Feminism viewed from a Christian perspective: Good? Bad? Something else?

[Erth]

What is feminism about? Feminism is an ideology that posits that women have special interests that need special attention on many levels, not least politically. For a woman to be a feminist means to identify with other women and to pursue the interests of women politically.

The interests of women may be of many kinds, but an important point is that in feminism these interests are thought of as existing in most of or all of society, sometimes even stretching into people's homes. Women's interests have been looked after long before feminism was on the political agenda, but going much further than that feminism posits that women are a political interest group in their own right, and that the special interests of women have a very wide range, for example from politics to sexuality. Quoting from Wikipedia:

"Feminist theory aims to understand gender inequality and focuses on gender politics, power relations, and sexuality. While providing a critique of these social and political relations, much of feminist theory also focuses on the promotion of women's rights and interests."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

My question to you, and the subject matter of this forum thread, is the following:

How shall we as Christians see feminism, from a Christian perspective? How does feminist perspectives and incentives affect our lives, our society and our faith?

 

[sorednax]

It's tricky, because Feminism itself seems to be radically divided even among themselves. For example, I've heard feminists abolish Playboy as it reduces women to mere sexual objects and not be seen as a real person. Yet other feminists find that it actually is empowering for women to own and control their sexuality and how they choose to be seen, if, where, and when.

They seem to want an acknowledgement of equal rights, yet also insist on special needs. For example, if women truly wanted to be equal to men, why are men left out of the decision making proess regarding pregnancy? It's her body? Ok, fine. But her decision to carry it to term and raise the baby means he has no choice, only an obligation to support it financially for 18 years, or go to prison.

I find the dual nature of feminism fascinating as women want to portray an image of assertiveness, but also maintain that they are weak and often victims. Take date rape charges. It is actually policy that if a woman consumes alcohol and consents to have sex, she is legally defined as raped as alcohol would impare her judgement. Think about that for a moment. You go to a nightclub, you and her have a few drinks, chat it up, and one thing leads to another, and soon your back at her place. In the morning, she may regret what's she's done, and the law would protect her, claiming she was impaired. The man, who consumed just as much alcohol, is still expected to behave in a manner of sobriety and viewed as having sound judgement.

Feminists are also quick to point out that they make 25% less in the workforce than men in positions of exeutive management. Yet they omit how much more it costs a company to hire and maintain a female employee. For example, if a woman is pregnant, she can take Maternity leave, often for months. Yet not only does the company still have to pay her during this time, they also have to hire a temp to fill in the role she left vacant, plus according to FMLA, her position must remain in place upon her return, or at least a new position of equal pay/responsibility must be created. If an average woman has 3 kids during her Career, that can equate to over a year of collecting a paycheck and not producing anything. Now, imagine if said company had dozens of women at that level. Yes, some companies that claim to be progressive do also offer Paternity leave for fathers, but this is usually only a week or two.

From my own perspective as a man of faith, who is an American, my regards on feminism is this. I believe we all have the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. While I do not condone discrimination, I do recognize that men and women are different. They have different needs then men, and thus should be treated differently.

For example; I will hold open the door, pull out a chair, stand up as you excuse yourself from the table, and hold an umbrella over you while I get soaked. I do this out of respect for your gender, not because I feel women are weaker, or need protected. Some feminists would agree with me, others wouldn't. Of course, I am only speaking for myself as a Christian, and not the entirety of Christians, but if I were a gambling man, I'd bet the majority are similar.

 

[LoveNeverDies]

What is feminism about? Feminism is an ideology that posits that women have special interests that need special attention on many levels, not least politically. For a woman to be a feminist means to identify with other women and to pursue the interests of women politically.

The interests of women may be of many kinds, but an important point is that in feminism these interests are thought of as existing in most of or all of society, sometimes even stretching into people's homes. Women's interests have been looked after long before feminism was on the political agenda, but going much further than that feminism posits that women are a political interest group in their own right, and that the special interests of women have a very wide range, for example from politics to sexuality. Quoting from Wikipedia:

"Feminist theory aims to understand gender inequality and focuses on gender politics, power relations, and sexuality. While providing a critique of these social and political relations, much of feminist theory also focuses on the promotion of women's rights and interests."

My question to you, and the subject matter of this forum thread, is the following:

How shall we as Christians see feminism, from a Christian perspective? How does feminist perspectives and incentives affect our lives, our society and our faith?

To answer your question directly, Christians should see feminism as Satan's tool to destroy marriage. There is nothing godly about feminism. If feminism was really about equality, why don't feminists call themselves equalists? When a woman calls herself a feminist, she gives the impression that her main focus is on women's rights only.

My main objection to feminism is that it often fails to recognize the differences between men and women. Despite what the secular world says, God gave men and women different roles. You can disagree with me until the cows come home, but men and women are better at different roles. I'm not saying that women can never take on a man's role, or vice versa, but this should be the exception rather than the rule.

I believe Christians should oppose feminism as much as possible. It is not good for marriage and it in no way helps bring a husband and wife closer together. Quite the opposite.

 

[jak]

I agree, the word feminism is not the best word to express the concept of equal rights for men and women.

probably the word came to being by accident because the issue would have been discussed using the words "women's rights" (after all, the lack of rights for women was the starting point for the movement).

But yes, "equalism" or something similar would probably be better!!

And I'm all for it,whether you call it feminism or equalism or whatever - as God is, I believe.

 

[fhansen]

At its best feminism is simply a call for justice, which Christianity, by its very nature, must earnestly seek in this world. At its worst feminism is just another manifestation of pride-a way that humans try to assert their superiority over other humans-and pursue selfish interests by means of it.

 

[Erth]

I am most delighted to see all the different and well put contributions to this debate about feminism from a Christian perspective.

I myself, as a the creator and moderator of sorts of this thread, will - at least for the time being - limit myself to adding information or asking contributors to explain further etc.

I will now contribute with some information from Wikipedia concerning the origin, and a few early mentions in dictionaries, of the words "feminism" and "feminist", since this theme has been touched on by contributors. The question of whether the term "feminism" really conveys the true nature of the things for which we use that name is not among the main reasons for this thread, but I thought that some information about it could nevertheless be useful for those who are interested:

The Utopian Socialist and French philosopher Charles Fourier is credited with having originated the word "feminism" in 1837.[3] The words "feminism" and "feminist" first appeared in France and the Netherlands in 1872,[4] Great Britain in the 1890s, and the United States in 1910.,[5][6] and the Oxford English Dictionary lists 1894 as the year of the first appearance of "feminist" and 1895 for "feminism".[7] Today the Oxford English Dictionary defines a feminist as "an advocate or supporter of the rights and equality of women".[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

The bracketed numbers are footnotes in which sources are provided on Wikipedia.

I am looking forward to reading more contributions on the topic of this thread (see post #1).

 

[Archivist]

It's tricky, because Feminism itself seems to be radically divided even among themselves. For example, I've heard feminists abolish Playboy as it reduces women to mere sexual objects and not be seen as a real person. Yet other feminists find that it actually is empowering for women to own and control their sexuality and how they choose to be seen, if, where, and when.

I have heard feminists who have disapproved of Playboy because it objectifies women. I don't know of anyone who has "abolished" Playboy as you claim--it is still published in the US.

They seem to want an acknowledgement of equal rights, yet also insist on special needs. For example, if women truly wanted to be equal to men, why are men ? It's her body? Ok, fine. But her decision to carry it to term and raise the baby means he has no choice, only an obligation to support it financially for 18 years, or go to prison.

Except in cases where a woman holds a gun on a man and forces him to have sex with her, men are not "left out of the decision making proess regarding pregnancy." They made their choice when they chose to engage in sexual activity.

I find the dual nature of feminism fascinating as women want to portray an image of assertiveness, but also maintain that they are weak and often victims. Take date rape charges. It is actually policy that if a woman consumes alcohol and consents to have sex, she is legally defined as raped as alcohol would impare her judgement. Think about that for a moment. You go to a nightclub, you and her have a few drinks, chat it up, and one thing leads to another, and soon your back at her place. In the morning, she may regret what's she's done, and the law would protect her, claiming she was impaired. The man, who consumed just as much alcohol, is still expected to behave in a manner of sobriety and viewed as having sound judgement.

It is a question of consent. In most jusisdictions a contract is voidable if the contracting party is intoxicated.

Feminists are also quick to point out that they make 25% less in the workforce than men in positions of exeutive management. Yet they omit how much more it costs a company to hire and maintain a female employee. For example, if a woman is pregnant, she can take Maternity leave, often for months. Yet not only does the company still have to pay her during this time, they also have to hire a temp to fill in the role she left vacant, plus according to FMLA, her position must remain in place upon her return, or at least a new position of equal pay/responsibility must be created. If an average woman has 3 kids during her Career, that can equate to over a year of collecting a paycheck and not producing anything. Now, imagine if said company had dozens of women at that level. Yes, some companies that claim to be progressive do also offer Paternity leave for fathers, but this is usually only a week or two.

Actually it is a question of state law or company policy as to whether maternity leave must be paid.

From my own perspective as a man of faith, who is an American, my regards on feminism is this. I believe we all have the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. While I do not condone discrimination, I do recognize that men and women are different. They have different needs then men, and thus should be treated differently.

Specifically how?

For example; I will hold open the door, pull out a chair, stand up as you excuse yourself from the table, and hold an umbrella over you while I get soaked. I do this out of respect for your gender, not because I feel women are weaker, or need protected. Some feminists would agree with me, others wouldn't. Of course, I am only speaking for myself as a Christian, and not the entirety of Christians, but if I were a gambling man, I'd bet the majority are similar.

If I'm the first person to a door I usually hold it open for whoever is behind me, be they male or female. Why not just be polite to everyone?

 

[childofdust]

Within Christian faith, the emergence of feminism can be nothing more than part of the incoming of the kingdom of god within the world because it seeks to address the other half of humanity, which has not only been neglected, but outright distorted and dehumanised by male-centeredness throughout most of human history--and even within the church. The “image of god” is most perfect and most manifest when both males and females (“male and female he created them&#8221 are regarded and treated with equal respect to their genders.

Outside of Christian faith, feminism is merely a political tool and like all other political tools wielded by those who do not believe, feminism may end up with as many problems as solutions. I believe in feminism because I believe that both genders partake equally in the image of god. Those who do not believe this and have no desire to follow Yeshua are bound to submit their feminist impulses to ways that are neither righteous nor ultimately rewarding either in this world or the world to come.

 

[Erth]

Within Christian faith, the emergence of feminism can be nothing more than part of the incoming of the kingdom of god within the world because it seeks to address the other half of humanity, which has not only been neglected, but outright distorted and dehumanised by male-centeredness throughout most of human history--and even within the church. The “image of god” is most perfect and most manifest when both males and females (“male and female he created them”) are regarded and treated with equal respect to their genders.

Please give examples of the bolded part; please explain what proof there is that women were neglected, distorted and dehumanised, and please explain and exemplify what you mean by "male-centeredness". Please focus on the Church if you can.

 

[Erth]

I agree, the word feminism is not the best word to express the concept of equal rights for men and women.

probably the word came to being by accident because the issue would have been discussed using the words "women's rights" (after all, the lack of rights for women was the starting point for the movement).

But yes, "equalism" or something similar would probably be better!!

And I'm all for it,whether you call it feminism or equalism or whatever - as God is, I believe.

What is the most important issue today on which feminism tries to give women equal rights where they do not already have that, in your opinion?

 

[jak]

There is still a lot of gender injustice around. Small things and big.

Starting from names - you may call it a small thing, but its kind of irritating that women don't even have a permanent second name, its borrowed from dad, and then husband.

Women are not acknowledged in the naming of their children - in public, the child belongs only to the father, the mother could be anyone, her name is not known when the child's name is used. The father is acknowledged, though. It is rather unfair, isn't it?

These are not small things. Our names are our identity. I got a real shock when I got married, and soon after the receipts to a para-church organisation that I (not my husband, I!) used to support came back as Mr. and Mrs My -husband's-name. Suddenly, it was like i wasn't there anymore. I was just an addendum. It shook me to the core, so much so, that i decided to keep using my maiden name, (i had been undecided about it earlier) and refusing to write Mrs Husband's name. Why should I? I love my husband, he loves me and is totally supportive. We don't need to write Mrs to validate anything. I'm just me.

Oh, there arebigger things, but this small thing is indicative of a very basic way our society undermines women - by denying us a permanent name!! Or any share in our children's names.

 

[jak]

I'm sorry, I didn't really answer your question. That's because its not as if there is one big issue. Big or small, all the issues boil down to patriarchy, a male-first (maybe just by one degree!) mindset. That IS the issue. All other issues are due to that. That's what we have to bring to awareness, and resist.

 

[x141]

En-equality comes in many forms, but when equality comes at the price of another's, whether in truth or just a perceived truth, it merely creates more en-equality. Labor of thought does not bring rest.

The realm we live our life out in, is the feminine.

 

[Archivist]

There is still a lot of gender injustice around. Small things and big. Starting from names - you may call it a small thing, but its kind of irritating that women don't even have a permanent second name, its borrowed from dad, and then husband.

And who is traditionally given away in a Christian wedding? Is it the groom? No, it is the bride, an antiquated tradition from the days when women were their father's property until they got married and became their husband's property. The bride was literally given away in exchange for a dowry.

Is this a harmless tradition? Perhpas, but I would argue that it the roles were reversed and it was men who were given away the custom would have been abolished years ago.

BTW, This has been removed from the marriage ceremony contained in the ELCA Book of Worship.

 

[jak]

Oh yeah, the wedding service is replete with stupid, sexist but actually very powerful symbolism. We could probably have a thread on which was the worst!

 

[x141]

Whose name do we take when we are married to the Son ... everything in creation not only relates, but has one purpose, even to the revealing of this one truth who is God.

 

[Erth]

More views and Christian perspectives on feminism, please?

A Christian perspective has to be a perspective based on Christian principles, Christian sources, Christian traditions, etc. When you post your views, please tell us what it is that makes your perspective a Christian perspective.

 

[revhewett]

Anything that puts a division between God's creation as humans is not a good thing. Included in this is any kind of prejudice - racism, sexism, etc.

Concerning racism, only one race was ever created. God does not mention a "skin color" therefore we can devise that its not important. The only race is the human race. Any division placed beyond that is to our demise.

Contrary to popular culture, God did make different genders. Not one to be more important than the other, but for them to work equally. There ARE gender roles - but that is not meant to be a cause of one being more "important" than the other.

For more information, look up a book called God Behaving Badly. It changed my perspective on many details.

 

[jak]

There ARE gender roles - but that is not meant to be a cause of one being more "important" than the other.

Problem is, no one has yet satisfactorily defined what those are - just about everything one gender can do, which was thought to be THEIR role, the other can and does do, and as well. About the only thing left which is specific to either sex is having babies, nursing them, and maybe throwing tree-trunks

 

[Trailltrader]

Feminism as originally envisioned was a good thing; voting, engineering, and in the work force was a great thing. Should be equal pay for equal work.

However, modern feminism has been hijacked by the lesbians- the National Organization for Women has over 55% lesbians who have been setting the agenda for every woman in the United States. This has resulted in a few things: children are being ignored and called "latch key kids" with the death of the traditional family. Ugly women now stay in the work force while good looking women intentionally will find a guy, get married and then leave the work force.

The current backlash against feminism is quite apparent: men are tired of womens noise and will get wifes from Russia, Asia or South America- a few from Europe. American women wanted equal rights and they got equal rights- they've been "offshored" and replaced.

As far as men's concepts on feminism? Look up the "Peter Pan Principal' online- theres zero reason for any boy to leave his parents basement. White men can't get a decent job- minorities and women have prevented that. Theres no incentive for boys to leave home- after all, they can have sex without being married so why move out?

The "Peter Pan Principal" is a real, legitimate fear- and sociologists are now in a real honest to goodness panic.