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You seem to be confirming that it is a New thing, as you say "nowadays". Well it was not all that long ago that chernoff said this. It was also a show which he was a guest, to speak about the previous "messianic conference which had just finished. The host had attended and they were discussing Messianic judaism. So, I do not know what to make of you all and what you are saying. I have to wonder if you consider the leadership or the messianic jewish aliance, and their messianic conventions, non messianic or what.
Can't there be various opinions here? I mean this is just so strange.
The leaders yes. Those that sat as the high Sanhedrin, as the supreme justices. That would include the sect of the Sadducees as well, and the judicial decisions made from that court body, remained in force by the judges under that court. He did not tell them to listen to the Pharisees as a sect, apart from the Sanhedrin. Would you agree?
Gxg (G²);63496282 said:
Irony..... I was just (an hour ago) looking up the rabbinic views concerning Ezekiels temple. I did this, in having nothing whatsoever to do with this conversation here..YET, I learned they almost did not include that book in their canon.Gxg (G²);63496282 said:
The title of this site is not in the bottom right corner. I see nowReally, now ... so what's this on the bottom right of your site's banner?:
The conditions of vs ten and eleven must be fully met. Israel must dwell
Irony..... I was just (an hour ago) looking up the rabbinic views concerning Ezekiels temple. I did this, in having nothing whatsoever to do with this conversation here..YET, I learned they almost did not include that book in their canon.
The reason being, the laws found there were different from the law from Moses, even to the point of being in contradiction to it. Then it was brought up how the law of the Messianic kingdom would be different from the law from Moses. This from first century Judaism!!!!. So how on earth is AF, going apart from Judaism anyway? Who is, and who is not speaking in the context of first century Judaism? It is utterly mind boggling.
Sadly, what seems to be the case is that many assume "replacement" if noting where certain things within the Mosaic that were in place are not in operation during the time we live in - and sadly, even in thinking it's "replacement", they don't realize where they have adopted a system of replacement themselves to replace what was always discussed in Judaism during/before the time of Christ - for there were always differing views on the progression of commands in each era God's people lived in....in the same way that a U.S Constitution goes through changes and applications differ as time goes on.
As someone once said... don't throw the baby out with the bathwater...Gxg (G²);63497977 said:
Some of it is interesting, seeing how there were times that the rules of sacrifices had times others did not do accordingly - yet the Lord exalted them. David making sacrifices himself rather than having the priests do so comes immediately to mind (more in #40 ) even though Saul got in trouble for doing the same - and with sacrificing wherever one was as all the Patriarchs (including Job) and others did in Genesis, it is interesting to see the background behind that (more shared in #1/#25/ #61 / #62 #65 ). For in the Diaspora era, when the Jewish believers were no longer seeing the temple as the central place for ministry - as with the account of Stephen when he spoke in-depth on sacrifices and what the Lord viewed on with temples in Acts 6-7 - many no longer had an ideology that sacrifices had to be made solely within the Temple system during their day. And the same is said as it pertains to gathering ( #4/#21/ #23 /#29 #39 ) - in light of the example of the Lord when he lived and the variety of places he operated. It's why the early body of believers could spread as far as they did - and see the Lord do amazing things. They were prepared to adapt and see a differing form of application.
Originally Posted by Qnts2
Copyright © 2009, Ariel Ministries. O-MJH.PDF Messianic Jewish History - OUTLINE, PAGE 7
1809 - The London Society for the Promotion of Christianity Amongst the Jews founded
1813 – 41 Jewish believers form a fellowship in London, Beni Abraham
1823 – A group of Jewish believers and their supporters attempt to purchase 20,000 acres in southern New Jersey for a communal farm to house persecuted Jewish believers.
1840 – Sixty prominent Jewish believers in England publish a defense of the Jewish community against the false charge of the “blood libel”
1842 – Jewish believer Michael Solomon Alexander establishes a major protestant church in Jerusalem
1866 - The Hebrew Christian Alliance was formed in London.
1885 – Joseph Rabinowitz begins a genuinely Messianic Jewish, independent Jewish congregation in Kishinev
1885 – Jacob Freshman establishes a group of Jewish believers with Presbyterian help in New York City
1894 – Rabbi Leopold Cohn establishes a Jewish outreach in Brooklyn that would eventually become The American Board of Missions to the Jews, now known as Chosen People Ministries.
1915 – The Hebrew Christian Alliance of America (HCAA) was established with Sabbati Rohold, born into an Orthodox Jewish home in Jewish Palestine as its first President. The “driving motive” of the early HCAA was deemed to be evangelism. In 1917, the HCAA began publishing the HCA Quarterly with a Yiddish supplement. The early HCAA was a fellowship of Jewish believers, and issued statements viewing with caution or outright opposition the establishment of Congregations that were specifically intended to maintain a Jewish culture. HCAA members were generally allied with Protestant Christian churches, although a minority within the HCAA favored a Messianic Jewish stance.
1920’s - The HCAA took part in the fight against rising anti-Semitism, strongly denouncing Henry Ford’s distribution of the hoax “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”.
1930’s - The HCAA protested the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany, and called attention to the plight of the “one and three-quarter million Christians of Jewish descent, who were all treated as Jews while the Jews of Germany considered them Christians”. They had trouble finding relief. The HCAA helped many of them to relocate, and continued to aid victims of the Holocaust after World War II.
1934 - The First Hebrew Christian Church of Chicago was established by Presbyterians. It had a Christian worship service with a Jewish “flavor,” and was headed by David Bronstein. A similar congregation exists in Los Angeles.
1939 – On the even of WWII, over a million people of Jewish origin are attending churches & fellowships in Europe
1938 thru 1945 – Between 100,000 and 250,000 Jewish believers die during The Holocaust.
1950’s – Congregations and stable fellowships of believers practicing Jewish culture exist in Baltimore, Detroit, Toronto, New York, Newark, Philadelphia, Chicago and Los Angeles.
1966 – 1968 - Under the auspices of the HCAA, the Young Hebrew Christian Alliance (YHCA) was started by Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Manny Brotman & Joe Finkelstein. Holding its first separate conference in 1970, they chose Messiah College in Pennsylvania for their meeting place. The entire Alliance would eventually meet there.
1970’s – This time period would see very large numbers of Jewish young people coming to faith
1971 - Martin Chernoff, a Jewish believer and Assemblies of God pastor, became the President of the HCAA. Chernoff would go on to lead Beth Yeshua Congregation of Philadelphia. His Pentecostal background influenced Messianic Judaism, and that of his sons Joel and David would continue to shape the Alliance for decades to come.
1973 – Moishe Rosen establishes ‘Jews for Jesus’, an evangelistic mission outreach.
1975 – In a divided vote, the HCAA voted to change its’ name to the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA). It signaled an intentional move toward unique self-identity for Jewish believers, semi-separate from the larger church body.
1977 – Ariel Ministries founded by Arnold Fruchtenbaum with dual goals of Jewish evangelism & discipleship.
1979 - The Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations (UMJC) was formed with Daniel Juster as President.
1980’s – Expansion of the Messianic Movement, growing use of American synagogue culture
1998 - Nazarene Yisrael Alliance is formed as an umbrella for groups teaching the “Two-House” false doctrine that Gentile believers in their groups are of the Tribe of Ephraim. Many in these groups reject the teaching of the Trinity and promote obligatory Torah observance. They influence over 20% of Congregations and recruit deceptively using various names. Notables include: Michael Rood, Marshall Koniuchowsky, Batya Wooten, Ed Chumney, Monte Judah, Brian Samtur and James Trimm, who all maintain separate organizations. The Internet fuels their popularity.
2003 – The Association of Messianic Congregations (AMC) founded by ‘Grace oriented’ Jewish believers who cite the “need for a new association of messianic congregations, those who would continue to hold to a messiah centered, joyfully Jewish, grace embracing messianic Judaism.” www.MessianicAssociation.org
Gxg (G²);60539337 said:
