Evolution Eating Itself?

[quatona]

This is a thought that just occured to me this morning.
Maybe it´s complete nonsense, or even isn´t all that new...(or both)
There could be at least two kind of mistakes in it:
a. An inadvertant misrepresentation or misapplication of evolution theory,
b. Logical errors.
So I am asking you to critically scrutinize it:

The development of the human intellect to its current capabilities constitutes an absolute first in evolution:
This species has evolved the capability to render evolution toothless. Humanity (since presumably the industrial revolution) has the ability to change the environment so radically and at such a speed that evolution´s tools are unable to follow and give our species and other species the opportunity to adapt to the new environmental conditions.
IOW: Evolution has "created" a speed that renders it too slow to deal with its own results.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Transhumanists I know would agree. "Evolution" may have transformed into something quite different than what it had been for the past billion years or so.

There are some people who worry that our modern levels of prosperity may have halted, and may even reverse, human evolution, by making us stupider over the generations. I'm not certain if that is true, but it is worrying.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[KCfromNC]

This is a thought that just occured to me this morning.
Maybe it´s complete nonsense, or even isn´t all that new...(or both)
There could be at least two kind of mistakes in it:
a. An inadvertant misrepresentation or misapplication of evolution theory,
b. Logical errors.
So I am asking you to critically scrutinize it:

The development of the human intellect to its current capabilities constitutes an absolute first in evolution:
This species has evolved the capability to render evolution toothless. Humanity (since presumably the industrial revolution) has the ability to change the environment so radically and at such a speed that evolution´s tools are unable to follow and give our species and other species the opportunity to adapt to the new environmental conditions.
IOW: Evolution has "created" a speed that renders it too slow to deal with its own results.

And yet people still die of starvation and disease. Maybe we're not as powerful as you're setting us up to be.

 

[Eudaimonist]

And yet people still die of starvation and disease. Maybe we're not as powerful as you're setting us up to be.

This does happen, but at much lower rates than before, and barring some major disaster, prosperity and medical care are likely to continue to improve, cutting those rates down even further.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[GrowingSmaller]

extremophiles like extremes. afaik mutation rates can evolve. iirc first life may have been thermophile bacteeia adapted to near boiling deep sea vents.

 

[quatona]

And yet people still die of starvation and disease. Maybe we're not as powerful as you're setting us up to be.

Well, it was not my intention to set us up as powerful in every respect, only in the one mentioned. Neither was it my intention to explicitly or implicitly value this good or bad, or to claim that we have evolved to use this ability for our purposes.
Actually, when writing my post I was thinking more of stuff like a nuclear world war (to pick the most extreme example).

 

[quatona]

afaik mutation rates can evolve.

So?

 

[juvenissun]

This is a thought that just occured to me this morning.
Maybe it´s complete nonsense, or even isn´t all that new...(or both)
There could be at least two kind of mistakes in it:
a. An inadvertant misrepresentation or misapplication of evolution theory,
b. Logical errors.
So I am asking you to critically scrutinize it:

The development of the human intellect to its current capabilities constitutes an absolute first in evolution:
This species has evolved the capability to render evolution toothless. Humanity (since presumably the industrial revolution) has the ability to change the environment so radically and at such a speed that evolution´s tools are unable to follow and give our species and other species the opportunity to adapt to the new environmental conditions.
IOW: Evolution has "created" a speed that renders it too slow to deal with its own results.

I like your idea.

It is not because the idea is right, but because you pointed out a problem which evolutionist has no way to solve. Their reaction? They do not talk about it at all.

In other words, humanity is not a content in the theory of biological evolution.

 

[quatona]

In other words, humanity is not a content in the theory of biological evolution.

Doesn´t follow from anything I said - but I guess you welcome everything that floats your boat, even if it´s fallacious conclusions from ideas you think are wrong.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

So?

you said evolution too slow. if rates increase that may lead to more adaptations.

 

[quatona]

you said evolution too slow. if rates increase that may lead to more adaptations.

Ah, I see.
I´m not seeing that adaption speed is anywhere close to catching up without instantaneous radical changes in an entire eco-system (lest its eradication), though - but I may be wrong there.
Looking forward to what the experts have to say.

 

[juvenissun]

Doesn´t follow from anything I said - but I guess you welcome everything that floats your boat, even if it´s fallacious conclusions from ideas you think are wrong.

The fact that you question the evolutional origin of humanity supported one of my key argument that human is not evolved. Evolutionist simply have no way to deal with this problem. So, they said: it is not an issue of evolution.

I guess you will not get a single answer from any evolutionist.

 

[quatona]

The fact that you question the evolutional origin of humanity

I don´t question it. No idea how you managed to read this into my post.

 

[Davian]

This is a thought that just occured to me this morning.
Maybe it´s complete nonsense, or even isn´t all that new...(or both)
There could be at least two kind of mistakes in it:
a. An inadvertant misrepresentation or misapplication of evolution theory,
b. Logical errors.
So I am asking you to critically scrutinize it:

The development of the human intellect to its current capabilities constitutes an absolute first in evolution:
This species has evolved the capability to render evolution toothless. Humanity (since presumably the industrial revolution) has the ability to change the environment so radically and at such a speed that evolution´s tools are unable to follow and give our species and other species the opportunity to adapt to the new environmental conditions.

I'm good with that so far.

IOW: Evolution has "created" a speed that renders it too slow to deal with its own results.

How about: Evolution has produced a species that, to date, alters its environment faster that the process of evolution would result in speciation or extinction.

I had to put that "to date" bit in, cuz we, as a species, have a lot of potential to dramatically alter our environment beyond our ability to control it, in the foreseeable future.

 

[quatona]

How about: Evolution has produced a species that, to date, alters its environment faster that the process of evolution would result in speciation or extinction.

Fine with me.

 

[Cearbhall]

This species has evolved the capability to render evolution toothless. Humanity (since presumably the industrial revolution) has the ability to change the environment so radically and at such a speed that evolution´s tools are unable to follow and give our species and other species the opportunity to adapt to the new environmental conditions.
IOW: Evolution has "created" a speed that renders it too slow to deal with its own results.

I agree, and I think scientists would generally agree with you as well. Species die out all the time because of man-made changes to the environment. I'm not sure what can or should be done about it, but evolution has definitely screwed our species and our planet over. We have the ability to blow up all the parts of the planet that people inhabit, for pete's sake.

 

[Gadarene]

This is a thought that just occured to me this morning.
Maybe it´s complete nonsense, or even isn´t all that new...(or both)
There could be at least two kind of mistakes in it:
a. An inadvertant misrepresentation or misapplication of evolution theory,
b. Logical errors.
So I am asking you to critically scrutinize it:

The development of the human intellect to its current capabilities constitutes an absolute first in evolution:
This species has evolved the capability to render evolution toothless. Humanity (since presumably the industrial revolution) has the ability to change the environment so radically and at such a speed that evolution´s tools are unable to follow and give our species and other species the opportunity to adapt to the new environmental conditions.
IOW: Evolution has "created" a speed that renders it too slow to deal with its own results.

Yes, intelligence and toolcrafting are a bit like cheat codes, but I don't see why aspects of evolution like genetic drift and sexual selection should have magically stopped. Something like speciation though is unlikely to happen as we have effectively colonised the entire planet. Maybe if we engage in long-range spaceflight we may end up becoming separated and speciating, but not until then.

The consequences of environmental events are likely going to be lesser, as you say. But rendered absolutely defunct? I'd say not.

Besides, one good meteorite? I doubt we'd be guaranteed to adapt to that. Once again, the little buggers would inherit the earth.

 

[quatona]

Besides, one good meteorite? I doubt we'd be guaranteed to adapt to that. Once again, the little buggers would inherit the earth.

Yes sure. There are plenty of other events that don´t allow for species to adapt to the changes.
They are, however, not products of evolution.

 

[variant]

This is a thought that just occured to me this morning.
Maybe it´s complete nonsense, or even isn´t all that new...(or both)
There could be at least two kind of mistakes in it:
a. An inadvertant misrepresentation or misapplication of evolution theory,
b. Logical errors.
So I am asking you to critically scrutinize it:

The development of the human intellect to its current capabilities constitutes an absolute first in evolution:
This species has evolved the capability to render evolution toothless. Humanity (since presumably the industrial revolution) has the ability to change the environment so radically and at such a speed that evolution´s tools are unable to follow and give our species and other species the opportunity to adapt to the new environmental conditions.
IOW: Evolution has "created" a speed that renders it too slow to deal with its own results.

No, the environment simply changed to one that is manipulated by the species, which will still be subject to genetic evolution in the long run.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Its possible that the global trmperature will run away in a potitive feedback loop, and the oceans will boil?

Also there may be a new geological era (epoch, whatever) called the "anthropocene" characterised by mankind's effects on the geographic environment.