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The earth shall reel to and fro

Jipsah

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The Word declares that the earth is fixed in place but that the heavens revolve around the earth
Sure, just as we say that the sun rose or set, when technically speaking that isn't what's happening. I don't go to the Bible for engineering data.

There is not one Scripture anywhere that states that the earth moves, spins, rotates, revolves or tilts.
But it does anyway.

Earth is not a planet
It's actually a variety of squash.:thumbsup:
 
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LastSeven

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The Word declares that the earth is fixed in place but that the heavens revolve around the earth; and the sun, moon and stars stars follow their own peculiar paths in the revolving heavens which revolve around the earth from the beginning of creation, when the heavens and earth were made and the heavens were stretched out from the earth between the divided in two waters around the earth, on day two; and the sun and moon were made and set in the revolving heavens on day 4 of creation week.

There is not one Scripture anywhere that states that the earth moves, spins, rotates, revolves or tilts.

The first chapter of Genesis declares the earth is the beginning poiint for the stretched out heavens, which are stretched out between the divided in two waters of creation; and in them, the stars, sun, and moon have their own peculiar orbits.

Waters is "mayim". Heaven is "shamayim" in Genesis, and the "sha" denotes the division of the waters in that the sign for that letter was first depicting two front teeth -the incisors. The waters are "cut/divided in two"; and in the stretched out firmament between the waters, the stars, sun, and moon have their own orbits, and they control earth's climate, years, and seasons for earth.
Earth is not a planet, in Scripture. Planet means wanderer, and only the stars with no light of their own wander in peculiar orbits and also control events on earth.

You might benefit by looking into the electric universe "theory" which is actually a biblical doctrine, though the proponets are not Bible believers, esp.


That doesn't actually answer my question - "Where does it say that the earth does not move, spin, rotate or tilt?" This implies of course that the sun orbits around the earth and that the earth is actually the center of the universe.

I just read through the creation part of Genesis again and the closest evidence I could find of this theory is that the earth was created before the sun, which means it would make more sense that the later creations (sun and planets) orbit around the earlier creation (earth) as opposed to the other way around. If I was creating a solar system, I would start in the middle and work my way out. However, I would hardly call this anything resembling proof. I also did not see anything about the sun or moon in peculiar orbits, nor anything about the earth being stationary.

So, other than the earth being created before the sun, what scripture supports this idea?
 
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yeshuasavedme

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That doesn't actually answer my question - "Where does it say that the earth does not move, spin, rotate or tilt?" This implies of course that the sun orbits around the earth and that the earth is actually the center of the universe.

I just read through the creation part of Genesis again and the closest evidence I could find of this theory is that the earth was created before the sun, which means it would make more sense that the later creations (sun and planets) orbit around the earlier creation (earth) as opposed to the other way around. If I was creating a solar system, I would start in the middle and work my way out. However, I would hardly call this anything resembling proof. I also did not see anything about the sun or moon in peculiar orbits, nor anything about the earth being stationary.

So, other than the earth being created before the sun, what scripture supports this idea?
There is not one -not one- not even one!- Scripture that states the earth has a course to run in the heavens, or that it tilts, spins/ rotates or revolves. -Not one, not even one: but the Word tells us that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, and runs its course in the heavens, as the stars and moon also do. The stars have courses -the dark stars [planets] wander in peculiar paths- and they control the seasons and climate and years for earth.


Look at Genesis again, with me, and see what is there about what and when: heavens and earth created -together, and reverse mention of them -earth and heavens, in chapter 2 showing that they are of a piece -and later verses prove it so.
Gen 2:4
These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens...

Now look at these facts in the first chapter:
1 no light when they were created, then light created and the revolution of the heavens is already established because the evening/night and morning/day is "one Day".

2 heavens are not stretched out and only water is seen below them.

3 firmament/heavens are stretched out on day 2, from earth, between divided waters. Firmament is called Heaven/Sha-mayim. Waters are called Mayim: -the waters were divided [denoted by the letter which depicted two front teeth], so we have sha-mayim, which also means "two waters" and I say, "as divided by the cutting of them and the lifting of the half waters above them, as they are stretched out".
The description of the making of the heavens in Scripture is of them being stretched out from the earth, for their furnishing of them, or "garnishing" of them.

The Ancient Hebrew Letters
[FONT=Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, Georgia]The Ancient picture for this letter is
heb_early_21.jpg
, a picture of the two front teeth. This letter has the meanings of teeth, sharp and press (from the function of the teeth when chewing). It also has the meaning of two, again, both or second from the two teeth.
[/FONT]
So the heavens were not stretched out until day 2, and half the waters of creation are lifted above them, from earth below.

The sun and moon were made and set in the stretched out heavens on day 4, and they govern the light by day and by night.

In the Word, the sun itself is not a star, but a crystal and fire "Menorah" -which gathers the light into itself and refracts it back out to the universe itself.

The sun has a course to run, and nothing in the creation is hid from its heat.
The earth never runs a course through the heavens and is declared to be fixed in place and to not move.
The sun rises in the east, through many windows ordained for its course, and sets in the west, turning in a northerly direction to enter the eastern window of its season. It's own peculiar path in the heavens caused unbelieving men to decide the earth tilts back and forth -which is not biblical in the least, and is anti-biblical.

If you want a course on the movement of the heavenly bodies in the stretched out heavens read about it in the book of Enoch, which is "Scripture" in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and always has been in their collection of books even from before they received the Gospel in the first century, because they were exiled Jews who had Enoch -like all studying Jews once did- and they read it.
The Jews of Jesus days of walking the earth had Enoch and read it. It is in the DSS Bible collection, and the heavenly courses of the bodies is described in it.
The Book of Enoch, Translated by Robert H. Charles, 1912
The Geocentric Calendar Book* (Chapters 72-82)
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Isaiah talks about the earth reeling to and fro and that we are the cause of this problem.

I'm interested to hear what you think it is that would cause the earth to behave this way.
Isa 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Isa 13:14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

The Scriptures say the earth will jump about as a chased roe. A roe is a gazelle and in the short video below [less than a minute and a half], the springbok, being hunted by cheetahs, show their amazing ability to jump about, and gives you an understanding of the earth jumping about like a chased gazelle, in the day of wrath/tribulation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sl250079Kk
 
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guysmith

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Isaiah talks about the earth reeling to and fro and that we are the cause of this problem.

I'm interested to hear what you think it is that would cause the earth to behave this way.

Hello Brian,

If you continue reading down to verse 23 you will see that part of this prophecy includes the "moon" being confounded and the "sun" ashamed.

Isaiah 24:
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.


I suggest a word search using "moon" and the "sun."


My take on it is Revelation 8 where 1/3 of the planet is destroyed by what Rev 8:8 describes as a burning mountain.


In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 
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Interplanner

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Beware of literalism, though. The only thing that could make the earth tilt is that building in Shanghai which is taking so much steel that the world price of steel will be affected! LOL.

As the beginning of the thread says, these expressions are about the moral condition of Israel. Try some early chapters of Jeremiah. You'll find all kinds of 'physical' anomalies but he is talking about the degeneration.

We don't want to make the mistake of the disciples when they said 'the master is upset with us for not bringing bread' when what he was talking about was the Pharisee hypocrisy, Mk 8.
 
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keras

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Most Bible scholars say: If there IS a literal explanation for what the Bible tells us, then that is the correct interpretation. Inter. you are quite wrong with your 'Shanghai theory'. :) because in fact an asteroid or comet strike could do it, but the Lord Himself will instigate it ' on the Day of His blazing anger'. Isaiah 13:13
What this will be is clearly told us in Isaiah 30:26-28. A coronal mass ejection of unprecedented magnitude WILL cause the earth to reel and shudder. It is His terrible and shocking judgement of the nations, Isaiah 66:15-16 That will ' reset civilization', and allow the rise of the Anti-Christ. The Lord's people will travel to and settle in the holy Land. Isaiah 66:18-21
 
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Interplanner

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Keras,
But Isaiah was talking about the morality of his people. That's why at the beginning of the thread, I suggested people read the 1st 10 chapters of Jeremiah to realize that this is done all the time in the prophets. Striking visual images are thrown about the conditions of these people's hearts.

As for literalism, it destroys many figures of speech. Good scholars recognize they exist and keep them intact.

What do you think happened in Mk 8 mentioned above? This kind of thing happens about twice a chapter in the gospel of John--crass literalism by the Pharisees has to be overturned over and over.
 
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keras

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I am glad we are discussing preterism versus futureism in a rational manner. It may be off thread a little, but is vital to understanding end times events.
Yes, Inter, with prophecy quite a lot is allegory or metaphors, but they are given to us in a way that can be figured out by anyone. Just like the parables, the Jews knew He was talking about them, in the owner of the vineyard parable. Luke 20:19
So if you wish to deny that God will judge and punish the nations, those who attack Israel as per Psalm 83, to make prophecies that can happen literally into just admonitions for us to get right with the Lord, then you are like those in Ezekiel 33:30-33
 
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Interplanner

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Keras,
I don't know why I should hold the two assumptions in the above post:
1, the 'resumption' significance of modern Israel: as though it was to be treated as being exactly where everthing left off in the old covenant. I'm sure you've heard of the new covenant. And by the way, in light of AD 70, where did it leave off? Huge question.

2, that we validate imprecatory psalms. You may have heard of Christ who did not teach imprecation like Ps 83 does. He told people to help the soldiers who were occupying their country; that's because his people had a different mission than freedom-fighting anyway.

3, that the judgement day of God has to be Judaic, ie, located in the dealings of nations with Israel. For one thing, how many people personally make those decisions. There is definitely a judgement day, but I don't see where the criterion is how one deals with modern Israel, as I read Rom 1-3 about the day of God's wrath and justice. And since there is a very different understanding of Israel in the present Messianic age in Eph 2-3.
 
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Luvtosew

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Beware of literalism, though. The only thing that could make the earth tilt is that building in Shanghai which is taking so much steel that the world price of steel will be affected! LOL.

As the beginning of the thread says, these expressions are about the moral condition of Israel. Try some early chapters of Jeremiah. You'll find all kinds of 'physical' anomalies but he is talking about the degeneration.

We don't want to make the mistake of the disciples when they said 'the master is upset with us for not bringing bread' when what he was talking about was the Pharisee hypocrisy, Mk 8.

I agree, the people are acting like heathens, and they really felt God used bad weather to punish them and Isa is warning them , earthquakes, famine, darkness comes to mind. No sun no food, no heat, moon causing floods.

Some people today still feel that way.
 
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Interplanner

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Luvtosew,
just to be clear: the difference is between thinking the Bible in Jer 1-10, as an ex., is mostly giving us descriptions of unusual geo-physical events rather than saying the people of Israel were in moral chaos. some of the readers here go a long ways into the geo-physical phenomenon, which is not the point.
 
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Luvtosew

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Luvtosew,
just to be clear: the difference is between thinking the Bible in Jer 1-10, as an ex., is mostly giving us descriptions of unusual geo-physical events rather than saying the people of Israel were in moral chaos. some of the readers here go a long ways into the geo-physical phenomenon, which is not the point.

Oh ok. got cha.:)
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Oh ok. got cha.:)
He's wrong.
The earth will be turned upside down. North will be South and South will be North.
Seasons will be backwards.
Fruits will not appear in their season.
Stars will fall from heaven to earth and not appear in their order, and men will take them to be gods and make images to them and worship them.
The earth will jump about like a hunted Gazelle and will be moved out of its fixed place.

Days and nights will be shortened in hours by one third of their parts =16 hour days are coming during that time.

Tsunamis, earthquakes storms, floods, winds, plagues, pestilences, famine, fires, droughts, hail stones a hundred lb weight, and much more is a-coming:
and that is
Totally
geo-physical!
 
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keras

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Thanks y.s.m. Yes, when we see over 100 prophecies throughout the Bible, telling us about a terrible and shocking Day not fulfilled in the past, that must still be future; then saying it is just 'moral chaos', has to be wrong.
The Psalms have a lot of prophecy. Asaph the writer of 83 was a prophet, So was David.
Re: the modern State of Israel. Be aware that their citizens are Jews, that is of the tribe of Judah and Benjamin. In 160 verses the Bible makes the distinction between Judah and Israel. So the fact is that the prophecies pertaining to Israel are not referring to the Jews, but to the 'lost tribes' scattered around the world. Only God knows who they are. Amos 9:9
 
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