Which Branch of Christianity is Closest to Original Early Church?

[Root of Jesse]

Except that denominationalism is not scriptural.

 

[tzadik]

Well, what about "lifestyle," specifically worship style? How did the early Christians worship when they gathered? What did they do? Was there ceremony, some order to things? Were there special observances, sacraments, or ordinances?

They followed God's Appointed times. (God's Feast Days) - Leviticus 23.
They worshiped with songs, timbrel, cymbals, trumpets, tambourines, harps and lyres. 1 Chronicles 13:8, 1 Chronicles 16:42, etc.

 

[Albion]

They followed God's Appointed times. (God's Feast Days) - Leviticus 23.
They worshiped with songs, timbrel, cymbals, trumpets, tambourines, harps and lyres. 1 Chronicles 13:8, 1 Chronicles 16:42, etc.

Alas, part of that is what the OT Hebrews did, not the members of the new church. On the other hand, this is what we need to look at more carefully, so do carry on.

I'll offer this. They obviously baptised new members. They observed the Holy Meal. About this there should be no doubt.

 

[tzadik]

Alas, part of that is what the OT Hebrews did, not the members of the new church.

Can you show me ANYWHERE where we see any believers in the "NT" NOT following His Instructions and observing His Holy Days?

What we do see...Shavuot
Acts 2:1
"When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place."

Acts 20:16
"For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be in Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost."

1 Corinthians 16:8
"But I will remain in Ephesus until Pentecost;"

Feast of Unleavened bread and Pesach
1 Corinthians 5:7-8
"Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

Not to mention Colosians 2:16-17
"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."
Where Paul tells us that God's Appointed Feasts and Holy days are shadows of good things STILL to come. (Just like they were a shadow/rehearsal back in Leviticus 23)

 

[tzadik]

I'll offer this. They obviously baptised new members. They observed the Holy Meal. About this there should be no doubt.

Pesach is still an annual meal, just like it was a meal back in Exodus.
There is nowhere in Scriptures where a "communion" is instructed as something you do once a week, once a month, twice a year or any other amounts of time other than "in the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the LORD'S Passover."

If anything, Yeshua attached more meaning to Pesach.

 

[God's Fighter]

Except that denominationalism is not scriptural.

Pretty much.

My point Albion, is that you cannot replicate the conditions of the 1st century church. I find the question, "which denomination is the closest to the 1st century church?" to be an ignorant one. For the most part it is typically a loaded question with the aim of validating the fierce denominationalists. It leads to the "one true church of God" stuff. I also stick with my original answer, the churches suffering under state sponsored persecution in various countries are probably the ones closest. But you don't have to agree with me on that. The idea of litmus test beyond their salvation is likely going to lead us nowhere.

As far as the congregational and baptist churches, I concur that would be one aspect of the 1st century church with the exception that the Apostles were chosen by Christ and not elected. But that is something else we can't replicate in the same way.

 

[barryatlake]

What denomination is closest to the early Christians?

The same Church that Jesus founded on His apostles. Just look for the only Church today that was founded on Apostolic Traditional Teaching[ directly from Jesus ] and that same Church later compiled the Holy Bible with the only "One True Interpretation". It is the only Church that follows both Apostolic Traditional Teaching along with the Holy Bible with the "One True Interpretation"as intended. True Christianity is the only world religion that differs from the other major World Religions in that it is not a 'Holy Book Alone" Religion i.e. Judaism and Islamic.All Protestant churches are of a man-made 'Holy Book Alone' Religion.Example- Luke 10:16; Matt.28:18-20; Matt.16:16-18.

 

[ananda]

Albion, Jesus came only to the house of israel....His own words ... in answer to the question, Which denomination is closer to the ORiGiNAL....has to be Netzarim (my view) as like Jesus, they are (haveing accepted Jesus as Messiah) Torahobservant, 7th day observant, Eat only Kosher Food, and observe the Feasts and Commandments of God, AS Did Jesus and the diciples...wasnt until much later that 'christianity' changed things, days of worship, Gods commandments, His 7th day sabbath etc. Thats why christians amaze me when they say WWJD...We walk in His footsteps, becuase that being so, you all would be mirroring Judaism (with excemption to all the man made laws that Jesus ... spoke out against).

Thanks for the witness, Zetlander!

Jesting aside, I agree with what you wrote above.

 

[lismore]

Except that denominationalism is not scriptural.

Congregational churches are not denominations, they're congregational!

 

[Albion]

Can you show me ANYWHERE where we see any believers in the "NT" NOT following His Instructions and observing His Holy Days?

'
It's not a serious question to challenge anyone to prove a negative, I'm sure you know.

Acts 2:1
"When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place."

Acts 20:16
"For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be in Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost."

1 Corinthians 16:8
"But I will remain in Ephesus until Pentecost;"

Feast of Unleavened bread and Pesach
1 Corinthians 5:7-8
"Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

Not to mention Colosians 2:16-17
"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

Well, Pentecost is observed by Christians, and Passover has been converted into the Lord's Supper. I don't know where that leaves us as concerns all the other feast days of the Hebrews.

 

[Albion]

Congregational churches are not denominations, they're congregational!

Yes, I noticed the difference between your wording and mine after I'd posted it.

I was thinking of the denomination that until recently was named The Congregational Church, a split-off from the Anglican church. It, of course, elected its clergy (and still does) by congregational vote.

 

[jannikitty]

According to the bible the earliest followers of Jesus were called Followers of the Way. They weren't what you could really call a denomination in the way we would say today..but a small group made up usually of Jewish believers in the Way and spread out in various locations. The largest group were led by James in Jerusalem. In a short time Gentiles (that is, non-Jewish people) also followed the Way of Jesus. The name "Christian" for followers of Jesus was first used in Antioch.

Many consider the Roman Catholic church as the first denomination but then the church existed for hundreds of years before it was called Roman Catholic. Denominations usually mean more than one and the church began as one church in many locations. Thus, Christians simply, said, "The Church at Antioch, or the Church at Jerusalem, or the Church at Ephesus, or the Church at Corinth, etc. These were not separate denominations but different locations for various Christian groups..A reading of the Acts of the Apostles and the letters of Paul will throw much light on this.

Also this information may be helpful:

"For the first thousand years of Christianity there was no "Roman Catholicism" as we know it today, simply because there was no Eastern Orthodoxy or Protestantism to distinguish it. There was only the "one, holy, catholic church" affirmed by the early creeds, which was the body of Christian believers all over the world, united by common traditions, beliefs, church structure and worship (catholic simply means "universal")." Taken from --- Roman Catholicism - ReligionFacts

 

[tzadik]

'
It's not a serious question to challenge anyone to prove a negative, I'm sure you know.

You said the "NT believers" do not observe what the "OT believers" observed.
So I would like you to prove that by showing me where they stopped, since you are claiming they did.
Yet I've shown you where they did keep the feasts. So I'm still waiting for your verse (s)

Well, Pentecost is observed by Christians, and Passover has been converted into the Lord's Supper.

Passover has been converted into the "Lord's Supper" by men.
This is not a Scriptural concept.

 

[Albion]

You said the "NT believers" do not observe what the "OT believers" observed.
So I would like you to prove that by showing me where they stopped, since you are claiming they did.
Yet I've shown you where they did keep the feasts. So I'm still waiting for your verse (s)

You showed me evidence that they kept some, which I agreed with. But we also know that they were not just Jewish + Messiah, as some want to believe. Christ ordained new observances and beliefs beyond that, which we have to account for. In addition, we have to bear in mind that all the new Christians rapidly moved away from the Synagogue and the old ways, so one problem in this discussion is always going to be "how early?" when we are speaking of the "early Christians."

Passover has been converted into the "Lord's Supper" by men.
This is not a Scriptural concept.

I disagree. And so did the early Christians, so that should settle it. In any case, it really doesn't matter here if it is Scriptural or not; the question asks what the early Christians did, not whether it was right to have done it.

Perhaps we need to now consider other areas of similarity. Particular beliefs, for example.

 

[tzadik]

You showed me evidence that they kept some, which I agreed with. But we also know that they were not just Jewish + Messiah, as some want to believe. Christ ordained new observances and beliefs beyond that, which we have to account for. In addition, we have to bear in mind that all the new Christians rapidly moved away from the Synagogue and the old ways, so one problem in this discussion is always going to be "how early?" when we are speaking of the "early Christians."

Don't know about you, but I prefer to stick to the Word of God, rather than "early Christians" no matter if they were 1 day after the "NT". What new observance did Christ ordain?

And as far as "new Christians" rapidly moving away from God's ways in the "OT", i see absolutely no mention or indication or example of that ANYwhere in the "NT". Do you?

I disagree. And so did the early Christians, so that should settle it.

Who do you mean by "early Christians"? If it's anyone outside of the Scriptures, that doesn't settle it at all. All that does is tell me that you would much rather follow men's traditions than the commandments of God.

In any case, it really doesn't matter here if it is Scriptural or not; the question asks what the early Christians did, not whether it was right to have done it.

Again, we must be going about this in different ways. I seem to want Biblical proof for everything that I do and believe in, and you seem to want Extra-Biblical proof and examples.

 

[Albion]

Don't know about you, but I prefer to stick to the Word of God, rather than "early Christians" no matter if they were 1 day after the "NT". What new observance did Christ ordain?

I've already referred to Baptism in the name of the Triune God and the Lord's Supper.

And as far as "new Christians" rapidly moving away from God's ways in the "OT", i see absolutely no mention or indication or example of that ANYwhere in the "NT". Do you?

Oh yes. Most of the NT deals with it.

Who do you mean by "early Christians"?

As I said, "early" has not been defined, but I think anytime during the first generation of Christians would be a reasonable choice.

 

[tzadik]

I've already referred to Baptism in the name of the Triune God and the Lord's Supper.

There is no such thing as the "Lord's Supper" in the Scriptures. What Yeshua was celebrating was Pesach, as the Gospels clearly show us. IT was during the Passover with the 4 cups of wine that Yeshua brought an even fuller meaning and remembrance value to the Pesach for every time they observed it (annually) from that day on.

Oh yes. Most of the NT deals with it.

Yet you cannot show me ONE verse that shows me ANYONE moving away from God's commandments and Holy Appointed Feasts.

As I said, "early" has not been defined, but I think anytime during the first generation of Christians would be a reasonable choice.

In the Bible or outside?

 

[ViaCrucis]

There is no such thing as the "Lord's Supper" in the Scriptures.

Except, you know, when St. Paul refers to it in 1 Corinthians 10 and 11. He's not talking about the Jewish Passover, he's talking about the Lord's Table, the Eucharist.

You can deny it if you like, but it's there in black and white for anyone to read.

Or perhaps you don't accept the Pauline letters as Scripture, I don't know. But the rest of us, we do, and we don't dismiss them just because they're inconvenient for our personal pet doctrines.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Albion]

Except, you know, when St. Paul refers to it in 1 Corinthians 10 and 11. He's not talking about the Jewish Passover, he's talking about the Lord's Table, the Eucharist.

You can deny it if you like, but it's there in black and white for anyone to read.

Quite so. There is no way to read that passage and conclude that Jesus and the Apostles merely observed another Passover meal.

 

[barryatlake]

Albion,once we become members of Christ’s family, he does not let us go hungry, but feeds us with his own body and blood through the Eucharist. In the Old Testament, as they prepared for their journey in the wilderness, God commanded his people to sacrifice a lamb and sprinkle its blood on their doorposts, so the Angel of Death would pass by their homes. Then they ate the lamb to seal their covenant with God.
This lamb prefigured Jesus. He is the real "Lamb of God," who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29). Through Jesus we enter into a New Covenant with God (Luke 22:20), who protects us from eternal death. God’s Old Testament people ate the Passover lamb. Now we must eat the Lamb that is the Eucharist. Jesus said, "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you" (John 6:53).
At the Last Supper he took bread and wine and said, "Take and eat. This is my body . . . This is my blood which will be shed for you" (Mark 14:22–24). In this way Jesus instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist, the sacrificial meal Catholics consume at each Mass.
The Catholic Church teaches that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross occurred "once for all"; it cannot be repeated (Heb. 9:28). Christ does not "die again" during Mass, but the very same sacrifice that occurred on Calvary is made present on the altar. That’s why the Mass is not "another" sacrifice, but a participation in the same, once-for-all sacrifice of Christ on the cross.
Paul reminds us that the bread and the wine really become, by a miracle of God’s grace, the actual body and blood of Jesus: "Anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself" (1 Cor. 11:27–29).
After the consecration of the bread and wine, no bread or wine remains on the altar. Only Jesus himself, under the appearance of bread and wine, remains.
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