‘Sell all you have, and give to the poor'

[LottyH]

The term 'Sunday best' comes from a time, not at all long ago, when clothes were very expensive indeed. The making was cheap, but the cost of the fabric out of reach of most people. It is a term used of and by poor people, not rich ones.

This is not as long ago as we might imagine. In A Christmas Carol Charles Dickens talks of people - Mrs Bob Crachit for one - wearing 'thrice turned' clothes, and her son having to borrow his father's one and only collar to wear on Christmas Day. In Little Dorrit the heroine wears the same dress for years on end; she makes shirts for her father but she only has one dress.

Turned clothes were those which had been undone at all the seams and made up again inside out, because the fabric inside was not as worn as that on the outside. Thrice turned is a garment to which this has been done three times; each time in an effort not to look quite so threadbare. Hats and seams would be brushed with shoe blacking, holes darned or patched over and over.

In such an age, people would make a real effort to have two sets of clothes, and would count themselves fortunate if they did. They would then wear one set during the week, and the best set on a Sunday, either to church or to sit at home. Most would try not to work if they could.

Mrs Bob Crachit does not have two sets of clothes, only one. When she wants to look presentable on Christmas Day she has to resort to sixpence worth of ribbons, and her daughter does the same.

So, Sunday best is your second best suit of clothes or dress when you have only two. At the point your working clothes actually fall to pieces and can be no longer turned, it becomes your working dress, and you then attempt to afford another set of clothes for Sunday best. Not everyone could manage it. Even those who could might well resort to pawning their Sunday clothes to get them through the week, redeeming them on Friday or Saturday, when they got paid, and perhaps pawning them again the next week.

In our time fabric has become very much cheaper, and we all have far more clothes than we could ever wear out. We no longer 'turn' clothes because the cost of doing so is more expensive than the cost of new clothes.

After clothes were worn out completely they would still not be wasted. In my great grandparents' time the fabric would be cut into strips and made into raggy rugs. They were coal miners. Every year there would be a new rug. At Christmas the best would go on the parents' bed, the one from the bed put onto the front room floor, the one from the front room moved to the kitchen, the one in the kitchen perhaps passed to a poorer family. A new raggy rug would then be started, and made by the kitchen fire by the wife, as she waited for her sons and husband to come home from work.

Very often wives with a husband and sons at work never went to bed; they slept in a rocking chair by the fire, because they were constantly waiting to meet those coming home from different shifts at the local pit. And in between they made raggy rugs from scraps of worn out clothing.

Sunday best is not an affectation of smart clothes to impress our neighbours. It is an attempt to have something decent to wear on a Sunday, at a time when it would not have been acceptable to wear working clothes to go to church. Working clothes would have been far too dirty, far too shabby, and the people would have had more pride than to wear them in the House of God.

Thanks Catherineanne, what a graphic description of how life has changed - well, for the majority of us living in developed countries anyway

 

[LottyH]

so youre pastor was committing fraud and you made no attempt to bring criminal charges ?

I've been thinking a lot about your question, its certainly thought provoking. Imagine if every church made their pastor accountable for their every word and deed, imagine the outcome.

 

[LottyH]

James speaks on behalf of those in vile clothing (specifically so) coming into the assembly.

Now, I personally havent even seen this. However, folks (today) will get on ya for not coming into the assembly with what is not vile/ dirty (of which) James speaks up for.

Today, folks can sometimes treat you as the dirt on their holier then thou shoes for wearing what is clean (not vile) jeans and tees

If James speaks of not to discriminate even against vile/ dirty clothes (back then) why on earth would anyone take up one above that and believe its ok to be against what is clean (and not vile)?

Or just not up to par with their own stuff? (which you arent even slightly interested in wearing)

Im more comfortable in jeans and tees, if someone else is not, by all means wear something that makes you comfortable or which you feel either honors God or just impresses the heck out of Him.

Yes, imagine if a man came into the church who smelt vile and dirty with shredded clothes. And one of the congregation welcomed him and said please please come sit next to me in the front row. Would this ever happen in reality? Maybe, but how many? I think God is really good at striking at the heart of man.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, imagine if a man came into the church who smelt vile and dirty with shredded clothes. And one of the congregation welcomed him and said please please come sit next to me in the front row. Would this ever happen in reality? Maybe, but how many? I think God is really good at striking at the heart of man.

They dont even want you sitting next to them showered and in clean jeans, I cant imagine.

I was thinking of just that too while posting

 

[LottyH]

They dont even want you sitting next to them showered and in clean jeans, I cant imagine.

I was thinking of just that too while posting

Hmm that's terrible treating you like that. I'm glad you stuck with the Lord even though his sheep weren't being a good example.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Hmm that's terrible treating you like that. I'm glad you stuck with the Lord even though his sheep weren't being a good example.

Never throw the baby out with the bath water

 

[LottyH]

Never throw the baby out with the bath water

Many people throw out the baby too, glad you had more sense!

 

[Fireinfolding]

Many people throw out the baby too, glad you had more sense!

Yeah me too sis. Its hard not to, I do sympathize with some folks who have been put through the wringer by those whose ways bring him shame.

Seems to speak similarly of much the same here

2Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

 

[LottyH]

Yeah me too sis. Its hard not to, I do sympathize with some folks who have been put through the wringer by those whose ways bring him shame.

Seems to speak similarly of much the same here

2Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

So true. So many warnings about false prophets yet the sheep are still being led astray. I sympathise also for those that had bad experiences, yet I don't relate to it as I have always had a separate idea of who God is even if it doesn't match with the flock's behaviour so bad experiences haven't changed my views on God.

 

[Fireinfolding]

So true. So many warnings about false prophets yet the sheep are still being led astray. I sympathise also for those that had bad experiences, yet I don't relate to it as I have always had a separate idea of who God is even if it doesn't match with the flock's behaviour so bad experiences haven't changed my views on God.

Best follow the shepherd of the sheep not the sheep always, occupy the same pen maybe huh?

 

[LottyH]

Best follow the shepherd of the sheep not the sheep always, occupy the same pen maybe huh?

Yes, that's true. I think a lot of churches give the impression that the sheep are unable to hear or understand anything so need a pastor/priest to explain everything. This leads to people relying on other Christians for advice/direction rather than reading the bible for themselves without the influence of other peoples interpretations.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, that's true. I think a lot of churches give the impression that the sheep are unable to hear or understand anything so need a pastor/priest to explain everything. This leads to people relying on other Christians for advice/direction rather than reading the bible for themselves without the influence of other peoples interpretations.

I never understood wanting to do that either, I would much rather get something firsthand of the Lord then second hand. I cant tell you how much crap I would have swallowed hook line and sinker, if I took others words for things (with a spin). Though there was a time much earlier on it was harder coming (at least in as straightly). Like when its harder to discern your left from your right so much. You can pick up angles better, or feel them out (or coming at you) better later on. But I have found the greatest benefits (even for myself) come from those who seek the Lord for themselves. I believe because they know that benefit, even as I know that same benefit, that becomes as benficial towards me. And over a course of time its like (at least for me) I can pick it up in their speech. And it doesnt necessarily matter where they are (or their personalities) they can be different (or diverse) in various ways, but they are walking blessings (at least they are to me).

I love the dynamic of the body of Christ that way

 

[LottyH]

I never understood wanting to do that either, I would much rather get something firsthand of the Lord then second hand. I cant tell you how much crap I would have swallowed hook line and sinker, if I took others words for things (with a spin). Though there was a time much earlier on it was harder coming (at least in as straightly). Like when its harder to discern your left from your right so much. You can pick up angles better, or feel them out (or coming at you) better later on. But I have found the greatest benefits (even for myself) come from those who seek the Lord for themselves. I believe because they know that benefit, even as I know that same benefit, that becomes as benficial towards me. And over a course of time its like (at least for me) I can pick it up in their speech. And it doesnt necessarily matter where they are (or their personalities) they can be different (or diverse) in various ways, but they are walking blessings (at least they are to me).

I love the dynamic of the body of Christ that way

You have many words of wisdom, sister! Shouldn't you be asleep by now or have I got my timezones wrong? Always good chatting to you, I'm going food shopping now, speak to you next time

 

[ThunderTongue]

You definitely can tell when someone has gotten their revelation from a personal walk with God, and when they are merely repeating Christian cliches like a parrot. That's fine (and even encouraged) with new believers of 2 yrs or less...but there comes a time to eat directly from his table, letting him feed you what YOU need from his word, and his direct word to you.

There are many many spiritually infant Christians because they wait until Sunday morning to get fed when, like our natural bodies, we need spiritual food for our spirits at least every other day if not EVERY.

The word of God is so alive when read through his spiritual eyes. The same verse can have 7 different lessons in it, and each new reading can deliver a revelation into Gods attributes and character never noticed before

 

[LottyH]

You definitely can tell when someone has gotten their revelation from a personal walk with God, and when they are merely repeating Christian cliches like a parrot. That's fine (and even encouraged) with new believers of 2 yrs or less...but there comes a time to eat directly from his table, letting him feed you what YOU need from his word, and his direct word to you.

There are many many spiritually infant Christians because they wait until Sunday morning to get fed when, like our natural bodies, we need spiritual food for our spirits at least every other day if not EVERY.

The word of God is so alive when read through his spiritual eyes. The same verse can have 7 different lessons in it, and each new reading can deliver a revelation into Gods attributes and character never noticed before

Yes, God's word is truly alive. I remember when I first became a Christian I found it difficult and often boring to read the bible and couldn't understand anything except maybe psalms and proverbs. Any understanding I gained was influenced by sermons at church. I got to a point in my life where I just wanted the truth even if it meant admitting my beliefs were wrong. I threw everything out and started again from scratch. I decided to start reading the bible with the sole motive of trying to find the heart of God, e.g. what pleased him, what were things he hated - who is he? I read the bible in a completely different light and it was incredible how the word of God just opened up to me in a new way. Its truly living, there is no other book like it.

 

[ThunderTongue]

Yes, God's word is truly alive. I remember when I first became a Christian I found it difficult and often boring to read the bible and couldn't understand anything except maybe psalms and proverbs. Any understanding I gained was influenced by sermons at church. I got to a point in my life where I just wanted the truth even if it meant admitting my beliefs were wrong. I threw everything out and started again from scratch. I decided to start reading the bible with the sole motive of trying to find the heart of God, e.g. what pleased him, what were things he hated - who is he? I read the bible in a completely different light and it was incredible how the word of God just opened up to me in a new way. Its truly living, there is no other book like it.

Amen bro. It's like the book is written in code that you need certain "glasses" to read. People often jump right in, approaching it as "easy reading" when it is anything but that.

 

[shturt678]

Right now I feel like the rich man that went away sorrowful after hearing Jesus say that to him. (Matt 19:21,22)

Although I’m not rich by western standards I am so filthy rich compared with so many millions of people in the world that have nothing. I just feel so blessed to be born in a rich country but I feel that I have a greater responsibility before God in how I live my life and how I spend my money.

‘..For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required..’ Luke 12:48

The thought of continuing to live a ‘normal,’ happy, prosperous life, buying new things, going on holiday, etc etc makes me feel ill inside because I feel such a great burden and responsibility. I hate what I see in this world like materialism, corruption, greed, selfishness and people being exploited. The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer – I just hate it. Yet if I lived like those in a developing country I would be miserable because I would miss all the comforts that I currently have.

Jesus said sell all you have, give to the poor and come follow me. If Jesus was here in person I would drop everything without hesitation and follow Him. However I think (ye of little faith) that if I walked out the door right now with just the shirt on my back that I would just fall flat on my face and be among the thousands of other homeless poor people out there.

Please note I’m not just talking about one scripture here, the same messages of self denial, for example, ‘pick up your cross’ and ‘whoever shall lose his life shall find it’, and the rebukes to the rich are throughout the whole of the new testament. Most of Jesus teachings are not taught in churches because He gives a lot of warnings which are not popular feel good messages. So I’m not expecting many people to understand where I am coming from.

But please respond if you can relate to this?

May I not prove "faithless," especially in light of different degrees of suffering forever, eg, Lk.12:45, etc., with a valid interpretation of course. I did have a question:

One's "faithfulness," "picking up one's cross," and etc. must be based upon the Word of God, correct? Do you folks consider the Bible = Word of God?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Shows both are, when speaking of that which Moses commanded they were making the word of God of none effect

Mark 17:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Even as his name is called the Word of God

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

To abide in Christ (The Word) and his words (which were not his own) makes the same the words of God by the mouth of The Word of God. Who also references them making the word of God of none effect.

 

[LottyH]

Amen bro. It's like the book is written in code that you need certain "glasses" to read. People often jump right in, approaching it as "easy reading" when it is anything but that.

Praise God, it took a long time but He eventually gave me the glasses!

 

[LottyH]

May I not prove "faithless," especially in light of different degrees of suffering forever, eg, Lk.12:45, etc., with a valid interpretation of course. I did have a question:

One's "faithfulness," "picking up one's cross," and etc. must be based upon the Word of God, correct? Do you folks consider the Bible = Word of God?

Yes bible = word of God. But sorry, I'm not sure what you are asking exactly... Hopefully Fireinfolding has clarified?