates Adventist theology more than most realize.

Yes... and false prophets are typically stoned to death under the Law aren't they not?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Not at all. The prophecy didn't fail, it was simply misunderstood.

So the prophecy as presented wasn't accurately spoken?

 

[Stryder06]

Yes... and false prophets are typically stoned to death under the Law aren't they not?

There was no prophet at the time of the Great Disappointment. Just a group of people looking for the return of the Lord.

 

[VictorC]

It's in the Sanctuary.

You didn't find one solitary scrap of support for this doctrine unique to your sect.
Don't feel too bad - no one else has in the last 160+ years the SDA church has relied on this false thesis.

 

[VictorC]

Not at all. The prophecy didn't fail, it was simply misunderstood.

Yes, it failed - and that's according to the origin of the prophecy for 1844, William Miller.

"I have thus given a plain and simple statement of the manner of my arriving at the views I have inculcated, with a history of my course up to the present time. That I have been mistaken in the time, I freely confess; and I have no desire to defend my course any further than I have been actuated by pure motives, and it has resulted to God's glory. My mistakes and errors God, I trust, will forgive."

"For my indiscretions and errors, I ask pardon; and all who have spoken evil of me without cause, I freely forgive. My labors are principally ended. I shall leave to my younger brethren the task of contending for the truth. Many years I toiled alone; God has now raised up those who will fill my place. I shall not cease to pray for the spread of truth."​

Not only that, but he scathingly condemned those who:

.... "began to call the churches Babylon, and to urge that it was the duty of Adventists to come out of them."

"With this I was much grieved, as not only the effect was very bad, but I regarded it as a perversion of the word of God, - a wresting of Scripture. But the practice spread extensively; and from that time the churches, as might have been expected, were closed against us. It prejudiced many against us so that they would not listen to the truth. It created a deep feeling of hostility between Adventists and those who did not embrace the doctrine; so that most of the Adventists were separated from their respective churches."​

And in case you still don't know who these Adventists were, Miller gives more details:

"I have no confidence in any of the new theories that have grown out of that movement, viz., that Christ then came as the Bridegroom, that the door of mercy was closed, that there is no salvation for sinners, that the seventh trumpet then sounded, or that it was a fulfilment of prophecy in any sense. The spirit of fanaticism which has resulted from it, in some places, leading to extravagance and excess, I regard as of the same nature as those which [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] the reformation in Germany; and the same as have been connected with every religious movement since the first advent."

"The doctrine of annihilation and the soul's unconsciousness in death, has been connected in the minds of some with the doctrine of the Advent....

"The calling of all churches, that do not embrace the doctrine of the advent, Babylon, I before remarked, was the means of our not being listened to with candor; and also, that I regarded it as a perversion of Scripture."​

Letter from William Miller,
Low Hampton, N. Y., August 1, 1845.

 

[Sophrosyne]

There was no prophet at the time of the Great Disappointment. Just a group of people looking for the return of the Lord.

They were told by someone he was coming, and those who tell of future events and convince others of them ARE prophesizing and ARE in effect PROPHETS.

 

[Stryder06]

You didn't find one solitary scrap of support for this doctrine unique to your sect.
Don't feel too bad - no one else has in the last 160+ years the SDA church has relied on this false thesis.

I most certainly did. Sorry if you can't see it. I just told you where it is like you asked.

 

[Stryder06]

They were told by someone he was coming, and those who tell of future events and convince others of them ARE prophesizing and ARE in effect PROPHETS.

Incorrect. A prophet is called by God and does proclaim future events. This gives them credence as to Who their calling is from, but their main job is to call back a wayward people to repentence. In the case of the Cleansing of the sanctuary, no one was prophesying that. That had already been done by Daniel. William Miller, as well as a few other individual who aren't as well known for beliving this, simply followed their understanding of said prophecy and taught others about it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You didn't find one solitary scrap of support for this doctrine unique to your sect.
Don't feel too bad - no one else has in the last 160+ years the SDA church has relied on this false thesis.

Yup... too bad those adventists back then weren't of another denomination many of them wouldn't have sold everything thinking Jesus was coming in 1844. Ironic that we are being told we are less knowledgeable about prophecy by a group that was founded by people who were unable to read the bible where it says nobody knows the time Jesus is coming. A simple scripture overlooked by a church that prides itself on knowing more than the rest of us.

 

[Stryder06]

Yes, it failed - and that's according to the origin of the prophecy for 1844, William Miller.

"I have thus given a plain and simple statement of the manner of my arriving at the views I have inculcated, with a history of my course up to the present time. That I have been mistaken in the time, I freely confess; and I have no desire to defend my course any further than I have been actuated by pure motives, and it has resulted to God's glory. My mistakes and errors God, I trust, will forgive."

"For my indiscretions and errors, I ask pardon; and all who have spoken evil of me without cause, I freely forgive. My labors are principally ended. I shall leave to my younger brethren the task of contending for the truth. Many years I toiled alone; God has now raised up those who will fill my place. I shall not cease to pray for the spread of truth."
​

Not only that, but he scathingly condemned those who:

.... "began to call the churches Babylon, and to urge that it was the duty of Adventists to come out of them."

"With this I was much grieved, as not only the effect was very bad, but I regarded it as a perversion of the word of God, - a wresting of Scripture. But the practice spread extensively; and from that time the churches, as might have been expected, were closed against us. It prejudiced many against us so that they would not listen to the truth. It created a deep feeling of hostility between Adventists and those who did not embrace the doctrine; so that most of the Adventists were separated from their respective churches."
​

And in case you still don't know who these Adventists were, Miller gives more details:

"I have no confidence in any of the new theories that have grown out of that movement, viz., that Christ then came as the Bridegroom, that the door of mercy was closed, that there is no salvation for sinners, that the seventh trumpet then sounded, or that it was a fulfilment of prophecy in any sense. The spirit of fanaticism which has resulted from it, in some places, leading to extravagance and excess, I regard as of the same nature as those which [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] the reformation in Germany; and the same as have been connected with every religious movement since the first advent."

"The doctrine of annihilation and the soul's unconsciousness in death, has been connected in the minds of some with the doctrine of the Advent....

"The calling of all churches, that do not embrace the doctrine of the advent, Babylon, I before remarked, was the means of our not being listened to with candor; and also, that I regarded it as a perversion of Scripture."
​

Letter from William Miller,
Low Hampton, N. Y., August 1, 1845.

Like I said, the prophecy wasn't the problem, it was their interpretation of it that was incorrect.

 

[VictorC]

I most certainly did. Sorry if you can't see it. I just told you where it is like you asked.

It is reasonable to expect you to find support for the Investigative Judgment in Scripture, which is what I asked you to provide. The reason others "can't see it" is for the simple reason you didn't provide a single solitary scrap of support. You didn't even try.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Incorrect. A prophet is called by God and does proclaim future events. This gives them credence as to Who their calling is from, but their main job is to call back a wayward people to repentence. In the case of the Cleansing of the sanctuary, no one was prophesying that. That had already been done by Daniel. William Miller, as well as a few other individual who aren't as well known for beliving this, simply followed their understanding of said prophecy and taught others about it.

Not all prophets are called by God..... false prophets are out there just as God's prophets are. the way to discern if they are from God is if their prophecies come true or not and are sound biblical prophecies. Adventists from the start were dupes believing Jesus was coming at that time. I contend the spirit that duped them in the beginning is still wandering around the church deceiving people when it comes to prophecy.

 

[VictorC]

Like I said, the prophecy wasn't the problem, it was their interpretation of it that was incorrect.

Notice that it was William Miller who busted your premise, and not me.