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‘Sell all you have, and give to the poor'

ebedmelech

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Right now I feel like the rich man that went away sorrowful after hearing Jesus say that to him. (Matt 19:21,22)

Although I’m not rich by western standards I am so filthy rich compared with so many millions of people in the world that have nothing. I just feel so blessed to be born in a rich country but I feel that I have a greater responsibility before God in how I live my life and how I spend my money.

‘..For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required..’ Luke 12:48

The thought of continuing to live a ‘normal,’ happy, prosperous life, buying new things, going on holiday, etc etc makes me feel ill inside because I feel such a great burden and responsibility. I hate what I see in this world like materialism, corruption, greed, selfishness and people being exploited. The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer – I just hate it. Yet if I lived like those in a developing country I would be miserable because I would miss all the comforts that I currently have.

Jesus said sell all you have, give to the poor and come follow me. If Jesus was here in person I would drop everything without hesitation and follow Him. However I think (ye of little faith) that if I walked out the door right now with just the shirt on my back that I would just fall flat on my face and be among the thousands of other homeless poor people out there.

Please note I’m not just talking about one scripture here, the same messages of self denial, for example, ‘pick up your cross’ and ‘whoever shall lose his life shall find it’, and the rebukes to the rich are throughout the whole of the new testament. Most of Jesus teachings are not taught in churches because He gives a lot of warnings which are not popular feel good messages. So I’m not expecting many people to understand where I am coming from.

But please respond if you can relate to this?
The best advice I can give you will come from Proverbs. Red every proverb related to "poverty and riches" and you will have a fuller understanding.

When Jesus told the "rich man" sell all you have and give it to the poor, He struck the rich man at where his heart was...notice how the passage explained his motives...But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

The guys heart was in what he had and not in following Christ. Christ "hit him where he lived"...in his riches.

There's a balance to scripture. We must realize God moves in each individual differently.

Trust in how you think God is leading you with your possessions...you won't go wrong! As you learn to discern the voice of the Holy Spirit directing you, you'll hear Him more clearly each time.
 
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7he4uthor

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it is also reported jesus said



Google

Sell what you have and buy a sword

many poor ask resentfully why the church doesn't follow Jesus'
command and liquidate to feed/house the poor

yet the church is so rich no one could afford to buy all the artifacts, gold, and other junk collectors items [like alien technology]

the money-changers were an enemy
of Christ.

remember the reason for the assault at the temple ?
 
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A New Day

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it is also reported jesus said




Sell what you have and buy a sword

Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

what do you think about that verse 7he4uthor?
 
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Esdra

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Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

What do you think about that verse 7he4uthor?

I think Jesus is talking figuratively here.

Let's have a look at the whole passage and the context:

ESVUK: Luke 22 said:
Scripture Must Be Fulfilled in Jesus
35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no money bag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a money bag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfilment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

Context: These were Jesus' last words to the disciples, according to Luke, before he was captured, tortured and sentenced to death by the Romans and Jews and died.

The disciples also didn't get it and thought he would fight against the Romans before they capture him (Verse 38a), thus He says "It is enough". (Verse 38b)

Jesus was about to fulfil His mission, this is, to die for us on the cross. This also means that Jesus wouldn't be there to protect the Twelve, as he was an honoured rabbi. Thus I think this verse means that the disciples now have to look for themselves.
Probably they should use the sword for either self-defence, or against wild animals, or he meant the sword of the spirit which is the Holy Bible (Ephesians 6,17: "and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, ", ESVUK)

God bless you,
Esdra
 
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7he4uthor

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Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

what do you think about that verse 7he4uthor?


the same as THE PRINCE OF PEACE torching the whole planet in nuclear fire to judge the wicked ...

it is called reverse psychology or doublespeak in psyops
and duality by spiritualists
its a tool of mind control

Buy a sword means simply ''arm yourselves''
peter cut off an ear
the severed ear couldn't hear the word of god
so it was restored

see peter [called satan by christ] listened to jesus as gods word
but jesus had instructed the initiates to connect with god within
to listen to the internal voice, not external voices

jesus told judas to go to roman military police and betray their secret hangout. judas listened to the external voice as a command from god
later realizing it was his internal voice he needed to hear

the conflict of these 2 voices must have been unbearable
[damned if you do, and damned if you don't]

lets look at jesus REAL name to see whats up
YasHuWaH ... I have a thread on this name here.

Joshua was the military warlord
that moses refered to when he said

my god is a man of war


why then is it hard for Christians to picture jesus Christ
lopping off heads with a sword
the same guy who committed ''assault with a weapon''
[punishable by 20 yrs in prison today]
the same guy who will torch the whole planet

why cant they simply say

YES ,
jesus would kill

so why not order followers to arm themselves
founding fathers of America saw arming the public as a safeguard

why not Christ ?

I don't say that is the case [that would be telling]
but I do ask, what is it about institutional minds that rejects jesus as a violent man [he was in the bible]

passionate, violent, human ???

If ppl reject that Christ could be violent we must discard the bible as a source of who Christ was.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Right now I feel like the rich man that went away sorrowful after hearing Jesus say that to him. (Matt 19:21,22)

Although I’m not rich by western standards I am so filthy rich compared with so many millions of people in the world that have nothing. I just feel so blessed to be born in a rich country but I feel that I have a greater responsibility before God in how I live my life and how I spend my money.

‘..For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required..’ Luke 12:48

The thought of continuing to live a ‘normal,’ happy, prosperous life, buying new things, going on holiday, etc etc makes me feel ill inside because I feel such a great burden and responsibility. I hate what I see in this world like materialism, corruption, greed, selfishness and people being exploited. The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer – I just hate it. Yet if I lived like those in a developing country I would be miserable because I would miss all the comforts that I currently have.

Jesus said sell all you have, give to the poor and come follow me. If Jesus was here in person I would drop everything without hesitation and follow Him. However I think (ye of little faith) that if I walked out the door right now with just the shirt on my back that I would just fall flat on my face and be among the thousands of other homeless poor people out there.

Please note I’m not just talking about one scripture here, the same messages of self denial, for example, ‘pick up your cross’ and ‘whoever shall lose his life shall find it’, and the rebukes to the rich are throughout the whole of the new testament. Most of Jesus teachings are not taught in churches because He gives a lot of warnings which are not popular feel good messages. So I’m not expecting many people to understand where I am coming from.

But please respond if you can relate to this?

I can but from another angle, because when I was found of Christ, I had just recently come out of the millitary. Basically unemployed doing some side jobs and living with my mom (who couldnt wait to get rid of me).

From the material standpoint of things I had nothing, except the old car my parents pitched in together to get me so I could gain employment. And I didnt have that too long because I forgot to put it in park (when getting the mail) and it drove itself into my neighbors living room^_^

Besides that I only had my clothes, but as I shared before my pastor hated I wore jeans and tees to church, but thats all I had to my name. So I was more at the receiving end of the bad stick there (at church) which teaches, "wear your Sunday's best" but apparently my best wasnt good enough for them. So I had nothing to actually leave, or give up (materially) for Jesus Christ. I was poor (and to whom) the gospel is "preached to". The one whose clothing (in the assembly) wasnt meet to honor God.

So I had nothing, and you cant give up what you dont have.

Now, I could have given up my clothes, but they werent even acceptable to my pastor. And even if I did I would have been arrested for indecent exposure (soon after) lol

Jesus wore clothes (thank God!) because I was beginning to feel like the little drummer girl, know what I mean?

But I found the contentment (I didnt have) in Jesus Christ. From which time forward I just refused to get onto the Jones (materialistic) wheel.

Where if someone starts on it, one might called to go in reverse. I didnt begin there, I went forward (in Christ) as poor first (finding contentment there) in that state.

Even still to a certain extent I would drive myself insane for certain holidays (like christmas for example, or birthdays). Trying to keep up with serving other pleaures and desires. I shared on that before also that become bondage to me. The poor grow poorer even when giving to the rich, those who have need of nothing. Where was my head? Someone handing me a hint list, with playstation on it. I mean I got fed up with that and thought, "go out and buy your own playstation". Because I ended up having to drop hints to my own down just for my yearly pair of sneakers (which I wore all year long till next christmas). Then I was like, I really got to rethink this thing. Was even broker afterwards, throwing stuff on credit cards to buy other folks desires (verses needs). So it got out of hand and it was something I resolved (after much thought) to remove myself from.

So I get to places where I reconsider things, and add into my life (something) and remove from it what I feel a conviction about.

I think we all do that.
 
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Prayer Circle

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Quite the paradox, Matthew 19:21-22.
Especially as pertains to any pastor anywhere who has money.

Luke 16:13

No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.




The poor have nothing. So selling all of one's possessions and giving to them would simply alter the dynamic into one where the giver and receiver change places. Also, what of those poor who are Christian?
They need not sell all they own and yet is Matthew then living up to it's promise when they remain in their condition and thus need the charity it commands the blessed to impart at their personal expense?
 
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QueSi

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Prayer Circle said:
Quite the paradox, Matthew 19:21-22.
Especially as pertains to any pastor anywhere who has money.

Luke 16:13

No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

The poor have nothing. So selling all of one's possessions and giving to them would simply alter the dynamic into one where the giver and receiver change places. Also, what of those poor who are Christian?
They need not sell all they own and yet is Matthew then living up to it's promise when they remain in their condition and thus need the charity it commands the blessed to impart at their personal expense?

The poor have much more than nothing, for it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.
 
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LottyH

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Thanks for the replies :) Fireinfolding just reminded me of a time when my husband and I first got married and were really struggling financially. We were going to a 'faith' church and wearing shoes with holes, tshirts that had overstretched and looked dreadful, but that's all we had. But we would faithfully tithe to the church every week. What a contrast it was when the pastor had a rolex watch and took his family to Disneyland on holiday with the churches money telling us 'you can be rich too, just have faith'. Something is not quite right about that..
 
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Fireinfolding

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Thanks for the replies :) Fireinfolding just reminded me of a time when my husband and I first got married and were really struggling financially. We were going to a 'faith' church and wearing shoes with holes, tshirts that had overstretched and looked dreadful, but that's all we had. But we would faithfully tithe to the church every week. What a contrast it was when the pastor had a rolex watch and took his family to Disneyland on holiday with the churches money telling us 'you can be rich too, just have faith'. Something is not quite right about that..

Thats so funny you said that, because I always said, my pastors watch is worth more then my car.^_^ I wasnt the one adorning myself in costly apparel he was. Sorta made me feel like the dirt on his shoe because I didnt have 500 people lining my pockets (and wrists) like he did.
 
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LottyH

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Thats so funny you said that, because I always said, my pastors watch is worth more then my car.^_^ I wasnt the one adorning myself in costly apparel he was. Sorta made me feel like the dirt on his shoe because I didnt have 500 people lining my pockets (and wrists) like he did.

I can't judge individuals, its between them and God but I cant help thinking of the following scripture from Revelation 3:17

'Because you say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor and blind, and naked:

I counsel you to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich; and white raiment, that you may be clothed, and that the shame of your nakedness do not appear; and anoint your eyes with eyesalve, that you may see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore and repent.'
 
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Prayer Circle

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The poor have much more than nothing, for it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.
Ah, however in Heaven one's stomach does not cramp due to being empty of food. Their illness does not turn chronic for lack of health care. And they do not live in cardboard boxes because there are many mansions there that can not be found near the bush in a public park where they huddle for warmth beneath weeks worth of newspapers in the bitter winter.

Therefore it may be asked in light of the countless who live in that way, when it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter Heaven, is it a blessing when the relief of suffering impoverished and homeless comes after one has suffered to death?
 
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Fireinfolding

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I can't judge individuals, its between them and God but I cant help thinking of the following scripture from Revelation 3:17

'Because you say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor and blind, and naked:

I counsel you to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich; and white raiment, that you may be clothed, and that the shame of your nakedness do not appear; and anoint your eyes with eyesalve, that you may see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore and repent.'

Yeah and it always reminded me of this too in despising the poor coming into the assembly

James 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

James 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

James 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

So it wouldnt be about judging anyone, but becoming partial and becoming judges with evil thoughts on the very basis of such like examples.

Which to me, James had done well, because it speaks of judging the very cause of the poor. And so we find James doing so. Speaking up for those who are (pointing out their error) in doing this to the poor.
 
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Prayer Circle

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Thanks for the replies :) Fireinfolding just reminded me of a time when my husband and I first got married and were really struggling financially. We were going to a 'faith' church and wearing shoes with holes, tshirts that had overstretched and looked dreadful, but that's all we had. But we would faithfully tithe to the church every week. What a contrast it was when the pastor had a rolex watch and took his family to Disneyland on holiday with the churches money telling us 'you can be rich too, just have faith'. Something is not quite right about that..

Indeed.
There was a line in the Mickey Rourke movie, "Angel Heart", delivered by a pastor who was talking to his flock saying, people talk about me riding around in a Cadillac! If you love me I should be driving a Rolls Royce!

That pretty much sums up wealthy pastors who's flock are struggling to tithe them to riches.
Private jets, 13 mansions and a $100,000 mobile home just for the dogs: Televangelists 'defrauded tens of million of dollars from Christian network'

Realizing that's a Daily Mail article, it still is unpardonable the riches that are enjoyed by tax exempt pastors in America. Their Bible must simply be a paperweight for all that cash.

[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono][SIZE=+1]Taxpayers Pay for Televangelists' Lavish Lifestyles
Churches Damaged by Lack of Oversight and Disclosures
[/SIZE][/FONT]
(Charity Watch Article)

A Senate panel was supposedly investigating 6 televangelists but of course nothing ever came of it. One pastor, who's name escapes me, had 5 private jets registered to his church and was on the list for the panel's inquiry. When confronted about that by a reporter, he told her it was none of her business. Hey flock? Are you watching?
Link ~ Senator Grassley probes Televangelists Finances


Drats! His jet tally beat my personal aircraft count by 1! :doh:Yeahhhhh, and now that I'm not dreaming anymore... :D
 
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LottyH

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Yeah and it always reminded me of this too in despising the poor coming into the assembly

James 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

James 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

James 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

So it wouldnt be about judging anyone, but becoming partial and becoming judges with evil thoughts on the very basis of such like examples.

Which to me, James had done well, because it speaks of judging the very cause of the poor. And so we find James doing so. Speaking up for those who are (pointing out their error) in doing this to the poor.


So true. This whole thing about 'Sunday best' - where did that come from?! We put on our fancy clothes for the Sunday service, along with a happy, smiley plastic face yet what about the other 6 days? We are in God's presence first thing in the morning when we have sleep in our eyes and our hairs a mess. God sees us 24/7 yet he is not concerned about what we look like from the outside. Most of what we learn from society that is good and meaningful i.e looks, youth, prosperity, success, ambition, is opposite, upside down and back to front in God's view. It drives me nuts when I see churches trying to be like the world to attract young people. Then those young people get confused and depressed when God doesnt make things perfect in their lives from a worldly perspective.
 
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Fireinfolding

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So true. This whole thing about 'Sunday best' - where did that come from?! We put on our fancy clothes for the Sunday service, along with a happy, smiley plastic face yet what about the other 6 days? We are in God's presence first thing in the morning when we have sleep in our eyes and our hairs a mess. God sees us 24/7 yet he is not concerned about what we look like from the outside. Most of what we learn from society that is good and meaningful i.e looks, youth, prosperity, success, ambition, is opposite, upside down and back to front in God's view. It drives me nuts when I see churches trying to be like the world to attract young people. Then those young people get confused and depressed when God doesnt make things perfect in their lives from a worldly perspective.

You know...I have the slightest clue where "Sunday's best" come from, because obviously James had words for those who treated others in the vilest of clothes unjustly. Today it seems more like rend your garments not your heart.

I mean when you look at who God chose to be the forerunner to the Messiah himself, it was John the baptist. He wore camel's hair and a leather belt, and ate locusts and honey. Was camel hair Johns best? Or did the Lord even care?

Whereas in Luke 7:25

Jesus said, But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts.

Yeah, I sorta think the worldly ways crept in myself.
 
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Catherineanne

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So true. This whole thing about 'Sunday best' - where did that come from?!

The term 'Sunday best' comes from a time, not at all long ago, when clothes were very expensive indeed. The making was cheap, but the cost of the fabric out of reach of most people. It is a term used of and by poor people, not rich ones.

This is not as long ago as we might imagine. In A Christmas Carol Charles Dickens talks of people - Mrs Bob Crachit for one - wearing 'thrice turned' clothes, and her son having to borrow his father's one and only collar to wear on Christmas Day. In Little Dorrit the heroine wears the same dress for years on end; she makes shirts for her father but she only has one dress.

Turned clothes were those which had been undone at all the seams and made up again inside out, because the fabric inside was not as worn as that on the outside. Thrice turned is a garment to which this has been done three times; each time in an effort not to look quite so threadbare. Hats and seams would be brushed with shoe blacking, holes darned or patched over and over.

In such an age, people would make a real effort to have two sets of clothes, and would count themselves fortunate if they did. They would then wear one set during the week, and the best set on a Sunday, either to church or to sit at home. Most would try not to work if they could.

Mrs Bob Crachit does not have two sets of clothes, only one. When she wants to look presentable on Christmas Day she has to resort to sixpence worth of ribbons, and her daughter does the same.

So, Sunday best is your second best suit of clothes or dress when you have only two. At the point your working clothes actually fall to pieces and can be no longer turned, it becomes your working dress, and you then attempt to afford another set of clothes for Sunday best. Not everyone could manage it. Even those who could might well resort to pawning their Sunday clothes to get them through the week, redeeming them on Friday or Saturday, when they got paid, and perhaps pawning them again the next week.

In our time fabric has become very much cheaper, and we all have far more clothes than we could ever wear out. We no longer 'turn' clothes because the cost of doing so is more expensive than the cost of new clothes.

After clothes were worn out completely they would still not be wasted. In my great grandparents' time the fabric would be cut into strips and made into raggy rugs. They were coal miners. Every year there would be a new rug. At Christmas the best would go on the parents' bed, the one from the bed put onto the front room floor, the one from the front room moved to the kitchen, the one in the kitchen perhaps passed to a poorer family. A new raggy rug would then be started, and made by the kitchen fire by the wife, as she waited for her sons and husband to come home from work.

Very often wives with a husband and sons at work never went to bed; they slept in a rocking chair by the fire, because they were constantly waiting to meet those coming home from different shifts at the local pit. And in between they made raggy rugs from scraps of worn out clothing.

Sunday best is not an affectation of smart clothes to impress our neighbours. It is an attempt to have something decent to wear on a Sunday, at a time when it would not have been acceptable to wear working clothes to go to church. Working clothes would have been far too dirty, far too shabby, and the people would have had more pride than to wear them in the House of God.
 
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Fireinfolding

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James speaks on behalf of those in vile clothing (specifically so) coming into the assembly.

Now, I personally havent even seen this. However, folks (today) will get on ya for not coming into the assembly with what is not vile/ dirty (of which) James speaks up for.

Today, folks can sometimes treat you as the dirt on their holier then thou shoes for wearing what is clean (not vile) jeans and tees

If James speaks of not to discriminate even against vile/ dirty clothes (back then) why on earth would anyone take up one above that and believe its ok to be against what is clean (and not vile)?

Or just not up to par with their own stuff? (which you arent even slightly interested in wearing)

Im more comfortable in jeans and tees, if someone else is not, by all means wear something that makes you comfortable or which you feel either honors God or just impresses the heck out of Him.
 
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LottyH

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Indeed.
There was a line in the Mickey Rourke movie, "Angel Heart", delivered by a pastor who was talking to his flock saying, people talk about me riding around in a Cadillac! If you love me I should be driving a Rolls Royce!

That pretty much sums up wealthy pastors who's flock are struggling to tithe them to riches.
Private jets, 13 mansions and a $100,000 mobile home just for the dogs: Televangelists 'defrauded tens of million of dollars from Christian network'

Realizing that's a Daily Mail article, it still is unpardonable the riches that are enjoyed by tax exempt pastors in America. Their Bible must simply be a paperweight for all that cash.

[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono][SIZE=+1]Taxpayers Pay for Televangelists' Lavish Lifestyles[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]Churches Damaged by Lack of Oversight and Disclosures[/FONT][/SIZE] (Charity Watch Article)

A Senate panel was supposedly investigating 6 televangelists but of course nothing ever came of it. One pastor, who's name escapes me, had 5 private jets registered to his church and was on the list for the panel's inquiry. When confronted about that by a reporter, he told her it was none of her business. Hey flock? Are you watching?
Link ~ Senator Grassley probes Televangelists Finances


Drats! His jet tally beat my personal aircraft count by 1! :doh:Yeahhhhh, and now that I'm not dreaming anymore... :D

Yeah its pretty disgraceful. Judgement day is not going to be pretty. Yet is God going to judge me likewise? Even though my life is not to the above extreme I still have plenty when others have nothing.
 
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