Global warming and the end

[eclipsenow]

I've never heard anyone on Fox news talk about "global warming"/"climate change" as the wrath of God. You are badly mistaken.

You know that I meant the 1970's 'they predicted an ice age' sham.

There is no global warming. It was proven to be a scam.

Proven by who? I haven't seen any proof here.

Yes, we've been in the tribulation since the desolation of Israel about 2000 years ago. Jesus said so and he also said that it will be cut short for the sake of the elect, followed by cosmic disturbances involved in the wrath of God as described in the prophesies of God.

Well, we appear closer in theology in some areas than I would have thought. However, as Jesus fulfilled the prophesies of God, I'm not sure which specific 'predictions' you are referring to? Probably Revelation, which you probably see as some kind of timetable for the end of the world. If that's the case, it makes it irrelevant to everyone who lived before it. I see it as symbolically describing certain common themes of God's judgment and ultimate victory over a sinful world, and that although persecuted, the church will never completely disappear. You probably see it as a prescribed, predicted timetable of events starting to unfold now. If that's the case, what good has it been to the church for the last 2000 years?

 

[Biblewriter]

You know that I meant the 1970's 'they predicted an ice age' sham.


Proven by who? I haven't seen any proof here.

Plenty of proof has been presented here. But you simply refuse to admit it.

 

[eclipsenow]

Plenty of proof has been presented here. But you simply refuse to admit it.

Yeah, a list of rubbish numbers that could have come from anywhere, and a map of Terra Australis including a very convincing top of Australia. That's all you've given me!

But look what those who accept the normal peer-reviewed, demonstrable, consistent climate science have got on their side! Hmm, tough choice: some guy on the internet who pushes Terra Australis and anonymous numbers, or the top 4 temperature datasets on the planet. Tough choice!

 

[eclipsenow]

No, I remember being taught about the coming ice age in elementary school!

Do you really think your elementary school teacher might have been teaching from some popular media release she saw? Do you really think she represented the trained climate community?

Seriously, go and check the data. Find me all those peer-reviewed studies on ice-ages you're so convinced are out there. I can't find them. They don't exist. There were only a few climatologists arguing how far Global Dimming might spread, and how serious it might be, and they have since recanted. They didn't like being wrong, but who does? I saw one of the main protagonists interviewed. You're simply wrong: the media headlines grabbed the sensationalist headline "Ice age commeth!" and ran with it like so many false prophets do here with whacky end-times stuff. But the reality was the majority of climate scientists calculated on warming!

If you don't believe me, please explain this Bell Science Hour show from 1958!!!

This is 2 minutes of youtube you've just GOT to see! (You two Biblewriter).

Climate Change 1958: The Bell Telephone Science Hour - YouTube

I suppose Al Gore was in on the conspiracy even back in 1958?

 

[eclipsenow]

The devil has been working on his lie for quite awhile now.

There is no coming ice age. There is no "global warming".

The Denialists have been working on your mind for quite a while now. There is no coming ice age. There really is global warming.

(Seriously, when are you going to learn to use evidence and not just repeatedly assert stuff, as if that somehow constituted a game-changing argument? )

There is, so nyer nyer nyah nyah nya, nyah!

(Just counter-asserting your assertion. I can use really large letters or bold or colours if that helps counter-assert?)

 

[hdssh]

I am disturbed at the polarization on climate change, but not surprised. Coming from a non-developed nation I am acutely aware of the dangers of arguing from a place of comfort.

At the heart of the matter is relational responsibility, and before God this leads to our accountability. It is not about what we want to have happen, it's about what is happening. Appeals to authority on about what is true is to say I can't think for myself.

The reality is that there is a wealth of climate change evidence that cannot be explained other than by human induced global change. So why do we hide from it.

 

[eclipsenow]

I am disturbed at the polarization on climate change, but not surprised. Coming from a non-developed nation I am acutely aware of the dangers of arguing from a place of comfort.

At the heart of the matter is relational responsibility, and before God this leads to our accountability. It is not about what we want to have happen, it's about what is happening. Appeals to authority on about what is true is to say I can't think for myself.

The reality is that there is a wealth of climate change evidence that cannot be explained other than by human induced global change. So why do we hide from it.

Because apparently Americans perceive ANY government taxation, other than to pay their military to keep them 'safe' (when they seem to need to be kept safe from themselves!), is communism. If you try to give them a Medicare at about a quarter of the efficiency of Australia's, then they scream "Obamacare is COMMUNISM!" They have no concept that taxation rates are only 1% more here in Australia, yet we have a more functional welfare state and longer lifespans for less money. (Yes, LESS healthcare dollars per unit GDP! Americans spend all their taxation money on their military!)

So, with a paranoid 'reds under the bed' mindset still suffering from McCarthyism, they seem allergic to anything that might let the government even tinker with their holy of holies, the marketplace. They're paranoid and afraid and let this fear motivate them into all manner of illogical conspiracy theories.

And it's FUNDED! If there IS a conspiracy, it is AGAINST climate science!

Check this short video out.

The Koch Brothers & Their Amazing Climate Change Denial Machine - YouTube

 

[Biblewriter]

I am disturbed at the polarization on climate change, but not surprised. Coming from a non-developed nation I am acutely aware of the dangers of arguing from a place of comfort.

At the heart of the matter is relational responsibility, and before God this leads to our accountability. It is not about what we want to have happen, it's about what is happening. Appeals to authority on about what is true is to say I can't think for myself.

The reality is that there is a wealth of climate change evidence that cannot be explained other than by human induced global change. So why do we hide from it.

I do not argue from "a place of comfort." I argue from my knowledge of science, and from my knowledge of the fraud that accompanies many claims about "science," including the claims about this supposed climate change evidence.

See instead, this report about the Arctic currently experiencing the shortest summer on record.

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/08...zing-this-year-there-was-less-than-half-that/

 

[Zanting]

God Bless you eclipsenow...And I pray for His guidance for you...for me...and all Gods people. We are living in very troubled times and we all need Gods blessings.

 

[eclipsenow]

I do not argue from "a place of comfort." I argue from my knowledge of science, and from my knowledge of the fraud that accompanies many claims about "science," including the claims about this supposed climate change evidence.

See instead, this report about the Arctic currently experiencing the shortest summer on record.

North Pole Sees Unprecedented July Cold – Arctic Sees Shortest Summer On Record — ‘Normally the high Arctic has about 90 days above freezing. This year there was less than half that’ | Climate Depot

Who was it who was telling us about their submarine tour that broke through North Pole ice in the 1950's to try and 'prove' that the ice was always thin? Ha! Just funny. The thick ice was there, but occasionally breaks and separates and then the area between freezes over, creating something called a 'lead.' Leads have always been a normal part of Arctic ice, and acting any different just shows ignorance of Arctic behaviour. However, there's something new. Because it's so hot up there and there's such record thin ice (low amounts of multi-year ice), we are seeing record leads!

Arctic Ice Breaks Up in Beaufort Sea - YouTube

So, Biblewriter, you go ahead and promote obscure doomer 'ice age commeth' websites that misread the data. The rest of us will stick with the real world of shrinking arctic ice and warmer Arctic temperatures. You're feeling it already in North America. Record warmth over the Arctic means record LOW temperature differentials that make the jet stream meander in lazy, wide patterns across North America. So while the rest of your continent bakes in record hot temperatures, and dry patches hit your bread baskets, and more and more people die in heatwaves and storms with more and more power (Sandy), occasionally, just occasionally, the extra energy in a complex global climate will dump extra snow across North America. A warmer world with a chaotic climate CAN result in little eddies of super cold when the jet stream is not as tightly trapped in place by higher temperature differences between the Arctic and Equator. So, in summary, a HOTTER Arctic can sometimes mean COLDER North America. Get used to it.

 

[Biblewriter]

So, Biblewriter, you go ahead and promote obscure doomer 'ice age commeth' websites that misread the data.

Actually, I never, even once, so much as mentioned that, as far as I can remember.

The rest of us will stick with the real world of shrinking arctic ice and warmer Arctic temperatures. You're feeling it already in North America. Record warmth over the Arctic means record LOW temperature differentials that make the jet stream meander in lazy, wide patterns across North America. So while the rest of your continent bakes in record hot temperatures, and dry patches hit your bread baskets, and more and more people die in heatwaves and storms with more and more power (Sandy), occasionally, just occasionally, the extra energy in a complex global climate will dump extra snow across North America. A warmer world with a chaotic climate CAN result in little eddies of super cold when the jet stream is not as tightly trapped in place by higher temperature differences between the Arctic and Equator. So, in summary, a HOTTER Arctic can sometimes mean COLDER North America. Get used to it.

So when you see an article about record cols at the north pole, and you see this as proof that the Arctic is warming?????

I am through with this nonsense.

 

[eclipsenow]

Actually, I never, even once, so much as mentioned that, as far as I can remember.

Then don't quote reports when you haven't traced where they go back to?

So when you see an article about record cols at the north pole, and you see this as proof that the Arctic is warming?????

I assume you mean record 'cold temperatures' instead of record cols, and no, I don't see that as an article supporting this.

NASA's analysis of Earth's surface temperature found that 2012 ranked as the ninth-warmest year since 1880. NASA scientists at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) compare the average global temperature each year to the average from 1951 to 1980. This 30-year period provides a baseline from which to measure the warming Earth has experienced due to increasing atmospheric levels of heat-trapping greenhouse gases. While 2012 was the ninth-warmest year on record, all 10 of the warmest years in the GISS analysis have occurred since 1998, continuing a trend of temperatures well above the mid-20th century average. The record dates back to 1880 because that is when there were enough meteorological stations around the world to provide global temperature data. (NASA Press Release, 1/15/2013).
Arctic Change: Global - Global Temprature Trends

 

[hdssh]

I do not argue from "a place of comfort." I argue from my knowledge of science, and from my knowledge of the fraud that accompanies many claims about "science," including the claims about this supposed climate change evidence.

Ah: I'm not disagreeing on the reality of climate change ... I am highly concerned. I am actually pointing a finger at deniers who, I argue, are threatened by their comfort being disturbed by climate change

My argument unpacked here:
hdssh.weebly.com/1/post/2013/08/is-this-the-face-of-stupidity.html

 

[Biblewriter]

Ah: I'm not disagreeing on the reality of climate change ... I am highly concerned. I am actually pointing a finger at deniers who, I argue, are threatened by their comfort being disturbed by climate change

My argument unpacked here:
hdssh.weebly.com/1/post/2013/08/is-this-the-face-of-stupidity.html

Argue with this "peer reviewed" report issued by EARS Earth Environment Monitoring, Ltd.

Meteosat Derived Planetary Temperature Trend 1982-2006 - Energy & Environment - Volume 24, Number 3 - 4 / June 2013 - Multi Science Publishing

The key quotation from this report is:

"Our observations point to a decrease in planetary temperature over almost the entire hemisphere, most likely due to an increase of cloudiness."

Again, check out the following report showing no trend in US July temperatures since records began in 1895:

http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/08/03/no-trend-in-us-july-temperatures-since-1895/

 

[eclipsenow]

Ah: I'm not disagreeing on the reality of climate change ... I am highly concerned. I am actually pointing a finger at deniers who, I argue, are threatened by their comfort being disturbed by climate change

Yep! You got it in one. They're worried about their 'economy'. It's their god. They'll burn endless quantities of cheap coal to get a tiny marginal increase in economic performance, when a tiny increase in costs would see America powering itself for 500 years on the nuclear waste they ALREADY have trouble storing. They'd solve their nuclear waste problem AND solve energy security needs (which is really a national security need when one considers the geopolitics of oil) AND solve climate change all in one hit if they just started rolling GenIV nuclear reactors like GE's S-PRISM off the production line. (They're modular, and so can be mass produced like cars, bringing the price right down!) Eat up nuclear waste, solve climate change, and prevent wasting billions in Yucca Mountain. It's win win win.

My argument unpacked here:
hdssh.weebly.com/1/post/2013/08/is-this-the-face-of-stupidity.html

Too right, but you won't see this mob admitting it. They'd rather believe that 500 year old maps of Terra Australis (with a cool little bit of the top of Australia mapped in,... I never knew that detail about these old maps!) actually show an ice-free Antarctica.
When they'd rather believe that old map disproves climate science than accept the peer-reviewed findings of every decent atmospheric physics lab / climate lab on the planet, or they'd rather believe in conspiracy theories than accept the IPCC which was run by a Christian for the first part of its life, then what hope have we got? They're programmed so strongly by their fears of anything interrupting their precious lifestyle that they can just filter reality out. It gets in the way.

 

[eclipsenow]

Argue with this "peer reviewed" report issued by EARS Earth Environment Monitoring, Ltd.

Meteosat Derived Planetary Temperature Trend 1982-2006 - Energy & Environment - Volume 24, Number 3 - 4 / June 2013 - Multi Science Publishing

The key quotation from this report is:

"Our observations point to a decrease in planetary temperature over almost the entire hemisphere, most likely due to an increase of cloudiness."

Again, check out the following report showing no trend in US July temperatures since records began in 1895:

No Trend In US July Temperatures Since 1895 | Real Science

Hi mate,
We'll find out at the end of the season, but for now the ice is still melting right on the edge of the most extreme standard deviation. Only last year was worse, it would seem. So maybe the air is slightly cooler than last year, but the sea water under seems to be melting as usual.

Call me out on it when the sea ice recovers most of it's multiyear thickness!

http://climatecrock.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/nsidc720.jpg?w=480&h=384

 

[Biblewriter]

Hi mate,
We'll find out at the end of the season, but for now the ice is still melting right on the edge of the most extreme standard deviation. Only last year was worse, it would seem. So maybe the air is slightly cooler than last year, but the sea water under seems to be melting as usual.

Call me out on it when the sea ice recovers most of it's multiyear thickness!

http://climatecrock.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/nsidc720.jpg?w=480&h=384

Oh! By the way, is your source "peer reviewed"?

 

[eclipsenow]

The thing I find rather inconsistent (but predictable and hilarious) about denialists is that they constantly trash peer-reviewed science with "Oh, the CONSPIRACY! The all powerful conspiracy! Don't trust their data! It's all a sham!" but the MOMENT they see one tiny little bit of data that indicates a tiny, inconsequential cooling trend, they should "Oooooh, look, finally, some science we can TRUST!"

It's as obvious as the Denial on their faces. They only see what they want to see. If peer-reviewed science is so corrupted and evil, why are they so keen to trust it when it tells them what they want? Did the all powerful forces of "The Conspiracy" suddenly FAIL for 5 minutes? Did they suddenly detect in their crystal ball that "The Conspiracy" was weak at this point, and we have real fair-dinkum (Aussie expression) SCIENCE before us? How do they know? What if "The Conspiracy" was just injecting some noise into the data to convince the more thoughtful that this was, well and truly, a confusing and difficult science, and that lay people should just trust the experts? Sillier things have happened in the name of counter-intelligence! In WW2 they put Patton in charge of guarding a bunch of rubber tanks. How do the Denialists suddenly KNOW, with such clarity and passion, that the sciencey graphs they quote are true, THIS TIME?

This is how inconsistent the whole Denialist meme really is.

What was that about scratching ears that only hear what they want to hear?

 

[Biblewriter]

The thing I find rather inconsistent (but predictable and hilarious) about denialists is that they constantly trash peer-reviewed science with "Oh, the CONSPIRACY! The all powerful conspiracy! Don't trust their data! It's all a sham!" but the MOMENT they see one tiny little bit of data that indicates a tiny, inconsequential cooling trend, they should "Oooooh, look, finally, some science we can TRUST!"

It's as obvious as the Denial on their faces. They only see what they want to see. If peer-reviewed science is so corrupted and evil, why are they so keen to trust it when it tells them what they want? Did the all powerful forces of "The Conspiracy" suddenly FAIL for 5 minutes? Did they suddenly detect in their crystal ball that "The Conspiracy" was weak at this point, and we have real fair-dinkum (Aussie expression) SCIENCE before us? How do they know? What if "The Conspiracy" was just injecting some noise into the data to convince the more thoughtful that this was, well and truly, a confusing and difficult science, and that lay people should just trust the experts? Sillier things have happened in the name of counter-intelligence! In WW2 they put Patton in charge of guarding a bunch of rubber tanks. How do the Denialists suddenly KNOW, with such clarity and passion, that the sciencey graphs they quote are true, THIS TIME?

This is how inconsistent the whole Denialist meme really is.

What was that about scratching ears that only hear what they want to hear?

My point was not that I believed this because it was "peer reviewed." My point was that you were suddenly reversing your standard position. You constantly reject the facts we point out because they supposedly are not "peer reviewed." But the moment a "peer reviewed" article comes out that points out a fact that goes against your favorite theory, you answered with "facts" that were not "peer reviewed."

So I am not the one who changed my stand. You are.

 

[usexpat97]

Threads like these make me want to ask the mods to merge the Eschatology board with Christian Current Affairs. There's no need to pick apart Scriptures looking for horns and grasshoppers and red heifers now. Just look right out the window and turn on the news. And watching it all unfold is about as fulfilling as sitting with the doctor finding out the day you're going to die & how.