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Returning to the Orthodox faith?

Lukaris

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In your post you claim that Orthodoxy is not the True faith.
I beg to differ, ( I am Orthodox ) in Orthodoxy you have exactly what the Apostles gave us in our faith. As you probably know and stated that it is a Spiritual and Mystical faith. This is in direct accordance to our Apostolic faith.
Tradition of worship , Liturgy and Evangelizing has remained the same. Our fellow Brothers and Sisters in Catholicism unfortunately have Changed their ways. If they had not, the Protestant Revolution would have not taken place.
Please understand that I did not post to criticize , I would never disrespect a Brother or Sister in Christ. If I am being too conceded in my faith it is because of my Love for Prayer and OUR Lord and Savior ...
God Bless all, and Pray for a United Christian Faith Under the Bishop of all Bishops, King of all Kings, Jesus Christ.


Not meaning to break the topic of the thread. Just wanted to extend a welcome to TAW.:wave:
 
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ArmyMatt

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In your post you claim that Orthodoxy is not the True faith.
I beg to differ, ( I am Orthodox ) in Orthodoxy you have exactly what the Apostles gave us in our faith. As you probably know and stated that it is a Spiritual and Mystical faith. This is in direct accordance to our Apostolic faith.
Tradition of worship , Liturgy and Evangelizing has remained the same. Our fellow Brothers and Sisters in Catholicism unfortunately have Changed their ways. If they had not, the Protestant Revolution would have not taken place.
Please understand that I did not post to criticize , I would never disrespect a Brother or Sister in Christ. If I am being too conceded in my faith it is because of my Love for Prayer and OUR Lord and Savior ...
God Bless all, and Pray for a United Christian Faith Under the Bishop of all Bishops, King of all Kings, Jesus Christ.

I also say welcome to TAW!
 
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Yoder777

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In your post you claim that Orthodoxy is not the True faith.
I beg to differ, ( I am Orthodox ) in Orthodoxy you have exactly what the Apostles gave us in our faith. As you probably know and stated that it is a Spiritual and Mystical faith. This is in direct accordance to our Apostolic faith.
Tradition of worship , Liturgy and Evangelizing has remained the same. Our fellow Brothers and Sisters in Catholicism unfortunately have Changed their ways. If they had not, the Protestant Revolution would have not taken place.
Please understand that I did not post to criticize , I would never disrespect a Brother or Sister in Christ. If I am being too conceded in my faith it is because of my Love for Prayer and OUR Lord and Savior ...
God Bless all, and Pray for a United Christian Faith Under the Bishop of all Bishops, King of all Kings, Jesus Christ.

I never claimed that Eastern Orthodoxy is not the true faith. I said that it's an unprovable assumption that Eastern Orthodoxy is exclusively the true faith. I perceive no disrespect in what you said and thank you for being fair and balanced. I would rather focus on what I like about Orthodoxy, not how every other faith is false.
 
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Yoder777

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Gxg (G²);62828099 said:
Eastern Catholic was something that came to mind as something to consider whenever you and your wife discuss the issue.

That's not a bad idea, aside from the fact that my wife is pretty much a committed Protestant. For that reason, I've thought about a liturgical and sacramental church like the Anglicans as a possible compromise.
 
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Yoder777

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After giving it much thought and consideration, I am going to hold off on making a full re-commitment to Eastern Orthodoxy. I feel no more loyalty to Orthodoxy than I do to the Catholic faith in which I was raised, even though I have a deep appreciation for Orthodox tradition. At the same time, I still intend on attending fellowship activities like the men's breakfast at the local Orthodox church, and I am happy that they still welcome me as a friend. I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I do know for a fact that I am most attracted to churches that are liturgical and sacramental, like Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Between the two, I think Catholicism has more tolerance for differences of opinion.
 
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Yoder777

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I sincerely wish you all the best and hope you find what you're looking for.

What matters most to me is the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I attended a non-sacramental Protestant church for a
year. Though the service was nice enough and the people were nice too, I missed the Eucharist long before I realized it.
 
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Yoder777

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Please keep in mind that in all my questions about various topics related to Orthodox Christianity, I have had no desire to offend whatsoever. If you wanted me to list the things that I like about Roman Catholicism, I could do so, but I could make a list about equally as long about Orthodoxy.

I think the reforms made since Vatican II, in opening the faith to the modern world while preserving the essentials of ancient faith, have been generally good. While some have criticized the novus ordo mass, I think there are some really good contemporary Catholic liturgical songs. I also think that having a modernized liturgy is perhaps a more effective way of reaching the modern world, especially the unchurched. I see no reason why the Orthodox liturgy can't preserve its essential form while also adapting to the musical tradition of whatever culture in which it is practiced, including American culture. For example, why not have a Gospel music version of the divine liturgy? If not, why not?

There are so many Catholic saints and thinkers that, even as a devoutly Orthodox Christian, I admired, especially Francis of Assisi, Teilhard de Chardin, John Paul II, John XXIII and Padre Pio. I am also deeply moved by Catholic forms of meditation and prayer such as the rosary, the chaplet of divine mercy, and the Ignatian exercises. I also find Catholic religious art to better convey emotion and realism than Orthodox iconography.

The main problem I've had with the Catholic Church is that I don't believe in the authority of the papacy, but there are many Catholics today who disagree with the Vatican on important matters. Hans Kung, a Catholic priest who participated in Vatican II, says clearly that papal supremacy as exercised by the Vatican was not of the ancient faith of the apostles.

Basically, what happened to me is that my mother's side of the family is Catholic while my father's side is Orthodox. I was raised Catholic, but I converted to Orthodoxy in high school. I was one of those people who converted to Orthodoxy out of resentment against his former faith, as this was the height of the priest scandal. In my college years, I was a full blown Orthodox zealot, demanding that others recognize the exclusive truth of the Orthodox faith while failing to live up to the teachings of the fathers in my personal life. When I finished college, I drifted away from Orthodoxy due to some bad experiences I had with priests who were mentally unstable and who were overly zealous about their Orthodoxy to compensate for their own insecurities. I then attended church services at the Salvation Army for over a year, because I was impressed by their charitable work, but I made clear to the pastor from the beginning that I was making no commitment to the Salvation Army and that I recently had some bad experiences with clergymen, which he fully understood. I eventually left the Salvation Army because I honestly missed the Eucharist, which they do not practice. I then found this book at the library, which is a book about Catholic traditions from a Protestant perspective, and it helped to attract me to the Catholic faith in which I was raised:

http://www.amazon.com/Almost-Cathol...id=1365992778&sr=1-1&keywords=almost+catholic

I've been attending Catholic mass off and on for the past six months. I recently had my two year old daughter baptized in the Catholic Church. About a month or two ago, however, the deacon from the Orthodox church to which I once belonged and even altar served called me up and invited me to a spiritual breakfast. This gave me the incentive to give Eastern Orthodoxy a second chance, but I might honestly feel more comfortable in the Catholic faith, even though I have a profound appreciation for Orthodoxy.
 
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MariaRegina

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There are so many Catholic saints and thinkers that, even as a devoutly Orthodox Christian, I admired, especially Francis of Assisi, Teilhard de Chardin, John Paul II, John XXIII and Padre Pio. I am also deeply moved by Catholic forms of meditation and prayer such as the rosary, the chaplet of divine mercy, and the Ignatian exercises. I also find Catholic religious art to better convey emotion and realism than Orthodox iconography.

Teilhard de Chardin, S.J. is now a Catholic Saint? That is news. His books were on the Index. Did not he perpetuate an archeological fraud to provide a Darwinian link to our human ancestors?

Did not John Paul II kiss the Quran?

Catholic religious art? The Madonna of the Street is not appropriate. Using models from the street to represent the Theotokos is not very respectful.

The main problem I've had with the Catholic Church is that I don't believe in the authority of the papacy, but there are many Catholics today who disagree with the Vatican on important matters. Hans Kung, a Catholic priest who participated in Vatican II, says clearly that papal supremacy as exercised by the Vatican was not of the ancient faith of the apostles.

If a person is having problems with Papal Infallibility and Papal Supremacy, then he is not really a true Roman Catholic. I honestly admitted my struggles with Papal powers and came to the realization that I could not receive communion in Roman or Melkite Catholic Churches. At that point, many years ago, I asked my spiritual father in the OCA to receive me as a catechumen, which he willingly did. Within six months, I was received by Chrismation.

...
I've been attending Catholic mass off and on for the past six months. I recently had my two year old daughter baptized in the Catholic Church. About a month or two ago, however, the deacon from the Orthodox church to which I once belonged and even altar served called me up and invited me to a spiritual breakfast. This gave me the incentive to give Eastern Orthodoxy a second chance, but I might honestly feel more comfortable in the Catholic faith, even though I have a profound appreciation for Orthodoxy.

Again, evaluate your beliefs in the papal powers. If you cannot believe in the authority of the pope, then you cannot in all truth call yourself a Roman Catholic.

Know that I was once in your shoes, and I will pray for you.
 
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Yoder777

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Teilhard de Chardin, S.J. is now a Catholic Saint? That is news. His books were on the Index. Did not he perpetuate an archeological fraud to provide a Darwinian link to our human ancestors?

de Chardin was not a saint but he was a great thinker, perhaps the first Christian theologian to make such a serious attempt to synthesize traditional Christian teachings with the findings of modern science. I recommend reading his book Christianity and Evolution. About Peking Man being a hoax, you might have that confused with Piltdown Man.

H. erectus as a human ancestor is well attested by the fossil evidence, not just Peking Man:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Man

Since Vatican II, de Chardin's books have been widely praised, and there are buildings named after him at Catholic colleges.

Did not John Paul II kiss the Quran?

The Bible actually has more violent passages than the Koran, including Yahweh ordering the Hebrews to massacre entire Gentile villages, including infant children.

Catholic religious art? The Madonna of the Street is not appropriate. Using models from the street to represent the Theotokos is not very respectful.

I think you are ignoring the vast majority of Catholic religious art and instead judging one piece that you don't like. Furthermore, wasn't the Virgin Mary a poor woman anyway? Why not depict her as such? That's being true to life, not disrespectful.

If a person is having problems with Papal Infallibility and Papal Supremacy, then he is not really a true Roman Catholic.

If I were catholic, it would be with a small 'c'. I think a person can appreciate and practice the bulk of Catholic tradition while more or less tolerating or ignoring the inflated claims of the Vatican. It's what American Catholics tend to do anyway.

I choose to make a distinction between the institution, which is made up of men and dates more or less to Constantine's Christianization of the Roman Empire, and the essence of the Catholic faith, which goes back for 2000 years. When I attend Catholic mass, it is not to worship the Vatican but to be in communion with over a billion Catholics today and with Catholics throughout history in celebration of the Eucharist.
 
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MariaRegina

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de Chardin was not a saint but he was a great thinker, perhaps the first Christian theologian to make such a serious attempt to synthesize traditional Christian teachings with the findings of modern science. I recommend reading his book Christianity and Evolution. About Peking Man being a hoax, you might have that confused with Piltdown Man.

H. erectus as a human ancestor is well attested by the fossil evidence, not just Peking Man:
Peking Man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since Vatican II, de Chardin's books have been widely praised, and there are buildings named after him at Catholic colleges.



The Bible actually has more violent passages than the Koran, including Yahweh ordering the Hebrews to massacre entire Gentile villages, including infant children.



I think you are ignoring the vast majority of Catholic religious art and instead judging one piece that you don't like. Furthermore, wasn't the Virgin Mary a poor woman anyway? Why not depict her as such? That's being true to life, not disrespectful.



If I were catholic, it would be with a small 'c'. I think a person can appreciate and practice the bulk of Catholic tradition while more or less tolerating or ignoring the inflated claims of the Vatican. It's what American Catholics tend to do anyway.

I choose to make a distinction between the institution, which is made up of men and dates more or less to Constantine's Christianization of the Roman Empire, and the essence of the Catholic faith, which goes back for 2000 years. When I attend Catholic mass, it is not to worship the Vatican but to be in communion with over a billion Catholics today and with Catholics throughout history in celebration of the Eucharist.

Have you ever heard of the term "cafeteria Catholic"?

I became an Orthodox Christian because I realized that if I were to remain a Catholic but chose to pick and choose not to believe in the Papacy, then I would have become a cafeteria catholic or nominal catholic. One can pick and choose until the day comes when one is no longer anything.
 
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ArmyMatt

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The Bible actually has more violent passages than the Koran, including Yahweh ordering the Hebrews to massacre entire Gentile villages, including infant children.

that doesn't matter, the Koran is demonic, plain and simple.

If I were catholic, it would be with a small 'c'. I think a person can appreciate and practice the bulk of Catholic tradition while more or less tolerating or ignoring the inflated claims of the Vatican. It's what American Catholics tend to do anyway.

yeah, and that is bad. that's just the protestant mentaility only thinking that the RC Church is nicer than the others. it has nothing to do with truth, and the person is still the center of worship, since it is what the individual likes most.
 
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Yoder777

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Have you ever heard of the term "cafeteria Catholic"?

I became an Orthodox Christian because I realized that if I were to remain a Catholic but chose to pick and choose not to believe in the Papacy, then I would have become a cafeteria catholic or nominal catholic. One can pick and choose until the day comes when one is no longer anything.

I am familiar with the term. I am also familiar with the right to conscience in religious matters defended by Vatican II. For what it's worth, these are my results on the quiz What Kind of Catholic Are You?:

You Are a Divine Office (Moderately Traditional) Catholic

The Second Vatican Council was much needed, as far as you're concerned, but you see no reason to push the church further in the direction of change, as many progressives urge. You like the dynamic combination of the traditional approach toward doctrine with the opening of the church to the world that Pope John Paul II (your favorite pope) represented. As far as liturgy is concerned, a reverent Mass in the vernacular is your favorite, as is a vernacular hymn with a feeling for the transcendent such as "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence." When Nicole Kidman returned to her childhood Catholicism and regular Mass attendance, you were thrilled.
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/Quiz/What-Kind-of-Catholic-Are-You.aspx
 
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Yoder777

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that doesn't matter, the Koran is demonic, plain and simple.

Is massacring entire Gentile villages, including infant children, demonic?

yeah, and that is bad. that's just the protestant mentaility only thinking that the RC Church is nicer than the others. it has nothing to do with truth, and the person is still the center of worship, since it is what the individual likes most.

What you regard as truth is ultimately a matter of what your individual conscience, reason, intuition, and leadings of the Spirit tell you is the truth.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Is massacring entire Gentile villages, including infant children, demonic?

if it was commanded by God, no.

What you regard as truth is ultimately a matter of what your individual conscience, reason, intuition, and leadings of the Spirit tell you is the truth.

no that makes Truth relative, which it is not, being Truth. Truth is a Person.
 
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Yoder777

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if it was commanded by God, no.

What is demonic in the Koran then?

no that makes Truth relative, which it is not, being Truth. Truth is a Person.

I agree that there is one Truth and that Truth is a person. Human beings, however, being of limited perspective, interpret the truth in different ways. For what reasons do you personally choose to be Eastern Orthodox rather than Protestant or Roman Catholic?
 
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Lukaris

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The thing is to consider that you admit to once being overzealous when Orthodox (it happens no big deal) but have you completely come to terms with that matter? I have had my share of internal faith upheavals but when the dust settles, I remain Orthodox. There can be much freedom in regards to other Christians & I have found it possible to discern & cherry pick wonderful expressions of faith from them (there are major differences between the Popes of Rome, Bill Graham etc. (good guys) & Westboro Baptist & certain carnal extremists within the ECUSA http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...resurrection-of-jesus-the-gospel-and-the-poo/ for sure). I just remember it all culminates at the Eucharist & yet I can discern & hope for the grace that is found among other Christians.
 
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