Feminism viewed from a Christian perspective: Good? Bad? Something else?

[RealFaith]

What is wrong with a guy whistling at you? I'd take that's a compliment. I don't profess to hold authority over men and I wouldn't want to. In God's kingdom, men have power and authority over us as they should on earth. It's not our place to hold positions of high power. We should focus on what were meant here to do and its nothing to do with where feminists have taken us. JMHO

I don't believe that a man whistling at a woman is oppressive, but I do think it is annoying. I do think that men often make buffoons out of themselves. All this whistling and staring whenever they see an attractive woman. If I had a wife I wouldn't want her to have to deal with this every time she went out.

Peace

 

[mandyangel]

I don't believe that a man whistling at a woman is oppressive, but I do think it is annoying. I do think that men often make buffoons out of themselves. All this whistling and staring whenever they see an attractive woman. If I had a wife I wouldn't want her to have to deal with this every time she went out.

Peace

I've had it happen to me a few times when I'm rollerblading with my friends, its actually really sweet and makes me feel good, but it depends on the guy doing it and the circumstance. I wouldn't want it to happen at church but when I'm just out with my gfs on the beach or something sunbathing then theres nothing wrong with it imo.

 

[Mairie]

Marine, all I was saying is you're comparing being whistled at vs. men getting the tar beaten out of them in divorce court. You're comparing apples to oranges. Now if you're looking at the whole world may I gently and lovingly remind you that this whole planet has been turned over to satan? So of course its going to be screwed up

No, I originally brought up the issue of rape, abuse and violence against women and you blew it off by saying that a) women are taking all the jobs, b) women falsely accuse men of rape, and c) men's wallets get "raped" in divorce court. You're right, they are apples and oranges. You keep refusing to acknowledge the apples while squeezing the orange juice into my eyes and forcing me to eat the peels. I get it. Divorce court is a nightmare. So is being sexually abused. You and no one else in this thread has any right to suggest that it's not a big deal, which is all I'm getting out of this conversation.

Just because Satan rules the world doesn't mean we, the church, don't have any responsibility in it. Exactly the opposite--we are called to bring the kingdom here to earth.

 

[mandyangel]

No, I originally brought up the issue of rape, abuse and violence against women and you blew it off by saying that a) women are taking all the jobs, b) women falsely accuse men of rape, and c) men's wallets get "raped" in divorce court. You're right, they are apples and oranges. You keep refusing to acknowledge the apples while squeezing the orange juice into my eyes and forcing me to eat the peels. I get it. Divorce court is a nightmare. So is being sexually abused. You and no one else in this thread has any right to suggest that it's not a big deal, which is all I'm getting out of this conversation.

Just because Satan rules the world doesn't mean we, the church, don't have any responsibility in it. Exactly the opposite--we are called to bring the kingdom here to earth.

Rape has nothing to do with this, that is a crime and completely separate issue. Speaking of divorce court, if the Bible tells us that divorce is wrong, then anything going on in "divorce court" is NOT bringing God's kingdom to earth. Women are supposed to be nurturing, supporting, loving, and beautiful because we are for men we aren't supposed to be trying to beat them in jobs or hold power over them but just the opposite. Men are the real victims of feminism and its up to Christian women to try to reverse that because we know the truth as it is in God's kingdom.

 

[Mairie]

Where in the WORLD did I say divorce court is bringing God's kingdom to earth?? Please read that again. . Also, women are not FOR men. We are humans created for God just like men were, completely equal to men. If anyone told you differently, I am so very sorry.

And I think that last thought is enough. This conversation is going in circles and is completely unproductive. I just don't have time in the day to battle the archaic sexism crawling out of the woodworks.

 

[mandyangel]

Where in the WORLD did I say divorce court is bringing God's kingdom to earth?? Please read that again. . Also, women are not FOR men. We are humans created for God just like men were, completely equal to men. If anyone told you differently, I am so very sorry.

And I think that last thought is enough. This conversation is going in circles and is completely unproductive. I just don't have time in the day to battle the archaic sexism crawling out of the woodworks.

We are not completely equal to men, the Bible says God is the head of man and man is the head of woman. Its something that my dad had to teach me and my sisters for a long time until we finally got it.

 

[RealFaith]

Rape has nothing to do with this, that is a crime and completely separate issue. Speaking of divorce court, if the Bible tells us that divorce is wrong, then anything going on in "divorce court" is NOT bringing God's kingdom to earth. Women are supposed to be nurturing, supporting, loving, and beautiful because we are for men we aren't supposed to be trying to beat them in jobs or hold power over them but just the opposite. Men are the real victims of feminism and its up to Christian women to try to reverse that because we know the truth as it is in God's kingdom.

Amen! Finally a Christian lady who sees through the feminist agenda. What a breath of fresh air. You are 100% right in what you say. I'll tell you a secret, if you don't already know: Feminism was instigated by the Rockefeller family. I think it was Nick Rockefeller who admitted that the Rockefeller family funded feminism in the 1960's for a variety of reasons: 1. To get women into work so that the female population could be taxed; 2. To get children in schools at an early age so that the state could own the children instead of the parents; 3. To create a battle of the sexes to help break up marriage and family. Look up on the internet "How the Rockefellers re-engineered women."

Feminism cloaks itself with equality, which is just a smoke screen. Satan--the prince of lies--wanted equality or authority over God. Feminism does absolutely nothing to bring women closer to men. It is ugly. But sadly a great number of Christian women are pro feminism.

The truth is that most men, with the exception of a few bad ones, have a desire to love and protect a good woman. But when men feel they are no longer needed and they see women competing with them in the workforce, it is a complete turn off. But when a woman opposes feminism and stands up for men, it is very attractive. A godly woman who believes in submission and opposes feminism makes men want to love and protect them all the more. But when a woman is a feminist, I find it very ugly and off-putting.

I wish every woman was like you. You are a rose without a thorn. God bless you sister.

 

[mandyangel]

Amen! Finally a Christian lady who sees through the feminist agenda. What a breath of fresh air. You are 100% right in what you say. I'll tell you a secret, if you don't already know: Feminism was instigated by the Rockefeller family. I think it was Nick Rockefeller who admitted that the Rockefeller family funded feminism in the 1960's for a variety of reasons: 1. To get women into work so that the female population could be taxed; 2. To get children in schools at an early age so that the state could own the children instead of the parents; 3. To create a battle of the sexes to help break up marriage and family. Look up on the internet "How the Rockefellers re-engineered women."

Feminism cloaks itself with equality, which is just a smoke screen. Satan--the prince of lies--wanted equality or authority over God. Feminism does absolutely nothing to bring women closer to men. It is ugly. But sadly a great number of Christian women are pro feminism.

The truth is that most men, with the exception of a few bad ones, have a desire to love and protect a good woman. But when men feel they are no longer needed and they see women competing with them in the workforce, it is a complete turn off. But when a woman opposes feminism and stands up for men, it is very attractive. A godly woman who believes in submission and opposes feminism makes men want to love and protect them all the more. But when a woman is a feminist, I find it very ugly and off-putting.

I wish every woman was like you. You are a rose without a thorn. God bless you sister.

Thankyou so much for your kind words. I know feminists and every time me or my gfs have come in contact with them, its ended badly... they have personally attacked me for off the wall things like wearing a bikini for instance.

I am glad that my father taught me and my sisters the right way to be a lady because I feel that with the times we are going through now, we need to be armed with the truth and God. I can never understand feminists not for a lack of trying but because its illogical, like why would a feminist be for abortion when you are aborting HALF of the new baby girls coming into life.

Why would they be against somebody like Carrie Prejean for staying strong and saying what she really believes. I learned a lot from Carrie Prejean and her book "Still Standing" is like my second Bible, she is right in everything she says and has taught me a lot about the feminist agenda. I recommend the book to everybody. Also, Glenn Beck has exposed the feminist plot as well. Thankyou again for supporting me.

 

[PersephonesTear]

I'm not talking about the Middle East, I'm talking about the West. Family courts oppress ALL men who have a family. The reason God put men in charge is because it was Eve who was deceived. Men, for thousands of years, had to work very hard to support their families. Now that women are gaining equality, things have gone down hill. It's mostly women who vote for gay marriage and abortion. Women make decisions with their emotions. They vote for the things that hurt marriage and family. Gay marriage and abortion. We didn't have this when men were in charge. You haven't been oppressed, you have been helped and supported by men.

Hmm...

You know what else we had when men were in charge in our country? Things like child labor and slavery...

It was women who spearheaded the promotion of child labor laws. Women lead the abolition movement leading up to the Civil War. Women also pushed through prohibition, with the belief that alcoholic men spending all their money at the local bar was hurting families.

Women in our country have a pretty good track record of tempering the vote and working to help families.

It is not mostly women who vote for abortion and gay marriage. That might be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. Abortion serves the man's best interest more than the woman's - he doesn't have to fear getting saddled with 18 years of child support if he can pressure his girlfriend into ending the pregnancy.

And the statement, "Women make decisions with their emotions," is probably the silliest thing you said. Of course, we poor women don't have brains or logic to temper our feelings like you big, strong men must have.

Your condescending attitude is exactly the oppression that women have worked so hard to eradicate - the ridiculous idea that views us as perpetual children, under the custody of our male relatives, unable to manage our own affairs, and legally dead the moment we make our wedding vows.

 

[PersephonesTear]

Rape has nothing to do with this, that is a crime and completely separate issue. Speaking of divorce court, if the Bible tells us that divorce is wrong, then anything going on in "divorce court" is NOT bringing God's kingdom to earth. Women are supposed to be nurturing, supporting, loving, and beautiful because we are for men we aren't supposed to be trying to beat them in jobs or hold power over them but just the opposite. Men are the real victims of feminism and its up to Christian women to try to reverse that because we know the truth as it is in God's kingdom.

Rape is a feminist issue because until supporters of the feminist movement began to demand justice for rape victims, victims of this type of crime were shamed and humiliated by their own families and in the court systems. Those who did try to file charges were often mocked by law enforcement officials, told that they were asking for it, and all sorts of other horrible things.

It has been said before in this thread as well that men can be victims of rape and sexual abuse as well - guess what? Male victims of sexual assault have also benefited from the feminist movement demanding real justice for these crimes and working to remove the shame from the victim.

That is why the treatment of rape and sexual abuse by law enforcement and the courts is a huge issue for feminists. It does, indeed, fall under the header of the feminist movement and what we have gained through it.

Also, divorce courts may favor the women now - but it was not always that way. Before the feminist movement, men always received full custody of the children, they rarely had to pay alimony, and the women were basically just thrown out like garbage. Yeah, guys get screwed over in child support now. What they suffer, however, is nothing anywhere near to what happened to divorced women before. And I will state this again - family court laws now are designed to do what is best for the children in any given situation, not what is best for the man or the woman. Yes, they fail. There is nothing about divorce that is not ugly for everyone involved. Rome was not built in a day.

I'd also like to address your statement about women "beating men in jobs" or "holding power over them." First off - I am unmarried. There is no man that takes care of me, and I should absolutely be able to hold a job and take care of myself without having to worry that I can't make it in the world without being married. I should be able to make as much money as any man who also has to make it in the world by himself, taking care of himself. I should not have to live in poverty and scrape around for employment simply because, as a single woman, I don't deserve to be paid as much for my skills as a man makes.

I'd also point out that there are millions of families in America in which both spouses have to work, or they can't pay their bills and support their children. This idyllic picture of the man going out and getting a job while the woman stays at home making their house beautiful is a fantasy for most of America. It is a privilege that is reserved for the wealthy or left for those who have to scrape by in poverty because there is only one adult earner in the household.

Yet for some reason... women are expected to go to work, then come home and also have the second job of cooking, cleaning, and watching the children while her husband relaxes with a beer in front of the TV. That is reality for a staggering number of married women in the US. And it sure doesn't reflect the idea of men taking care of anyone but themselves.

I wish every woman was like you. You are a rose without a thorn. God bless you sister.

A rose without thorns, in addition to being uninteresting and essentially useless, gets plucked before her time and trampled to bits. God made the thorns for a reason.

 

[mandyangel]

Also, divorce courts may favor the women now - but it was not always that way. Before the feminist movement, men always received full custody of the children, they rarely had to pay alimony, and the women were basically just thrown out like garbage. Yeah, guys get screwed over in child support now. What they suffer, however, is nothing anywhere near to what happened to divorced women before. And I will state this again - family court laws now are designed to do what is best for the children in any given situation, not what is best for the man or the woman. Yes, they fail. There is nothing about divorce that is not ugly for everyone involved. Rome was not built in a day.

Getting a divorce and ending up in divorce court is against God. It is a sin to get a divorce, that should not happen.

I'd also like to address your statement about women "beating men in jobs" or "holding power over them." First off - I am unmarried. There is no man that takes care of me, and I should absolutely be able to hold a job and take care of myself without having to worry that I can't make it in the world without being married.

Its in the Bible that women shouldn't hold power over men.

I should be able to make as much money as any man who also has to make it in the world by himself, taking care of himself.

Ya ok fine go ahead, but don't go after me for wanting to be a girl and not do that. I don't wanna wear the pants in any relationship, I want to be a lady and wear the mini-skirt and tank top thank you very much. Beauty is the greatest gift and we shouldn't be forced to hide our bodies or what God made for us, especially since he didn't just make them for us but for men too.

Yet for some reason... women are expected to go to work, then come home and also have the second job of cooking, cleaning, and watching the children while her husband relaxes with a beer in front of the TV. That is reality for a staggering number of married women in the US. And it sure doesn't reflect the idea of men taking care of anyone but themselves.

A woman's role is to take care of her kids, the house, and her husband. I don't think women should work when they are married but its the man's responsibility to take care of his wife financially.

A rose without thorns, in addition to being uninteresting and essentially useless, gets plucked before her time and trampled to bits. God made the thorns for a reason.

Your too kind.

 

[PersephonesTear]

Ya ok fine go ahead, but don't go after me for wanting to be a girl and not do that. I don't wanna wear the pants in any relationship, I want to be a lady and wear the mini-skirt and tank top thank you very much. Beauty is the greatest gift and we shouldn't be forced to hide our bodies or what God made for us, especially since he didn't just make them for us but for men too.

If there is no man to take care of you in the first place, you'll starve to death while prancing around in your mini-skirt, looking pretty.

A woman's role is to take care of her kids, the house, and her husband. I don't think women should work when they are married but its the man's responsibility to take care of his wife financially.

Well it's most certainly NOT the role of a woman to take care of her kids and husband when she doesn't even have a husband or kids in the first place.

Your too kind.

Sorry, I didn't mean YOU are that. I meant that his compliment was badly worded and not a complimentary thing to say to a lady.

 

[Joykins]

Its in the Bible that women shouldn't hold power over men.

This is in I Tim. and refers to a worship situation where women are told to be quiet and learn. It is also a suggestion from the epistle's author ("I") and is not presented as a command from God.

I Tim. 2:


11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Ya ok fine go ahead, but don't go after me for wanting to be a girl and not do that. I don't wanna wear the pants in any relationship, I want to be a lady and wear the mini-skirt and tank top thank you very much. Beauty is the greatest gift and we shouldn't be forced to hide our bodies or what God made for us, especially since he didn't just make them for us but for men too.

So, the passage where the author of Timothy says he doesn't allow women in church to have authority over men? says this:

I Tim. 2:

9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

I don't think you can idolize one and disregard the other, if you regard the commands in the same way.

A woman's role is to take care of her kids, the house, and her husband. I don't think women should work when they are married but its the man's responsibility to take care of his wife financially.

It was a lifesaver I had a job when my husband got laid off, and I am fortunate to have a husband who likes to take care of his kids. Every family (or single person) should have the dignity of deciding what arrangements work best for them.

 

[mandyangel]

This is in I Tim. and refers to a worship situation where women are told to be quiet and learn. It is also a suggestion from the epistle's author ("I") and is not presented as a command from God.

I Tim. 2:


11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.




So, the passage where the author of Timothy says he doesn't allow women in church to have authority over men? says this:

I Tim. 2:

9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

I don't think you can idolize one and disregard the other, if you regard the commands in the same way.



It was a lifesaver I had a job when my husband got laid off, and I am fortunate to have a husband who likes to take care of his kids. Every family (or single person) should have the dignity of deciding what arrangements work best for them.

Yip, I agree with all of that and I believe the bible means exactly what is says, word for word. And I don't need a feminist group to tell me what kind of girl I want to be.

 

[ValleyGal]

Mandyangel, there are a few things to remember about the Bible as a word for word document. It was translated from other languages, making word for word translation to English impossible. That's only the start. We also have to keep in mind the context and purpose for which it was written.

In the ! Tim passage, he was addressing a specific problem in that particular time/church with those particular women. It says not to have "authority over" - it says nothing that we cannot have equality with or same as. If we also take a look at the ideal wife in Pr 31, we see that she was married, but she was a successful landowner and business manager outside the home. It is important to tease out what is a cultural thing at the time, and what is a command. Today we are not commanded to live in that culture.

No one is telling you that you cannot be a woman of more "traditional" values (western history of the last two hundred years). But we are saying feminism is not the evil thing some Christians (mostly men) make it out to be. And certainly it is supported biblically, though I do agree that the radical feminists take it too far by wanting authority over a man - most of us simply want to be treated equally, with equal social power and the respect that men think they deserve by virtue of having the right body parts.

 

[RealFaith]

Hmm...

You know what else we had when men were in charge in our country? Things like child labor and slavery...

It was women who spearheaded the promotion of child labor laws. Women lead the abolition movement leading up to the Civil War. Women also pushed through prohibition, with the belief that alcoholic men spending all their money at the local bar was hurting families.

Women in our country have a pretty good track record of tempering the vote and working to help families.

It is not mostly women who vote for abortion and gay marriage. That might be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. Abortion serves the man's best interest more than the woman's - he doesn't have to fear getting saddled with 18 years of child support if he can pressure his girlfriend into ending the pregnancy.

And the statement, "Women make decisions with their emotions," is probably the silliest thing you said. Of course, we poor women don't have brains or logic to temper our feelings like you big, strong men must have.

Your condescending attitude is exactly the oppression that women have worked so hard to eradicate - the ridiculous idea that views us as perpetual children, under the custody of our male relatives, unable to manage our own affairs, and legally dead the moment we make our wedding vows.

You said, "It was women who spearheaded the promotion of child labor laws. Women lead the abolition movement leading up to the Civil War." Are you then saying that women were NOT oppressed and had the freedom to do things?

Some men do indeed vote for abortion and gay marriage, but it was women's lib that instigated it. It's mostly women who push for these things, because women make decisions with their emotions. That's why Paul said it was Eve who was deceived by the serpent. God put men in charge to protect women from deception, not because men are more intelligent than women, but because Satan originally went after the woman to deceive her.

I don't see women being oppressed. This is just feminist and liberal propaganda.

 

[RealFaith]

Mandyangel, there are a few things to remember about the Bible as a word for word document. It was translated from other languages, making word for word translation to English impossible. That's only the start. We also have to keep in mind the context and purpose for which it was written.

In the ! Tim passage, he was addressing a specific problem in that particular time/church with those particular women. It says not to have "authority over" - it says nothing that we cannot have equality with or same as. If we also take a look at the ideal wife in Pr 31, we see that she was married, but she was a successful landowner and business manager outside the home. It is important to tease out what is a cultural thing at the time, and what is a command. Today we are not commanded to live in that culture.

No one is telling you that you cannot be a woman of more "traditional" values (western history of the last two hundred years). But we are saying feminism is not the evil thing some Christians (mostly men) make it out to be. And certainly it is supported biblically, though I do agree that the radical feminists take it too far by wanting authority over a man - most of us simply want to be treated equally, with equal social power and the respect that men think they deserve by virtue of having the right body parts.

Ah, so what you're doing is trying to cast doubt on God's word? I trust nobody here will fall for that. It's the devil that wants you to question God's word, just like he did in the garden on Eden.

 

[RealFaith]

Thankyou so much for your kind words. I know feminists and every time me or my gfs have come in contact with them, its ended badly... they have personally attacked me for off the wall things like wearing a bikini for instance.

I am glad that my father taught me and my sisters the right way to be a lady because I feel that with the times we are going through now, we need to be armed with the truth and God. I can never understand feminists not for a lack of trying but because its illogical, like why would a feminist be for abortion when you are aborting HALF of the new baby girls coming into life.

Why would they be against somebody like Carrie Prejean for staying strong and saying what she really believes. I learned a lot from Carrie Prejean and her book "Still Standing" is like my second Bible, she is right in everything she says and has taught me a lot about the feminist agenda. I recommend the book to everybody. Also, Glenn Beck has exposed the feminist plot as well. Thankyou again for supporting me.

That's okay dear sister. I'm just glad we still have sisters like you in the church. As you can see, I was criticised for calling you "a rose without a thorn." Feminists hate men being gentlemen, and they hate women who oppose feminism. I was simply giving you a compliment. Feminism is filled with pride, envy, hatred, bitterness, and intolerance. God bless you for being a godly lady

 

[mandyangel]

That's okay dear sister. I'm just glad we still have sisters like you in the church. As you can see, I was criticised for calling you "a rose without a thorn." Feminists hate men being gentlemen, and they hate women who oppose feminism. I was simply giving you a compliment. Feminism is filled with pride, envy, hatred, bitterness, and intolerance. God bless you for being a godly lady

Thankyou. I'm grateful to have been raised by a father who taught me these things and still does. Love, Mandy

 

[RealFaith]

Thankyou. I'm grateful to have been raised by a father who taught me these things and still does. Love, Mandy

What about your mum? Did she not raise you the same way your dad did?