Feminism viewed from a Christian perspective: Good? Bad? Something else?

[Joykins]

God's word filtered through sometimes-sexist people, yes. And people who justified genocide and slavery as well.

 

[RealFaith]

God's word filtered through sometimes-sexist people, yes. And people who justified genocide and slavery as well.

So you don't believe the Bible is God's word?

 

[Joykins]

what part of God's word filtered through all-too-fallible humans DON'T you understand?

 

[RealFaith]

what part of God's word filtered through all-too-fallible humans DON'T you understand?

So you believe the Bible is God's word but it has been corrupted by fallible humans?

 

[Trailltrader]

G-d by definition would have to be sexist. He created both sex's right? Consider how much different the world would be if we reproduced like amoeba's. We'd get so old, then split down the middle and we'd never die except by poison, fire, or something along that line.

 

[mandyangel]

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God --- I Corinthians 11:3

Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression ---
I Timothy 2:11-14

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. --- Ephesians 5:22-24

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. --- I Corinthians 14:34-35

For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. --- I Corinthians 11:8-9

A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed.
--- Ecclesiastes 26:14

 

[PersephonesTear]

Not true! I don't really want an endless debate on this because it just goes round in circles. Let the word of God be the authority:

Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel (1 Peter 3:7)

This is so obviously speaking about physical strength - not mental, emotional, or spiritual strength.

 

[RealFaith]

This is so obviously speaking about physical strength - not mental, emotional, or spiritual strength.

Prove it.

 

[mandyangel]

Women are physical in their sexuality. Men are physical in their strength.

 

[ValleyGal]

Mandyangel, you are correct in the verses you post. But here's the thing. Men are told (in different words) that they also need to submit to women, that they need to love their wives like Christ loves the church (a whole study in itself!), and all kinds of other things that make the marriage (and all interactions between men and women) equal. You can quote all those verses and more, and it still would not negate other verses like Eph 5:21, 1 Pe 1:22, Hbr 10:24, Phl 2:3. Just because someone is our spouse does not mean we treat them any differently - they are still our brother/sister in Christ. In fact, we should love a spouse even greater than we love other brothers and sisters in Christ.

In addition, remember that all those verses need to be taken in context - immediate context of the book they are in, as well as the whole context of the Bible, removing cultural anomalies.

 

[Joykins]

So you believe the Bible is God's word but it has been corrupted by fallible humans?

I don't believe you can remove the human author from any written thing, however inspired it may be.

 

[Joykins]

G-d by definition would have to be sexist. He created both sex's right? Consider how much different the world would be if we reproduced like amoeba's. We'd get so old, then split down the middle and we'd never die except by poison, fire, or something along that line.

Sexual reproduction and sexism aren't the same thing.

 

[Joykins]

For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. --- I Corinthians 11:8-9

Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

 

[mandyangel]

Mandyangel, you are correct in the verses you post. But here's the thing. Men are told (in different words) that they also need to submit to women, that they need to love their wives like Christ loves the church (a whole study in itself!), and all kinds of other things that make the marriage (and all interactions between men and women) equal. You can quote all those verses and more, and it still would not negate other verses like Eph 5:21, 1 Pe 1:22, Hbr 10:24, Phl 2:3. Just because someone is our spouse does not mean we treat them any differently - they are still our brother/sister in Christ. In fact, we should love a spouse even greater than we love other brothers and sisters in Christ.

In addition, remember that all those verses need to be taken in context - immediate context of the book they are in, as well as the whole context of the Bible, removing cultural anomalies.

Well the topic were discussing is feminism and those very important scriptures tell us that feminism is not only wrong but also unbiblical and contrary to the word of God. Believe me, I know these scriptures and their "context" through and through. But I also know that the Bible means exactly what it says (call me a fundamentalist).

When I was a kid my father did not allow me or my sisters to speak in Church, now when I was a little girl I didn't understand why my brothers could and we couldn't but now I do get it. My dad was very strict with us to make sure we were living our lives in accordance with these scriptures.

IMO women need to stop trying to lead and be supportive of men trying to become leaders. Leaders are to be men and supporters are to be women. When we take all this stuff out of order, things start to go wrong in society. Which is why we are in so much trouble and need to return to the legal principles laid out in the Bible.

 

[ValleyGal]

Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

QFT
In the NT, we are also told that in Christ there is neither male nor female - we are all created in God's image; therefore, how can one gender be superior? God is not divided that he has part superior over the other parts. But the Bible says he humbled himself and became a man....

 

[Trailltrader]

In addition, remember that all those verses need to be taken in context - immediate context of the book they are in, as well as the whole context of the Bible, removing cultural anomalies.

Christ chose those cultural anomalies for a reason- that's why he waited 400 years between the time of the last prophet and the time of his birth to make sure everything was exactly what he needed to be most effective.

May I gently and lovingly remind you of the curse's in Revelation chapter 22 about adding or removing from G-ds word? It seems that removing cultural anomalies would fall into that category wouldn't it?

 

[ValleyGal]

Christ chose those cultural anomalies for a reason- that's why he waited 400 years between the time of the last prophet and the time of his birth to make sure everything was exactly what he needed to be most effective.

May I gently and lovingly remind you of the curse's in Revelation chapter 22 about adding or removing from G-ds word? It seems that removing cultural anomalies would fall into that category wouldn't it?

Not at all. Taking God's word in cultural context is imperative to understanding how we can apply his word in every culture across time. We do not live in that culture, so when specific things are being addressed in Paul's letters, it is to that church in that time. For example, we do not have a problem with women chatting during church services, so the instruction for women to not talk in church was directed to those women at that time. We don't live like they did 2000+ years ago, and we shouldn't. Living in that culture is not a command. But we take those principles - that we learn in quiet submission to God - and we can certainly apply it to today's culture. But the principle applies to everyone, not just women. It is just as rude for men to chat in church as it is for women, for example.

I am not adding or taking away from the Word. I'm making sure it is applied to all people through all time and all cultures. Context matters.

As for the 400 years....well, it had nothing to do with using the culture of the time aside from using the Roman practice of tortuous death on the cross. But we don't do that today, nor should we. The 400 years is another thing altogether. After all, there was also 400 years that Israel remained in slavery in Egypt. That had nothing to do with the culture of the time.

 

[RealFaith]

I don't believe you can remove the human author from any written thing, however inspired it may be.

So do you believe the Bible is God's word?

 

[ValleyGal]

So do you believe the Bible is God's word?

God used human beings to pen the Bible. Human input is definitely apparent when you read the literary styles. For example, Luke was a physician, and his writing style reflected his observance of the natural world and he speaks more of a healing context (Jesus healing, etc). John was a master at spiritualizing everything, so this comes out in his literary style as well. Paul had a very distinctive style apart from John. All the prophets had literary styles different from Solomon. Moses had a different literary style than Jude.

It was penned over several thousand years by various authors. Just because something is inspired of God doesn't mean that the person he's inspiring is removed from that equation. In fact, I think he chose certain people for this task for very specific reasons - one of them just to show you that all of it is God, but human involvement is evident.

 

[RealFaith]

God used human beings to pen the Bible. Human input is definitely apparent when you read the literary styles. For example, Luke was a physician, and his writing style reflected his observance of the natural world and he speaks more of a healing context (Jesus healing, etc). John was a master at spiritualizing everything, so this comes out in his literary style as well. Paul had a very distinctive style apart from John. All the prophets had literary styles different from Solomon. Moses had a different literary style than Jude.

It was penned over several thousand years by various authors. Just because something is inspired of God doesn't mean that the person he's inspiring is removed from that equation. In fact, I think he chose certain people for this task for very specific reasons - one of them just to show you that all of it is God, but human involvement is evident.

Yes, the Bible tells us that all Scripture is God-breathed. The apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit and were qualified to write down God's word.