Jewish end of days timeline

[Jon Anon]

America is Jacob.....the book of obadiah shows what canada does when the enemy comes and people run to canada.Canada hands the Americans over to the enemy...here is a portion for you:

Obadiah 1

King James Version (KJV)

1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.

2 Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen(canada): thou art greatly despised.

3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?(why because your brother protects you, america)

4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle(america, the eagle), and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord.

5 If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? if the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes?

6 How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!

7 All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee: there is none understanding in him.

8 Shall I not in that day, saith the Lord, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?

9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.

10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.

12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.

13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;

 

[Jon Anon]

read the blessings and curses of those who follow God. America received everyone of those blessings, and be sure now that they have turned from God the will receive every curse:

Blessings on Obedience

28 “Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth.(united states) 2 And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord your God:

3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country.

4 “Blessed shall be the fruit of your body, the produce of your ground and the increase of your herds, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.

5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.

6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.

7 “The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways.

8 “The Lord will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand, and He will bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

9 “The Lord will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in His ways. 10 Then all peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they shall be afraid of you. 11 And the Lord will grant you plenty of goods, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your ground, in the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. 12 The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. 14 So you shall not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
Curses on Disobedience

 

[Jon Anon]

Here are the curses that are coming since the nation has turned away from God:

15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

16 “Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country.

17 “Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.

18 “Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.

19 “Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.

20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.

30 “You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall lie with her; you shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it; you shall plant a vineyard, but shall not gather its grapes. 31 Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat of it; your donkey shall be violently taken away from before you, and shall not be restored to you; your sheep shall be given to your enemies, and you shall have no one to rescue them. 32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, and your eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all day long; and there shall be no strength in your hand. 33 A nation whom you have not known shall eat the fruit of your land and the produce of your labor, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually. 34 So you shall be driven mad because of the sight which your eyes see. 35 The Lord will strike you in the knees and on the legs with severe boils which cannot be healed, and from the sole of your foot to the top of your head.

36 “The Lord will bring you and the king whom you set over you to a nation which neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you shall serve other gods—wood and stone. 37 And you shall become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword among all nations where the Lord will drive you.

38 “You shall carry much seed out to the field but gather little in, for the locust shall consume it. 39 You shall plant vineyards and tend them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. 40 You shall have olive trees throughout all your territory, but you shall not anoint yourself with the oil; for your olives shall drop off. 41 You shall beget sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours; for they shall go into captivity. 42 Locusts shall consume all your trees and the produce of your land.

43 “The alien who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. 44 He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him; he shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

45 “Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 And they shall be upon you for a sign and a wonder, and on your descendants forever.

47 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and gladness of heart, for the abundance of everything, 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything; and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. 51 And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you.

52 “They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. 54 The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, 55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse[a] to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.

58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues—great and prolonged plagues—and serious and prolonged sicknesses. 60 Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 Also every sickness and every plague, which is not written in this Book of the Law, will the Lord bring upon you until you are destroyed. 62 You shall be left few in number, whereas you were as the stars of heaven in multitude, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.

64 “Then the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known—wood and stone. 65 And among those nations you shall find no rest, nor shall the sole of your foot have a resting place; but there the Lord will give you a trembling heart, failing eyes, and anguish of soul. 66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were morning!’ because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see.

68 “And the Lord will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.’ And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”

 

[Jon Anon]

A reverse is getting ready to happen as the story of moses and those in slavery in the bible:

America has turned their land of milk and honey into the land of Egypt full of idols and worshipers of other gods, so God will bring his people out of the land of Egypt by judgement and put them into slavery in other countries until all their idols are destroyed and they become a holy people again then God raises up the two witnesses a Moses and Aaron type that will lead the people and teach them righteousness. If you want to see what happens to them check out the curses of Deut 28 the curses of what happens when Gods people turn away, their land is invaded by the enemy, wives ravished, children slaughtered, go into slavery, cursed when they come and cursed when they go....

 

[Interplanner]

uhh, we're in the NT now. Everything you say sounds like all MO (ways of doing things) is OT.

 

[Jon Anon]

uhh, we're in the NT now. Everything you say sounds like all MO (ways of doing things) is OT.

Sorry you didn't get anything out of it...thanks for your posts

 

[dfw69]

Sorry you didn't get anything out of it...thanks for your posts

can you please start your own thread on these things....i know nothing about what you believe nor can i respond without first grasping what your trying to teach....which is a lot thrown at us at one time

i would like to keep this thread on the false messianic age and not derail

thanks

 

[Jon Anon]

can you please start your own thread on these things....i know nothing about what you believe nor can i respond without first grasping what your trying to teach....which is a lot thrown at us at one time

i would like to keep this thread on the false messianic age and not derail

thanks

sure sorry bout that

 

[dfw69]

Hi dfw, I don't have a problem with a false messianic age. But there is no indication of two false messiahs bringing that age about.
I think Jesus was speaking over the long haul, simon bar kochba, etc. and ultimately the Antichrist.

yes jesus words of false messiahs are for all generations...so any false messiah other than him throughout history are to be rejected....but jesus may in fact be refering to a false messianic age in the last days....in which a greater fulfillment of his prophecy of many messiahs and false prophets coming to decieve....its the falling away from the faith....its a time of persecution....a time where saint are beheaded and judge and condemned....a day of darkness...where no man can preach...there are many scriptures refering to a the falling away to occure in the last days....its the time when the temple is built...and israel enlarges its borders and her enemies are put down....and israel is experiencing a false peace and safety....and mystery babylon unites with 10 kingdoms and this era last a short space

In order to use that verse as the basis for there coming a end times messiah ben Joseph, there has to be confirmation in the other end times passages - which there are non for both a messiah ben Jospeh and messiah ben David.

thats a good point....there is not a whole lot on the falling away...but we can find scriptures on the subject throughout the new testament....dont take this 'sort of' preterist view of a historical fulfillment on these matters....for the events have a greater fulfillment in the final days and that is clear.....

There won't be any false resurrection because only God has that power

.

Only God has the power to resurrect the dead. There is no false resurrection spoken of in the bible.

of course....but this false ressurrection may be just people claiming to be one or the other old testament saints and prophets...i mean how can one determine what moses or elijah looked like?....its a deception...not an actual ressurrection....i believe jesus was refering to a false ressurrection when he says many false prophets shall come in these last days...to decieve that the messianic age has come

The man of sin will be "revealed". It will be their perceived King Messiah be David, the Antichrist prince who shall come. Which I agree will end the false messianic age.

Doug

the man of sin is the final antichrist who ends the false messianic reign several years after the messianic era last a short space

so you believe that a false messianic reign comes first before the man of sin comes?..... thats good....your on the right track.....but how will the messianic reign take place?....you have to look to what jewish talmudic rabbis teach and believe how their end of days take place...then you will see clearly....

 

[dfw69]

sure sorry bout that

no problem..

 

[Jon Anon]

There are 4 main players in the endtime scenerio. The 2 witnesses and the anti-christ and false prophet. There will be 2 kings and 2 preists. Anti-christ(king) false prophet(priest) and the two witnesses one a priest and one a king. Rev 11 shows two olive trees that are the 2 witnesses which coincides with zechariah 4:
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

The term Christ is an English derivative of the New Testament Greek word christos, which means "anointed." The equivalent Hebrew word in the Old Testament is mashiach. This term is transliterated in the King James New Testament as messias (John 1:41
; 4:25), a word that has come down into modern English, including many Bible versions, as "messiah." Both Christ and Messiah mean "anointed" or "anointed one."...........therefore this is where we will see messiah ben joseph and messiah ben david the 2 "anointed" ones which can be translated 2 messiahs come on the scene. Christians know them as the 2 witnesses, Jews know them as messiah ben david and messiah ben joseph. Those 2 will build the spiritual temple and the false king and false prophet will build the physical temple to get the jews to follow them

 

[dfw69]

There are 4 main players in the endtime scenerio. The 2 witnesses and the anti-christ and false prophet. There will be 2 kings and 2 preists. Anti-christ(king) false prophet(priest) and the two witnesses one a priest and one a king. Rev 11 shows two olive trees that are the 2 witnesses which coincides with zechariah 4:
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

The term Christ is an English derivative of the New Testament Greek word christos, which means "anointed." The equivalent Hebrew word in the Old Testament is mashiach. This term is transliterated in the King James New Testament as messias (John 1:41
; 4:25), a word that has come down into modern English, including many Bible versions, as "messiah." Both Christ and Messiah mean "anointed" or "anointed one."...........therefore this is where we will see messiah ben joseph and messiah ben david the 2 "anointed" ones which can be translated 2 messiahs come on the scene. Christians know them as the 2 witnesses, Jews know them as messiah ben david and messiah ben joseph. Those 2 will build the spiritual temple and the false king and false prophet will build the physical temple to get the jews to follow them

the two witnesses i belive are enoch and elijah ...can they be priest and king?

enoch and elijah are two witneses of christ whose work is to convince the jews that their soon coming king messiah comes as john did before... to announce the suffering messiah ...christ was messiah ben joseph and will be messiah ben david...he fulfilled the suffereing mesiiah prophecy...he will fulfill the messianic prophecy...scripture teaches him to be both...king and priest

 

[Jon Anon]

the two witnesses i belive are enoch and elijah ...can they be priest and king?

enoch and elijah are two witneses of christ whose work is to convince the jews that their soon coming king messiah comes as john did before... to announce the suffering messiah ...christ was messiah ben joseph and will be messiah ben david...he fulfilled the suffereing mesiiah prophecy...he will fulfill the messianic prophecy...scripture teaches him to be both...king and priest

All the decendants of Adam and Eve show a part of the 2 endtimes witnesses Adam/Eve. Enoch and Elijah being translated to heaven is Adam and Eve being translated after laying in the street for 3 and half days while everyone watches in the end. Moses(king) and Aaaron(preist) show the endtime witnesses uniting the people bringing both houses back together. Joshua(preist) and Zerubbabel(king) show the 2 witnesses building the spiritual temple. Jesus made salvation possible the 2 witnesses unite the two houses of israel

 

[Jon Anon]

the two witnesses i belive are enoch and elijah ...can they be priest and king?

enoch and elijah are two witneses of christ whose work is to convince the jews that their soon coming king messiah comes as john did before... to announce the suffering messiah ...christ was messiah ben joseph and will be messiah ben david...he fulfilled the suffereing mesiiah prophecy...he will fulfill the messianic prophecy...scripture teaches him to be both...king and priest

why do you think Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses? keep this in mind:
John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[dfw69]

why do you think Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses? keep this in mind:
John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

People use this scripture to prove that no one has been taken to heaven ... It it's clear few has... Enoch Elijah John Paul ...I believe the Old Testament saint were also taken when Jesus took captivity captive .., there was a resurrection in Jesus day

The point of this scripture is that only Christ came from the father... And only Christ went up to the father by his own power...all others had to be taken up by gods power... Not Christ who is god

 

[Douggg]

Do you not know Elijah will come back?

Maybe as one of the two witnesses. But not reincarnated.

Jesus came forth from the Father, Eve came forth from Adam, the lost 10 tribes came forth from the original. The new testament came forth from the old testament. The pattern in the bible is to have 1 then divide it and make 2 and then bring it back together as 1. Ezekiel 37 shows us Judah and Israel will come back together after the lost 10 tribes are gathered and they become 1 with Judah again as in the times of David. If Jesus and the Father are 1 and the nation of Israel(Gods firstborn) is going to become 1 again.......do you think God will just skip over his firstborn Adam and Eve(the mother and father of creation) and disregaurd the promise He made them in the garden?:

Jesus coming forth from the Father goes back to when God decided to create. Before time, there was only God, no void because that would mean that God has limits. Within Himself, since He was all there was, God designated space for Creation which has physical limits, since creation itself is not God. Coming forth from Himself, God entered His creation, that point being the throne of God in Heaven, so that his creation might perceive him, as the Lord who Jesus is..... this was eons before entering this world to be born of Mary. God did not divide Himself. He presents Himself in form that his creation can perceive Him.

That's what Jesus meant by saying he was always with the Father. It goes back to before anything existed, other than God.

Outside the boundaries of creation, only God exists, therefore, no-one can know God on that level, except the Son who is God Himself in perceptible form.

Doug

 

[dfw69]

All the decendants of Adam and Eve show a part of the 2 endtimes witnesses Adam/Eve. Enoch and Elijah being translated to heaven is Adam and Eve being translated after laying in the street for 3 and half days while everyone watches in the end. Moses(king) and Aaaron(preist) show the endtime witnesses uniting the people bringing both houses back together. Joshua(preist) and Zerubbabel(king) show the 2 witnesses building the spiritual temple. Jesus made salvation possible the 2 witnesses unite the two houses of israel

I disagree.... Even if what you say is true ... Then the two witness may typify a king and priest of the future..though I don't see how zerubbabel can refer to Christ ... Because his name refers to one sown from Babylon ... Christ will not come from Babylon .... Zerubbabel means seed of Babylon

Christ is king forever .. He is Adam ... Or new Adam

His priesthood is a new order ...not sure what all that is .... But believers Jew and gentile in him are called priest and kings with Christ

Eve is symbolic of future queen ... Christ is king... His bride is his queen...and his bride are those citizens that will live with him in new Jerusalem ....which comes after Christ reigns 1000 years....new Jerusalem is Adam (Christ) and eve (believers) as king and queen...

 

[Interplanner]

Bon Jon, the spiritual temple is already here.

 

[dfw69]

I read that Jews believe the branch to come is zerubbabel ... Implying that a man born in Babylon will become king messiah and reign... That zerubbabel is the branch spoken of in Jeremiah

 

[Interplanner]

AS Rom 16 says, GOd has now declared that OT PRophecy is to illuminate the gospel of Christ so that the nations will believe and obey. It is not clear about any of this other stuff, which is why it is never spoken of in ordinary language in the NT, nor does it matter there.