The Achilles Heel of Atheism

[KCfromNC]

The Achilles Heel of my conviction that my fridge is empty and I have no money left: I am going to stay hungry.
Evidence that my fridge is full and there´s plenty of money in my pocket.

Yeah, the whole thread seems to be an exercise in theistic wishful thinking. The conclusion makes them feel icky, therefore it can't be right and they'll make up a bunch of stuff to convince themselves it has to be wrong.

 

[Cearbhall]

the discussion has been on why philosophical naturalism ultimately leads to the conclusion that life as we know it is ultimately meaningless.

In fact this thread was entitled: "The Achilles Heel of ATHEISM".

Barring some atheistic spiritualistic interpretation of reality i.e. buddhist interpretation of reality, ATHEISM ENTAILS SOME SORT OF PHILOSOPHICAL NATURALISM.

Some sort, yes, but atheism only indicates a disbelief in deities. Naturalism indicates a disbelief in all supernatural forces and entities. They have separate terms for a reason.

 

[Tnmusicman]

I'll agree with you about ghosts, since those would technically be deities, but I chortle deep inside at the idea that belief in the possibility of aliens somehow contradicts atheism. The chance that life developed on only one planet in the entire universe is impossibly slim. I don't see what that has to do with whether or not someone believes in any deities, unless you for some reason think that any extraterrestrial form of life would be supernatural.

No, I don't consider ET's supernatural but I think it's rather banal for one to talk about the lack of evidence for a god but turn around and say " well, mathematically it's almost certain there's aliens" even though there isn't a shred of evidence that ET's actually exist. Why is your faith more logical or rational when its no more rooted in FACTS than another? Both are dependent on hunches, theories and faith.

Actually, what I find most humerous is the proclamation that people who believe in God are stupid because how can you believe in something when theres no proof, right? It makes me want to say " okay, now the shoe is on the other foot and how are you going to wrap your belief in aliens around your atheist non-beliefs"? I understand about mathematical probability but once again, no verifiable, testable and empirical proof. How are you any better claiming aliens exist on a hunch, because "the odds are we can't be alone"? The odds are there COULD be a spirit of all knowing. Maybe its an alien.

 

[Gadarene]

We have one instance of life evolving on a planet.

We have no instances of gods.

Notable difference.

 

[Tnmusicman]

We have one instance of life evolving on a planet.

We have no instances of gods.

Notable difference.

This says nothing of alien life. We have no instances of known alien life.
Actually,a lot of people would say we do have an instance of a god. I'm referring,of course, to those that believe in Jesus Christ. You may not accept it but many certainly do.
So, lets return to your standard.
Evidence for God/gods- zero
Evidence for alien life - zero

Seems we're at square one unless you have proof for alien life .

 

[Gadarene]

This says nothing of alien life. We have no instances of known alien life.

"Alien" is an arbitrary label. We know life exists on one planet. That much is obvious. That prior at least exists, so it's not unreasonable to assume there may be life elsewhere out there.

The same cannot be said for any deity.

I don't think people are necessarily daft for believing in a deity, but when they make this sort of argument, well....

 

[EnemyOfReason]

The only Achilles heel of atheism is the fact that it is boring and bland. Other then that there is really nothing to "expose" about Atheism.

 

[Gadarene]

The only Achilles heel of atheism is the fact that it is boring and bland.

Well there's pretty much nothing to it other than a lack of belief in gods

 

[EnemyOfReason]

Well there's pretty much nothing to it other than a lack of belief in gods

True dat!

I look at it like this. Atheist deny the existence of god and only have the natural world. Theist accept the existence of god but must deny thing in accordance to their religion.

Deist on the other hand must accept the existence of god and accept science and reasoning. The Deist has more liberty essentially.

My argument is that Atheism is is just more boring . You may view God as a negative being but I view religion as such. God just makes things fun.....darn'it I sound simple minded

 

[Gadarene]

True dat!

I look at it like this. Atheist deny the existence of god

No, not necessarily.

and only have the natural world. Theist accept the existence of god but must deny thing in accordance to their religion.

Deist on the other hand must accept the existence of god and accept science and reasoning. The Deist has more liberty essentially.

You have fewer awkward claims to justify. The origin of the universe is a head scratcher all round. I wouldn't say you have it easier, you just have a slightly more defensible stance than theists in that it isn't shackled to a load of additional claims that are entirely baseless.

My argument is that Atheism is is just more boring . You may view God as a negative being but I view religion as such. God just makes things fun.....darn'it I sound simple minded

I'm sure it does, but reality has little to do with how fun I want it to be.

(at least not until "the device" is ready)

 

[Tnmusicman]

"Alien" is an arbitrary label. We know life exists on one planet. That much is obvious. That prior at least exists, so it's not unreasonable to assume there may be life elsewhere out there.

The same cannot be said for any deity.

I don't think people are necessarily daft for believing in a deity, but when they make this sort of argument, well....

You only say its daft because of the side of the argument on which you stand. To theists it's quite sensible to conclude that since there is no proof for alien life it would seem silly for atheists to believe in them because they deny God for the very same set of criteria. There's nothing illogical or "way-out in left field" about that statement. Plus, I haven't even started on the "God is an alien" argument (not that I personally believe it but some put it forth as an argument).

 

[Gadarene]

You only say its daft because of the side of the argument on which you stand.

Nope. It's general practice. Something observed to exist once can potentially exist again if the circumstances for bringing it about are similar. This is a different category of thing to something that has never been shown to exist. You can debate the actual notion of whether it has been proven or not, but the principle is a general one.

To theists it's quite sensible to conclude that since there is no proof for alien life it would seem silly for atheists to believe in them because they deny God for the very same set of criteria.

Where did I say I believed in them? I said it's more plausible because of that prior, not that they definitely exist by induction.

 

[EnemyOfReason]

No, not necessarily.

I do not mean deny as in they secretly know. I say Atheist deny the existence of god on the account that they find it unlikely.
I should have worded it differently

You have fewer awkward claims to justify. The origin of the universe is a head scratcher all round. I wouldn't say you have it easier, you just have a slightly more defensible stance than theists in that it isn't shackled to a load of additional claims that are entirely baseless.

My claims are not definite and I claim no absolute authoritative understanding on anything. So I really have nothing to justify.

I'm sure it does, but reality has little to do with how fun I want it to be.

Stop denying the truth. Atheism is boring, you know its a fact .

(at least not until "the device" is ready)

Doomsday device . You gonna let me in your secret

 

[Cearbhall]

You only say its daft because of the side of the argument on which you stand. To theists it's quite sensible to conclude that since there is no proof for alien life it would seem silly for atheists to believe in them because they deny God for the very same set of criteria.

Your comparison would be valid if you knew of a parallel universe in which God exists and therefore concluded that he exists in this one.

 

[Eudaimonist]

My argument is that Atheism is is just more boring .

For you, perhaps. I personally find being an atheist far more fun and interesting than when I was a Christian. Your mileage may vary.

But perhaps you aren't talking about "being an atheist", but are simply talking about the stance of atheism itself, which is just a negating position on one issue. Yes, I will agree that atheism seen in that light is boring. It's like being against the EU, or against warrantless spying by the NSA.

However, atheism isn't a complete worldview, but just a fragment of one. This is why I always say that atheism is "just a footnote" to my worldview.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Cearbhall]

I look at it like this. Atheist deny the existence of god and only have the natural world. Theist accept the existence of god but must deny thing in accordance to their religion.

Deist on the other hand must accept the existence of god and accept science and reasoning. The Deist has more liberty essentially.

My argument is that Atheism is is just more boring . You may view God as a negative being but I view religion as such. God just makes things fun.....darn'it I sound simple minded

That's why I call myself an agnostic atheist. Agnostic people are like the Scooby-Doo gang. Much more exciting.

 

[EnemyOfReason]

That's why I call myself an agnostic atheist. Agnostic people are like the Scooby-Doo gang. Much more exciting.

Took me years to realize that an agnostic is actually a person who does not care if there is or is not a god, they just find it irrelevant.

I always heard Christians and Muslims say an agnostic is a person who cannot make up their mind. This was used in efforts to proselytize agnostics and after dealing with enough of them I found this conception entirely wrong.

I have quite the respect for you "undecided fellows"

 

[lupusFati]

That's why I call myself an agnostic atheist. Agnostic people are like the Scooby-Doo gang. Much more exciting.

Can those two terms even exist side by side like that?

WHY YOU MAKE BRAIN HURT?! XD

 

[Cearbhall]

Took me years to realize that an agnostic is actually a person who does not care if there is or is not a god, they just find it irrelevant.

I wouldn't say that this applies to all agnostics. I mean, if there is a higher being, I think it's probably relevant.

 

[EnemyOfReason]

For you, perhaps. I personally find being an atheist far more fun and interesting than when I was a Christian. Your mileage may vary.

But perhaps you aren't talking about "being an atheist", but are simply talking about the stance of atheism itself, which is just a negating position on one issue. Yes, I will agree that atheism seen in that light is boring. It's like being against the EU, or against warrantless spying by the NSA.

However, atheism isn't a complete worldview, but just a fragment of one. This is why I always say that atheism is "just a footnote" to my worldview.


eudaimonia,

Mark

This is exactly what I was referring to. Both atheism and theism have restriction by default because each is conformed to a certain level of thought (each having their varying views added on to the basics).
But neither atheist nor theists is as free and as liberal as the deist. Deist is the only one which can comply fully to both parties thus allowing more radical forms of thought to occur.

To me this would be a more exciting endeavor then either party personally. I have to comply to naturalism and spiritualism and at the same time I see not distinction between either. I have no rules, no boundaries and I must understand everything myself. I can have science and god minus the theistic absurdities and minus the atheistic rejection(not literal).

This just seems to leave more to explore. I explore the natural and supernatural. I also have to understand the uniformity between both as well making Deism 3 times as challenging(thus fun) as atheism.

The theist wants pie(god) and the atheist wants cake(naturalistic reason). I want both . Us Deist are a greedy people