Israel and Indians

[HannibalFlavius]

I have heard and read a lot about Hebrew writings found among native American Indians and I figure the experts here might give their good opinion what they think of it.

First I heard that the nation of Israel were accepting members of the Cherokee nation{which I am a member} because they accepted the idea that Indians may well be Israelites because of Hebrew writings found amongst them.

That Indians have similar traditions with hair and smoke and other things.

I was wondering if anyone knows whether these reports were true or not.

Anything between Israel and Native Americans?

 

[xDenax]

I have never heard anything of the sort except from mormons.

 

[visionary]

This might be a link... Oldest known 10 Commandments is in America, in Ancient Hebrew Script-From time of king Solomon | Godssecret's Weblog

 

[visionary]

I have never heard anything of the sort except from mormons.

Like this...Was There Hebrew Language in Ancient America? An Interview with Brian Stubbs - John L. Sorenson, and Brian D. Stubbs - Journal of Book of Mormon Studies - Volume 9 - Issue 2

 

[sevengreenbeans]

I also have Cherokee/Choctaw ancestry. My grandfather is aware of Hebrew found among the artifacts of the tribe. His family was from GA and my grandfather was raised in Shady Point/Poteau, OK area.

A few links to Rabbi Lazer Brody's website:

Lazer Beams: The River's Song

Lazer Beams: The Trail of Tears - part 5: Ingathering of the exiles

Lazer Beams: The Trail of Tears - part one: The Indian Removal Act of 1830 and The Jewish Removal Act (Disengagement) of 2005

Lazer Beams: "The Trail of Tears", part 2: American Indians liberated Dachau

Lazer Beams: The Trail of Tears, part 3: The Cherokees, a lost tribe of Israel?

Lazer Beams: The Trail of Tears, part 4: Birds of a feather
(This is the most interesting article, as relating to your OP)

Lazer Beams: "The Trail of Tears" revisited

 

[sevengreenbeans]

This might be a link... Oldest known 10 Commandments is in America, in Ancient Hebrew Script-From time of king Solomon | Godssecret's Weblog

Here in NM, we have a paleo-Hebrew carving...

Los Lunas Decalogue Stone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Los Lunas Decalogue - Translation

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Anything between Israel and Native Americans?

Some threads you probably would be interested in:

• Cherokee - one of the lost tribes??
• Native American Jews: What do Messianics Think of Torah in the New World? ( #19 )

 

[Shimshon]

I have heard and read a lot about Hebrew writings found among native American Indians and I figure the experts here might give their good opinion what they think of it.

First I heard that the nation of Israel were accepting members of the Cherokee nation{which I am a member} because they accepted the idea that Indians may well be Israelites because of Hebrew writings found amongst them.

That Indians have similar traditions with hair and smoke and other things.

I was wondering if anyone knows whether these reports were true or not.

Anything between Israel and Native Americans?

Yes, there is. If you study our Jewish history you'll learn about The Spanish Expulsion of 1492. When Columbus came to the Americas he brought with him many sephardic Jews who were fleeing Spain. They influenced and intermarried within the native cultures here. I have a sephardic heritage on my mothers side because of this. I'm part Taino/sephardi (mother), part Polish/Hugary/ashkenai (father).

The Spanish Expulsion, 1492

In the same month in which their Majesties [Ferdinand and Isabella] issued the edict that all Jews should be driven out of the kingdom and its territories, in the same month they gave me the order to undertake with sufficient men my expedition of discovery to the Indies." So begins Christopher Columbus's diary. The expulsion that Columbus refers to was so cataclysmic an event that ever since, the date 1492 has been almost as important in Jewish history as in American history. On July 30 of that year, the entire Jewish community, some 200,000 people, were expelled from Spain.
Tens of thousands of refugees died while trying to reach safety. In some instances, Spanish ship captains charged Jewish passengers exorbitant sums, then dumped them overboard in the middle of the ocean. In the last days before the expulsion, rumors spread throughout Spain that the fleeing refugees had swallowed gold and diamonds, and many Jews were knifed to death by brigands hoping to find treasures in their stomachs.
The Jews' expulsion had been the pet project of the Spanish Inquisition, headed by Father Tomas de Torquemada. Torquemada believed that as long as the Jews remained in Spain, they would influence the tens of thousands of recent Jewish converts to Christianity to continue practicing Judaism. Ferdinand and Isabella rejected Torquemada's demand that the Jews be expelled until January 1492, when the Spanish Army defeated Muslim forces in Granada, thereby restoring the whole of Spain to Christian rule. With their most important project, the country's unification, accomplished, the king and queen concluded that the Jews were expendable. On March 30, they issued the expulsion decree, the order to take effect in precisely four months. The short time span was a great boon to the rest of Spain, as the Jews were forced to liquidate their homes and businesses at absurdly low prices. Throughout those frantic months, Dominican priests actively encouraged Jews to convert to Christianity and thereby gain salvation both in this world and the next.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yes, there is. If you study our Jewish history you'll learn about The Spanish Expulsion of 1492. When Columbus came to the Americas he brought with him many sephardic Jews who were fleeing Spain. They influenced and intermarried within the native cultures here. I have a sephardic heritage on my mothers side because of this. I'm part Taino/sephardi (mother), part Polish/Hugary/ashkenai (father).

The Spanish Expulsion, 1492

Thank you for bringing that aspect up - as I was recalling some of the things you had noted before and that had been shared before in regards to Jewish culture in the West Indies - and the ways it intermeshed in the Native populations when Jews sought safety in the New World (with Columbus himself being known amongst many as a Crypto-Jew as well as others who journeyed with him) - more shared in Kosher Pirates: Hebrews on the high seas & seeing if MJs should do the same.. ( #35 ) and here in #167 when sharing on the Taino Indians a part of your Jewish heritage. Even with the Spanish Explusion of 1492, it's amazing to consider the ways it also impacted the West Indies in regards to places like Jamaica and other islands - leading to later developments when it came to people trusting in Messiah and wanting to go back across the Atlantic (more share here in #48 ).

Jewish culture/Messianic Judaism has always had ties to Africa...and by extension, the same goes for what occurs in the West Indies/Islands when studying the history of those transported from Africa to that location. Columbus, who was secretly a Crypto-Jew alongside others fleeing the Spanish Inquisition, ended up making a homeland for the Jewish people in the Caribbean---and thankful for what he was able to accomplish....even though (sadly) the man was essentially a terrorist/conqueror to the New World and he also opened up the door for the mistreatment of numerous blacks/Indigenious peoples in the process(more shared here in #67 ) -- with many Jews playing a big part in that when it came to trade (something that many refuse to address even though there are others seeking to address the subject, more here and here , here, here, here, here, here, here and #30 ). Rabbi Marc Lee Raphael, who authored the book "The Synagogue in America: A Short History" has done some excellent work documenting the issue. ).

Many of the Jewish people mixed in with the Natives/Black slaves and have had a shared identity ever since....with many of the Jewish people choosing piracy to protect themselves from European Imperialism and survive in what was considered a "No Man's Land" by the Old World, the West Indies providing a safe haven - and the sea-faring background they came from being a benefit to the Jewish people in the times they were in (As seen here ).

 

[pat34lee]

Hebrews in Ancient America (Not a Book of Mormon thing) - Nazarene Space

 

[ContraMundum]

I have heard and read a lot about Hebrew writings found among native American Indians and I figure the experts here might give their good opinion what they think of it.

First I heard that the nation of Israel were accepting members of the Cherokee nation{which I am a member} because they accepted the idea that Indians may well be Israelites because of Hebrew writings found amongst them.

That Indians have similar traditions with hair and smoke and other things.

I was wondering if anyone knows whether these reports were true or not.

Anything between Israel and Native Americans?

It doesn't stack up well, I don't think. Seems to be constantly from very suspect sources and there is almost no similarity between Hebrew culture and native American culture, so it seems to me that this is largely speculative.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

I have heard and read a lot about Hebrew writings found among native American Indians and I figure the experts here might give their good opinion what they think of it.

First I heard that the nation of Israel were accepting members of the Cherokee nation{which I am a member} because they accepted the idea that Indians may well be Israelites because of Hebrew writings found amongst them.

That Indians have similar traditions with hair and smoke and other things.

I was wondering if anyone knows whether these reports were true or not.

Anything between Israel and Native Americans?

I heard someone on TV give a sermon about how ancient Phoenicians were great shipbuilders and visited America in King Solomon's time.

[Based on Biblical evidence, from the Scriptures, there can be no doubt. The ancient Israelite kingdom of king Solomon, noted for its wealth, peace, and power, and incredible trade empire, must have been involved in leaving this ancient world-wide evidence behind -- including Hebrew customs, language, and practices.

YEHOVAH God told Ezekiel, "And say to Tyre, 0 you who dwell at entrance to the sea, who are merchants of the peoples of many islands and coastlands. . . The inhabitants of Sion and [the island] of Arvad were your oarsmen; your skilled wise men, O Tyre, were in you, they were your pilots. The old men of Gebal [a city north of Sidon] and its skilled and wise men in you were your calkers; all the ships of the sea with their mariners were in you to deal in your merchandise and trading" (Ezekiel 27:3, 8-9).

Ezekiel goes on, "Your rowers brought you out into the great and deep waters; the east wind has broken and wrecked you in the heart of the seas . . . When your wares came forth from the seas, you met the desire, and the demand, and the necessity of many people; you enriched the KINGS OF THE EARTH with your abundant wealth and merchandise. Now you are shattered by the seas . . ." (vs. 26, 33-34, Amplified Bible).]
Don't think I can post links yet.

 

[aniello]

I've always thought the following portion of Torah was adequate to explain how my oyate got here, but Euro-centric thinkers always conjecture better. I first saw the "Torah stone" about 1955, iirc, on a field trip for a geology class at university. I can reach it by rough back road and a 4-wheel drive of about 45 miles and have probably a dozen times over the years. I have lived in and on the edge of a rez. that abuts this area, for about the last 40 years, off and on, between my younger scrapes and misspent youth.

Dr. Steve Collins, of Trinity Southwest Semitary, has seen this site and commented, as I recall. In actuality most regard it as highly speculative.

Here's the scriptural reference.

Gen 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.


Seems as good as all the hoo-ha that goes on here.

 

[visionary]

Israel - Researchers Find American Indians With Jewish Genetic Markers -- VosIzNeias.com

Israel - Geneticists at an Israeli hospital said they have found a unique Jewish genetic mutation among an American Indian tribe, indicating that they are descendants of Jews expelled from Spain 600 years ago, local Haaretz daily reported on Wednesday.

 

[yonah_mishael]

This reminds me of Mormonism. Seems like odd myths to me. Personally, I have written things in Paleo-Hebrew text. The Decalogue found at Los Lunas is incomplete and seems like someone trying to write the Ten Commandments from memory. We cannot be so ignorant as to think that missionaries were not sent west a few hundred years ago with the gold rush and such. Surely some of the more scholarly among them found Paleo-Hebrew interesting just as many people do today. It’s entirely possible that someone felt the need at that time to write the Ten Commandments from memory in Paleo-Hebrew. (I could do the same thing today and make fewer mistakes in the transmission.) Let a couple of hundred years past and then someone find the stone that I was writing on, and they might claim that it is proof that the Indians were really Jewish!

According to the Mormon claim, these ancient Jewish people actually wrote in “Reformed Egyptian,” not in Paleo-Hebrew. How in the world would Jews have gotten to America before Columbus, who arrived on some Caribbean Islands but surely never got into the desert of the Western United States! And why would Jews from 1492, expelled from Spain, go to the Indian-ruled wild west and write in Paleo-Hebrew? I just don’t get what historical changes might result from this theory of American-Jewish history.

 

[aniello]

This reminds me of Mormonism. Seems like odd myths to me. Personally, I have written things in Paleo-Hebrew text. The Decalogue found at Los Lunas is incomplete and seems like someone trying to write the Ten Commandments from memory. We cannot be so ignorant as to think that missionaries were not sent west a few hundred years ago with the gold rush and such. Surely some of the more scholarly among them found Paleo-Hebrew interesting just as many people do today. It’s entirely possible that someone felt the need at that time to write the Ten Commandments from memory in Paleo-Hebrew. (I could do the same thing today and make fewer mistakes in the transmission.) Let a couple of hundred years past and then someone find the stone that I was writing on, and they might claim that it is proof that the Indians were really Jewish!

According to the Mormon claim, these ancient Jewish people actually wrote in “Reformed Egyptian,” not in Paleo-Hebrew. How in the world would Jews have gotten to America before Columbus, who arrived on some Caribbean Islands but surely never got into the desert of the Western United States! And why would Jews from 1492, expelled from Spain, go to the Indian-ruled wild west and write in Paleo-Hebrew? I just don’t get what historical changes might result from this theory of American-Jewish history.

Ha! I must agree with you Yonah. The Mormons are a royal PITA around rezes here in the Southwest.

For cheap thrills, and may I recommend a good strong belt of booze for this, read up on the Mormon account of the Nephites versus those terrible Lamenites(of which I am a proud member). It's all WACKO.

Also, the Mormons think they are the lost tribes, among other things. But why not? We have plenty on this forum who think the same.

Ya oughta check out their(Mormons) take on "Urim and Thumin". Mountain Meadows Massacre is another nice touch.

Hmmm, now where did I put my "Temple Garment".

Bleah!!