Question for Muslims

[TG123]

4. It should also be noted that the meaning of the verse in Arabic is meant to imply that there is no food other than food of such a nature. This is the beauty of the Qur'anic arabic, as Syed Qutb (d. 1966CE) notes:

They are "made to drink from a boiling fountain. Their only food shall be the fruit of Dhari', which will neither nourish nor satisfy their hunger." Dhari' is said to be a tree of fire in Hell. This explanation is based on what has been revealed about the tree of "zayqoom" which grows at the centre of Hell. It is also said to be a kind of cactus thorn, which when green is called "shabraq" and is eaten by camels. However, when it is fully grown it cannot be eaten as it becomes poisonous. Whatever it is in reality, it is a kind of food like "ghisleen" and "shabraq" (names given by the Qur'an to refer to the food available in Hell) which neither nourishes nor appeases hunger.

It is obvious that we, in this world, cannot fully comprehend the nature of that suffering and torture in the hereafter. The description is made in order to give our human perceptions the feeling of the greatest possible pain, which is produced by a combination of humiliation, weakness, failure, the scorching fire, drinking and bathing in boiling water, and eating food unacceptable even to the camels.

From all these aspects we get a feeling of the ultimate affliction. But the affliction of the hereafter is, nevertheless, greater. Its true nature is incomprehensible except to those who will actually experience it. May Allah never count us among them. (SOURCE)

Similarly, Shaykh Ibrahim Memon Madani says:

Here there is a question that some other ayaat are talking about some other type of food people will have in the Hell-fire. Just like inna shajarata zaqqum - a tree that's called az-zaqqum. When Allah SWT says they will have only this thing to eat, it simply means they will have only these type of items in the Hell-fire. Nothing of real food. Everything that they will use for food over there will not be really food, just like they will go to that stream of pus and would start drinking from it - its not food. They would go to those trees that have poisoned fruits, full of thorns, and they will start chewing that - [but] it's not something to eat. So, it simply means nothing that deserves to be used as a food over there. People will just start taking things from here and there, whatever they find they will just start eating those.

Hence, the type of exclusion given in the verses does not exclude substances of a similar nature. If the verses were about this life, and one stated that a group of people would have no food but terrible thorny plants, while another verse stated that the same group would have roast chicken (or some other pleasant food), then it might be a contradiction. However, this is not the case here. The meaning of the Qur'an is clear that no matter what the food, it will be an unbearable torture beyond human imagination.

I understand that the Quran is saying that the food in hell will be terrible. However, this still doesn't resolve the fact that two verses contradict one another, in describing the terrible foods. If a verse states that a person in hell eats nothing but terrible food A and another verse states that a person in hell eats nothing but terrible food B, the 2 verses contradict. They may be unanimous in stating the food in hell will be terrible, but they contradict on what the food will be.

5. Lastly, it should be noted that there are different levels in Hell, and different groups in Hell. All these groups will recieve different punishments depending on what they deserve. The verse about Ghisleen states that none shall eat it except the khati'un (a category of sinners), who neither believed in Allah nor fed the poor and needy. Meanwhile, the chapter about Dari is only speaking about some people who will enter Naaran Haamiyah (88:2-4), which some scholars describe as a certain level of Hell-fire. As Imaam Al-Qurtubi mentions in his tafsir:

Allah has said: "Therefore he has not here today a true friend, Nor any food save filth" [Al-Haqqah, 35-36] Allah said here "Nor any food save filth" which is different than Ghisleen. It is believed that Hell-fire is made of levels, those who eat from al-zaqoom, those who eat from al-ghisleen, those who eat from Al-dharee', those who drink from hameem, and those who drink from As-sideed. Al-Kalbi said: Al-Dharee' is for those on a certain station [in Hell] and Al-zaqoom are for those on a different station. (SOURCE)

88:2 describes the fate of the disbelievers and hypocrites.

Tafsir Ibn Abbas

(On that day) the Day of Judgement ((many) faces) the faces of the disbelievers and hypocrites (will be downcast) abased because of the chastisement,

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - ÇáÊÝÇÓíÑ

69:33 also describes those who did not believe in God

Tafsir Ibn Abbas

(Lo! he used not to believe in Allah the Tremendous) when he was in the life of the world,

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - ÇáÊÝÇÓíÑ

Both verses describe disbelievers. Yet the Quran states in 88:6 that they will eat only dari and in 69:36 that they will eat only pus flowing from wounds.

 

[TG123]

sorry for not following up

when the Mighty Creator says :

4:82. Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions.

you better believe it. just because you do not know enough abot the Arabic language and Quranic science does not mean it is wrong

Salaam Alaikum, sunrise.

Unfortunately, the Quran does contain contradictions. The food that will be eaten by people in hell is one of them.

 

[TG123]

This is proof that these are symbolic teachings. The exact same applies to Christianity. Many of the teachings in the Bible and Quran are symbolic.

Hellfire refers to the flames of remorse for wasting one's life in selfishness and opposition to the Divine teachings, and failing to learn faithfulness and love.

Recall Jesus' statements:"let the dead bury their dead", "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not" and his constant use of metaphor to teach his followers (parables).

To insist on literal fulfillment of the teachings of the Bible and Quran is to miss what Muhammad and Christ (peace be upon them!) actually meant by their words.

I think both Christians and Muslims for the most part would unite in disagreeing with you on this point. Both the Bible and Quran state clearly that hell is a very real place of physical torment. The fire is real.

 

[light upon light]

I think both Christians and Muslims for the most part would unite in disagreeing with you on this point.

It would thrill me to no end to see Christians and Muslims unite!

Both the Bible and Quran state clearly that hell is a very real place of physical torment. The fire is real.

Of course the fire is real. Just because something is a metaphor doesn't mean it isn't real! Literal and real are not synonyms.

The majority of Christians are Roman Catholics, for them hell is a spiritual condition and not a physical place, at least if they agree with official Catholic doctrine.

And you could also state that most liberal Christians also accept that hell is not a physical place.

So there are a great many Christians who deny a physical hell, well over half if you consider religious organizations and their official teachings.

Of Muslims, I expect the majority of Sufis deny a physical hell. But they are not a very large fraction of Muslims.

So I guess the bottom line is a fair number of Muslims think Christians are going to burn in hell for believing the wrong thing, and a fair number of Christians think Muslims are going to burn in hell for believing the wrong thing.

 

[TG123]

It would thrill me to no end to see Christians and Muslims unite!

We agree on some things, disagree on others. It is safe to say that on issues like the existence of God, not only Muslims and Christians but also Bahaii and Jews and Sikhs and other people are united. On others, we differ.

Of course the fire is real. Just because something is a metaphor doesn't mean it isn't real! Literal and real are not synonyms.

I believe it is is both real and literal.

The majority of Christians are Roman Catholics, for them hell is a spiritual condition and not a physical place, at least if they agree with official Catholic doctrine.

And you could also state that most liberal Christians also accept that hell is not a physical place.

So there are a great many Christians who deny a physical hell, well over half if you consider religious organizations and their official teachings.

Many Christians believe hell isn't a physical place, but many of us do. The Bible says it is a place where people will be physically tormented.

Of Muslims, I expect the majority of Sufis deny a physical hell. But they are not a very large fraction of Muslims.

Can you show some evidence of this?

So I guess the bottom line is a fair number of Muslims think Christians are going to burn in hell for believing the wrong thing, and a fair number of Christians think Muslims are going to burn in hell for believing the wrong thing.

Yes. We believe what our Scripture says, even if that makes some people cry.


You can however escape hell if you put your faith in Jesus Christ and accept Who He is and what He has done for you. Then there will be need for tears, either on the Internet or in real life or eternity.

 

[light upon light]

Yes. We believe what our Scripture says, even if that makes some people cry.

Believing what the scriptures say isn't good enough. God wants us to demonstrate that we love His spirit, not just His words. Anais and Caiphas used the literal truth of words of the Old Testament to reject Jesus. "Elias must first come". And so they rejected Him and crucified Him. The test was to recognize that Jesus came with the spirit of God.

You can however escape hell if you put your faith in Jesus Christ and accept Who He is and what He has done for you. Then there will be need for tears, either on the Internet or in real life or eternity.

After Hitler murdered the Jew Anne Frank in a concentration camp, tell me is God burning her in the flames of hell now for the past 68 years? Just give me an honest, straight, yes or no answer.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Assalamu Alaikum, LoveBeingAMuslimah,

Thank you for sharing the article. Here is my response.

Wa Alaikum & no problem.

While some of the early scholars understood Ghisleen to refer to a tree, others understood it to mean pus.

Yes, but I believe the article was trying to answer it through various angles (using different opinions).

Ghisleen may be found in Dari, but if a person eats only Dari s/he eats only the exterior, and if s/he eats only the pus, s/he eats only the interior.

I believe that daree' is the entire thing while ghisleen is only part of it.

It would be like saying that a person eats only sugar and oil in one sentence and that a person eats only flour in another, when in fact they only eat pancakes. Only eating pancakes does not make either the first or second sentence true. The first and second sentence contradict each other, even if all 3 ingredients are found in a pancake.

It would be true (although clumsy) to say a person eats only sugar, oil and flour, which would mean they only eat pancakes.

However saying a person eats only sugar and oil in one sentence and that s/he eats only flour in another, would not mean they eat pancakes.

Similarly, saying a person in hell will eat only pus in one sentence and that s/he will eat only Dari in another does not mean they will be eating a Dari filled with pus.

I think the pancake analogy is the wrong analogy to use.

I would have used the analogy of a dandelion. If I tell you that I'm eating a dandelion, you don't know if I'm eating the entire thing or if I'm just eating the flower, leaf, or root of the dandelion.

So if someone from Hell is eating from daree', they may very well be eating the ghisleen portion.

88:2 describes the fate of the disbelievers and hypocrites.

69:33 also describes those who did not believe in God

Both verses describe disbelievers. Yet the Quran states in 88:6 that they will eat only dari and in 69:36 that they will eat only pus flowing from wounds.

If this angle (that certain portions of Hell will receive different treatment) is correct, then 88:2 might be more general than 69:33-36 (which specifically mention those who did not encourage feeding the poor):

Verily, He used not to believe in Allāh, the Most Great, (Al-Haqqah 69:33)

And urged not on the feeding of Al Miskīn (the poor), (Al-Haqqah 69:34)


Also, according to this link:

IslamicAwakening.Com: The Food, Drink and Clothing of the People of Hell

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]al-Ghasleen and al-Ghassaaq mean the same thing, which is the festering pus that oozes out of the skin of the people of Hell. It was suggested that it refers to the offensive discharge that flows from the private parts of adulterous women, and the decaying skin and flesh of the kuffaar. al-Qurtubee said, "It is the juice of the people of Hell" [Yaqhadhat uli al-I'tibaar, p. 86][/FONT]
​

So maybe it can also be called a "drink" which makes sense since we can say we're eating tomato soup or we're drinking tomato soup

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Of Muslims, I expect the majority of Sufis deny a physical hell. But they are not a very large fraction of Muslims.

The fact that there are different types of sufis aside, I don't think they do. I know that some might think that we should not worship Allaah out of fear of Hell or desire of Paradise though (which means they believe they're both literal), but that's extremely flawed because

a.) the companions of the Prophet Muhammad desired Paradise and feared Hell so why do people think that they will have a higher amount of love for Allaah than the companions?

and

b.) Allaah mentioned the rewards of Paradise and the punishments of Hell for a reason (i.e. it wasn't pointless). If He didn't want us to fear Hell or desire Paradise, what would be the wisdom behind even mentioning them?

So I guess the bottom line is a fair number of Muslims think Christians are going to burn in hell for believing the wrong thing, and a fair number of Christians think Muslims are going to burn in hell for believing the wrong thing.

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islām, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers. (Aali Imran 3:85)

Allaah tells it to us clearly.

After Hitler murdered the Jew Anne Frank in a concentration camp, tell me is God burning her in the flames of hell now for the past 68 years? Just give me an honest, straight, yes or no answer.

This is an emotional/loaded question, honestly. We are not more merciful than God (who is the Most-Merciful) and yet we know that He has determined eternal Hell as a punishment for major disbelief.

Abu Taalib, the uncle of the Prophet who raised the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) after he became an orphan, loved him more than his own sons, and protected him from polytheists of the Arabia who were persecuting the Muslims. He didn't become Muslim though. When Abu Taalib was on his deathbed, the Prophet Muhammad visited him and kept on asking him to him to say the testimony of faith so that the Prophet Muhammad could intercede for him (you know, since he will intercede for the Muslims by the permission of Allaah). In the end, however, Abu Taalib died upon disbelief and, as per authentic narrations, will have a place in Hell.

He will have the least amount of punishment among the people of Hell, but the person who has the "lightest" punishment will still feel like he has it the worst. The love of the Prophet Muhammad doesn't really mean much more than a lighter punishment for Abu Taalib because Abu Taalib died on the worst sin.


And, btw, this was known as the year of sorrow for the Prophet partly because of the death of Abu Taalib.

 

[LoAmmi]

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islām, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers. (Aali Imran 3:85)

Allaah tells it to us clearly.

Your book says so clearly. My book doesn't. Christian's New Testament doesn't. It's almost like there's some sort of disagreement between almost all religions....

 

[sunrise0]

Salaam Alaikum, sunrise.

Unfortunately, the Quran does contain contradictions. The food that will be eaten by people in hell is one of them.

I do not know if your claim was answered by Muslims here, therefore I will:

to judge a verse in the Holy Quran you need to refer to the interpretation, In this case you need to know these facts:

With regard to numbers, there is one Hell and one Paradise, but each of them has degrees and levels. Paradise is sometimes mentioned in the plural in the Sunnah, but this does not mean that there are several types of Paradise; rather this is indicative of its greatness and the various degrees and levels in it, or it is indicative of the greatness of the reward of the one who enters it, as it says in the hadeeth of Anas ibn Maalik that Umm al-Rubayyi’ bint al-Bara’ , who was the mother of Haarithah ibn Suraaqah, came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: O Prophet of Allaah, will you not tell me about Haarithah?” – who had been killed at the battle of Badr by a stray arrow. “If he is in Paradise I will bear it with patience but if it is otherwise then I shall weep long and hard for him.” He said: “O Umm Haarithah, there are gardens in Paradise – according to another report: many gardens – and your son has attained the highest Firdaws.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2809.
Secondly:
The levels of Hell differ according to the extent of their inhabitants’ kufr in this world. The hypocrites will be in the lowest level of Hell, as our Lord has told us (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depth (grade) of the Fire; no helper will you find for them”​

[al-Nisa’ 4:145]
The least severe (in torment) of its levels – from which we seek refuge with Allaah – was mentioned by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in the hadeeth reported by al-Nu’maan ibn Basheer who said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The least severely punished of the people of Hell will be a man who has two shoes and shoelaces of Fire – according to another version: two live coals will be placed on the soles of his feet – because of which his brains will boil as a pot boils. He will not think that anyone is being punished more severely than him, but he will be the one who is punished most lightly.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6562; Muslim, 212. The person is named specifically in a report narrated by Muslim, where it says that this is Abu Taalib, the paternal uncle of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), for whom Allaah will reduce the punishment because of the role he played in protecting Islam at the beginning.
Thirdly:
We know of no limit to the number of degrees and levels in Paradise. It was said that their number is equal to the number of verses in the Qur’aan, based on the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr, who said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It will be said to the companion of the Qur’aan: ‘Recite and rise in status as you used to recite in the world, and your position will be at the last verse you recite.’” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 1646; al-Tirmidhi, 2914; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
Al-Mundhiri said in al-Targheeb: al-Khattaabi said: It said in the report that the number of verses in the Qur’aan is the number of degrees or levels of Paradise in the Hereafter, and it will be said to the reader: ‘Rise through the levels to the extent that you used to read the verses of the Qur’aan. Whoever recites all of the Qur’aan, will reach the highest degree of Paradise in the Hereafter, and whoever recites part of it will reach a level commensurate with that, and the limit of his reward will match the limit of his reading. Al-Targheeb wa’l-Tarheeb, 2/228

But this idea is subject to further discussion, because the hadeeth speaks of the manaazil (status, position) of those who memorized Qur’aan, not of their darajaat (degrees, levels). The darajah (degree or level) varies according to their efforts in this world, just as there are other acts of faith in which people vary in status, such as sincere faith, jihad and others. So we cannot say that the one who memorized the entire Qur’aan will be in the highest degrees of Paradise in absolute terms.​

The highest of the degrees of Paradise is al-Firdaws, as it was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “… When you ask of Allaah, ask Him for al-Firdaws, for it is in the middle of Paradise and is the highest part of Paradise, and above it is the Throne of the Most Merciful, and from it spring forth the rivers of Paradise.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2637; Muslim, 2831
What is meant by the “middle of Paradise” is the best of it, as when Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Thus We have made you a just (and the best) nation (lit. a middle nation)”
[al-Baqarah 2:143]
The Sunnah also describes the position of those who do certain actions. For example:
1 – Faith in Allaah and belief in the Messengers:
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The people of Paradise will be able to see the people in the apartments above them as you see the shining stars on the horizon in the east and the west, because of the differences in their status.” They said: “O Messenger of Allaah, is that the status of the Prophets which no one else will reach besides them?” He said: “No, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, they are men who had faith in Allaah and believed in the Messengers.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2082; Muslim, 2831.
2 – Jihad for the sake of Allaah:
It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “In Paradise there are one hundred degrees which Allaah has prepared for those who strive in jihad for the sake of Allaah. The distance between each two degrees is like the distance between the heavens and the earth.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2637.
3 – The one who sincerely desires martyrdom may also attain that.
It was narrated from Sahl ibn Haneef that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever asks Allaah sincerely for martyrdom, Allaah will cause him to reach the status of the martyrs even if he dies in his bed.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1909.
4 – Spending for the sake of Allaah.
It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The poor came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “The rich people have taken all the highest positions. They pray as we pray, and they fast as we fast, but they have surplus wealth with which they perform Hajj and strive in jihad and give in charity…” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 807; Muslim, 595.
5 – Doing wudoo’ properly even when it is difficult, taking many steps towards the mosque and waiting for prayer after prayer.
It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Shall I not tell you of something by means of which Allaah erases sins and raises you in status?” They said: “Yes, O Messenger of Allaah.” He said: “Doing wudoo’ well even when it is difficult, taking many steps to the mosques and waiting for prayer after prayer. That is (equivalent) to guarding the frontier.” Narrated by Muslim, 251.
6 – Memorizing Qur’aan
‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It will be said to the companion of the Qur’aan: ‘Recite and rise in status as you used to recite in the world, and your position will be at the last verse you recite.’” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 1646; al-Tirmidhi, 2914; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
The one who is keen should set his sights on the highest position in Paradise and strive to earn the pleasure of Allaah and enter the Paradise of al-Firdaws, which is the highest that Allaah has promised.


This long article is to tell you that the food, punishment, leasure is according to where a person goes, therefore dare' is food for some Hell-dwellers, ghisleen is for another, and so forth.

 

[TG123]

Wa Alaikum & no problem.

Great.

Yes, but I believe the article was trying to answer it through various angles (using different opinions).

I agree with you on this. I have taken the time to read the article and the different opinions. Most of them however seem to point to the belief that Ghisleen means pus. Corpus Quran also translates it as pus. So did Ibn Abbas, who knew Muhammad personally.

I believe that daree' is the entire thing while ghisleen is only part of it.

The tafsir commentators stated that dari is a cactus-like plant. Most of them stated that ghisleen is pus.

If you eat only ghisleen, you cannot also eat the dari part.

I think the pancake analogy is the wrong analogy to use.

Why?

I would have used the analogy of a dandelion. If I tell you that I'm eating a dandelion, you don't know if I'm eating the entire thing or if I'm just eating the flower, leaf, or root of the dandelion.

So if someone from Hell is eating from daree', they may very well be eating the ghisleen portion.

Sure, let's use the dandelion analogy. If you say you are eating a dandelion, that would mean to most people you are eating the flower- including all the parts. If you say however that you are eating only the leaf or only the flower or only the root, it would mean now that you are not eating the whole dandelion, but only part of it.


As the tafsirs helpfully point out, the dari is a bitter and thorny plant. Ghisliin on the other hand, is pus.


They are two different things. Ghisliin may be found in the dari, but as the Quran points out the people in hellfire eat both of them... while at the same time saying for each one that it is the only food that people in hellfire have access to. It still contradicts.

If this angle (that certain portions of Hell will receive different treatment) is correct, then 88:2 might be more general than 69:33-36 (which specifically mention those who did not encourage feeding the poor):

Verily, He used not to believe in Allāh, the Most Great, (Al-Haqqah 69:33)

And urged not on the feeding of Al Miskīn (the poor), (Al-Haqqah 69:34)

Let's instead of looking at 69:33-36, look at 69:33-37

Sahih International
Indeed, he did not used to believe in Allah , the Most Great,​

69:34 to top

Sahih International
Nor did he encourage the feeding of the poor.​

69:35 to top

Sahih International
So there is not for him here this Day any devoted friend​

69:36 to top

Sahih International
Nor any food except from the discharge of wounds;​

69:37 to top

Sahih International
None will eat it except the sinners.

Surat Al-Haqqah - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

​

As 69:37 points out, the only people eating the discharge of wounds will be the sinners... if I am not mistaken, sinners make up 100% of the inhabitants of hell.

So the Quran states that the only food available to those who did not believe in God and did not feed the poor will be pus... pus which will be eaten by none except the sinners.

Later, it states that the only food for disbelievers will be the thorny plant.

Also, according to this link:

IslamicAwakening.Com: The Food, Drink and Clothing of the People of Hell

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]al-Ghasleen and al-Ghassaaq mean the same thing, which is the festering pus that oozes out of the skin of the people of Hell. It was suggested that it refers to the offensive discharge that flows from the private parts of adulterous women, and the decaying skin and flesh of the kuffaar. al-Qurtubee said, "It is the juice of the people of Hell" [Yaqhadhat uli al-I'tibaar, p. 86][/FONT]
​

So maybe it can also be called a "drink" which makes sense since we can say we're eating tomato soup or we're drinking tomato soup

I am sure it can be called a drink, but the Quran also classifies it as food.

It states that the only food available to those in hell will be dari (a thorny plant), and in another part it states the only food available to those in hell will be ghisleeen (pus). This contradicts.

Take care, and may God lead us to the Truth.

 

[TG123]

Believing what the scriptures say isn't good enough. God wants us to demonstrate that we love His spirit, not just His words. Anais and Caiphas used the literal truth of words of the Old Testament to reject Jesus. "Elias must first come". And so they rejected Him and crucified Him. The test was to recognize that Jesus came with the spirit of God.

As the Bible makes very clear, faith is shown in works. A faith that has no works is a dead faith. A person who has faith in Jesus will live his/her life accordingly.

James 2:14-26
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

After Hitler murdered the Jew Anne Frank in a concentration camp, tell me is God burning her in the flames of hell now for the past 68 years? Just give me an honest, straight, yes or no answer.

If I was God, I would gladly answer that question for you. However, I am not Him.

 

[light upon light]

Allaah mentioned the rewards of Paradise and the punishments of Hell for a reason (i.e. it wasn't pointless). If He didn't want us to fear Hell or desire Paradise, what would be the wisdom behind even mentioning them?

Of course we should fear hell and desire paradise. The fact that hell and paradise are conditions of our own being does not make them any less real. I have worked with suicidal people and let me tell you the hell of a mind that is consuming its own negative thoughts and emotions is a fierce and blazing fire indeed!

Although at the highest stages of development, one is not motivated by fear of hell or desire for paradise, but only by love of God! That is our goal.

 

[light upon light]

Originally Posted by light upon light
After Hitler murdered the Jew Anne Frank in a concentration camp, tell me is God burning her in the flames of hell now for the past 68 years? Just give me an honest, straight, yes or no answer.

If I was God, I would gladly answer that question for you. However, I am not Him.

I'm not God either, and I can tell you that any belief system that postulates that, after Hitler murdered 15 million Jews, pagans, homosexuals and other "undesirables", that God is now torturing them in Hell forever with flames and lava is:

1) Wrong.

2) Blasphemous against the true and loving God. This would make God more evil and worse than Hitler, which of course He is not.

 

[TG123]

I'm not God either, and I can tell you that any belief system that postulates that, after Hitler murdered 15 million Jews, pagans, homosexuals and other "undesirables", that God is now torturing them in Hell forever with flames and lava is:

1) Wrong.

2) Blasphemous against the true and loving God. This would make God more evil and worse than Hitler, which of course He is not.

One could argue that a true and loving God would not have allowed the Holocaust in the first place, or given people free will seeing as how we are capable of such monstrosities. Yet He did.

The Bible makes very clear that those who do not put their faith in Jesus face an eternity in Hell. This may be offensive and is probably very politically incorrect, but this is what God teaches us.

You can choose either to accept His views or accept the views of the world. I'll go by what He has to say, but everyone is free to make their own choice.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

If you eat only ghisleen, you cannot also eat the dari part.

I believe that daree'/zaqqum is the entire plant according to this interpretation (mentioned in the link) and ghisleen is a part of them.

Why?

Because those ingredients are not found from one thing. Doesn't matter much though.

Sure, let's use the dandelion analogy. If you say you are eating a dandelion, that would mean to most people you are eating the flower- including all the parts. If you say however that you are eating only the leaf or only the flower or only the root, it would mean now that you are not eating the whole dandelion, but only part of it.

Maybe I'm strange then, since the second question I'd ask a person who just told me they're eating dandelion is what part. I would assume the flower...or maybe leaf if it's in a salad.

As the tafsirs helpfully point out, the dari is a bitter and thorny plant. Ghisliin on the other hand, is pus.

They are two different things. Ghisliin may be found in the dari, but as the Quran points out the people in hellfire eat both of them... while at the same time saying for each one that it is the only food that people in hellfire have access to.

It still contradicts.

Let's instead of looking at 69:33-36, look at 69:33-37

Sahih International
Indeed, he did not used to believe in Allah , the Most Great,​

69:34 to top

Sahih International
Nor did he encourage the feeding of the poor.​

69:35 to top

Sahih International
So there is not for him here this Day any devoted friend​

69:36 to top

Sahih International
Nor any food except from the discharge of wounds;​

69:37 to top

Sahih International
None will eat it except the sinners.

Surat Al-Haqqah - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

​

As 69:37 points out, the only people eating the discharge of wounds will be the sinners... if I am not mistaken, sinners make up 100% of the inhabitants of hell.

So the Quran states that the only food available to those who did not believe in God and did not feed the poor will be pus... pus which will be eaten by none except the sinners.

Later, it states that the only food for disbelievers will be the thorny plant.

The term used is al-khaatiun.

Anyways, this may prove to be beneficial to you (they mainly look at the Qur'aan through the linguistic perspective):

So the people in the Hellfire will drink boiling water and eat that which comes out of the open wounds (Ghisleen).

Why is this?

How do we Purify our wealth? Through giving Zakah to the needy (charity which purifies our wealth.)

Because this person did not purify his wealth (by giving to the poor) – his wealth remained impure. He would eat filth and impure food in the worldly life, and he will now eat impure food in Hell too.

and regarding verse 37:

The people who were destroyed from past nations because of their Evils [KhaaTi'ah] (mentioned in ayah 12 of this surah), didn’t give rights to Allah nor the creation. Similarly, the people who don’t give rights from future generations will also face a similar fate (in this life and the next).

So Allah describes all of them as the Ultimate Losers (KhaaTi’oon) in this ayah.

From this ayah, we see:

- No-one WILL eat these foods, except them.
– Nobody CAN eat these foods besides these people.
– Nobody will BE ABLE to physically eat it besides these people (due to their extreme hunger and desperation).

The Reward is in Accordance to the Action:- So these people have gone so Low in the sight of Allah, that Allah recompenses their Evils with such severe Punishment.

We ask Allah to save us from being punished by His Justice, and that He reward us by His Mercy. Ameen, ya Allah!

Surah Haqqah – the Inevitable Event (69) « Linguistic Miracle


Plus, look here:

Verily, those who unjustly eat up the property of orphans, they eat up only a fire into their bellies, and they will be burnt in the blazing Fire! (An-Nisa 4:10)


God knows best, but these verses make it clear that different types of sins/sinners will have different punishments and/or will be in different levels of Hell.

So perhaps the interpretation that this will only be a 'food' for select groups of people IS correct. Or perhaps a combination(s) of the interpretations on the call-to-monotheism site are right. Or maybe there are also other interpretations not mentioned on the site that are correct. God knows best. But, again, there isn't a contradiction here. If you want to believe that it is one, go ahead. No one guides except Allaah. But this allegation is not going to convince Muslims that our religion is not right.

Take care, and may God lead us to the Truth.

Ameen and you too.


God knows best.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Of course we should fear hell and desire paradise. The fact that hell and paradise are conditions of our own being does not make them any less real. I have worked with suicidal people and let me tell you the hell of a mind that is consuming its own negative thoughts and emotions is a fierce and blazing fire indeed!

Those thoughts are not nearly as horrible as the punishment that awaits disbelievers in the real & literal Hell (and even some believers if their sins outweigh their good deeds and Allaah didn't forgive them for those sins).

As the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him said),

"One of the people of Hell who found the most pleasure in the life of this world will be brought forth on the Day of Resurrection, and will be dipped into the Fire of Hell. Then he will be asked: O son of Aadam, have you ever seen anything good? Have you ever enjoyed any pleasure?" He will say, "No, by Allâh (swt), O Rabb"" (Muslim, Mishkât al-Masâbîh, 3/102).

Al-Jannah wal An-Nâr - The Paradise and the Hellfire #5/12 - Islamic Network

subhanAllaah! Just a DIP is enough to make the person from Hell who had the best life in this world forget all of those luxuries and happiness.

Although at the highest stages of development, one is not motivated by fear of hell or desire for paradise, but only by love of God! That is our goal.

Do you believe that at this highest stage of development that we shouldn't fear Hell nor desire Paradise?

2) Blasphemous against the true and loving God. This would make God more evil and worse than Hitler, which of course He is not.

What do you make of Allaah since He is going to send Abu Taalib to Hell (even though he did a lot for the Prophet Muhammad)?

 

[light upon light]

One could argue that a true and loving God would not have allowed the Holocaust in the first place, or given people free will seeing as how we are capable of such monstrosities. Yet He did.

I wouldn't argue that.

Look at it this way. Who was nailed to the cross? God was.

We don't exist, except as experiences within the mind of God. Everything we go through, God goes through.

So God created us so that we could know God. Which requires knowing the opposite of God.

Real love requires freedom. Robots can't love. Love requires the CHOICE to love, which also requires the ability to choose to hate.

The Bible makes very clear that those who do not put their faith in Jesus face an eternity in Hell. This may be offensive and is probably very politically incorrect, but this is what God teaches us.


You can choose either to accept His views or accept the views of the world. I'll go by what He has to say, but everyone is free to make their own choice.

Of course those who choose to oppose God, who choose to put their faith in their vain desires, those who choose hate over love are going to experience the burning fire of remorse.

We get one shot at life. We can choose to serve Him, or to serve our corrupt and petty wishes. And that choice is eternal. 30,000 days and nights to love God, or not, if we live 80 years. I've spend more than half of that. Much of it in service of my own corrupt and petty desires. God willing I will do better with whatever the Lord grants me from here on.

Obviously those who choose, like Mona Mahmudnizhad, to "kiss the rope" of martyrdom for God are going to occupy a very different spiritual station than the ones who put that rope around her neck and hung her from it.

Obviously, those who recognize the Truth when it comes to us in human form are going to occupy a different spiritual station than those who oppose the Truth.

Those who only recognize religious doctrines and dogmas will discover to their regret:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 7:21-23

 

[light upon light]

Those thoughts are not nearly as horrible as the punishment that awaits disbelievers in the real & literal Hell (and even some believers if their sins outweigh their good deeds and Allaah didn't forgive them for those sins).

As the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him said),

"One of the people of Hell who found the most pleasure in the life of this world will be brought forth on the Day of Resurrection, and will be dipped into the Fire of Hell. Then he will be asked: O son of Aadam, have you ever seen anything good? Have you ever enjoyed any pleasure?" He will say, "No, by Allâh (swt), O Rabb"" (Muslim, Mishkât al-Masâbîh, 3/102).

That is because there IS no real pleasure in life except to love God and serve God.

To have great food, lots of money and sex with beautiful people is dust and ashes compared to living a life of love, faith and purpose. So of course when all eyes are opened those who have wasted their lives will know it has been for nothing.

"When the sun is darkened
And when the stars fall,
And when the mountains shattered
And when the pregnant camel is abandoned
And when the wild beasts are gathered
And when the seas are filled with flame
And when the souls are paired
And when the infant girl, buried alive is asked
For what crime she was killed
And when the pages are made public
And when the sky is stripped away
And when Hellfire is set ablaze
And when Paradise is brought near,
Then every soul will know what it has done and what it has failed to do." - Quran 81:1-14

Al-Jannah wal An-Nâr - The Paradise and the Hellfire #5/12 - Islamic Network

subhanAllaah! Just a DIP is enough to make the person from Hell who had the best life in this world forget all of those luxuries and happiness.

Baha'u'llah said exactly the same:


"The souls of the infidels, however, shall—and to this I bear witness—when breathing their last be made aware of the good things that have escaped them, and shall bemoan their plight, and shall humble themselves before God. They shall continue doing so after the separation of their souls from their bodies."

Do you believe that at this highest stage of development that we shouldn't fear Hell nor desire Paradise?

It's not not about shouldn't. It's about doesn't.

“Love is a light that never dwelleth in a heart possessed by fear.” - Baha'u'llah

"perfect love casteth out fear" - Bible 1 John 4:18

What do you make of Allaah since He is going to send Abu Taalib to Hell (even though he did a lot for the Prophet Muhammad)?

Abu Taalib cast himself into the hell of deprivation of true faith in God through his failure to recognize God's spirit in Muhammad.

Faith is a choice. Recognition of God in his Manifestation is a choice.

"The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed." - Baha'u'llah

 

[TG123]

I believe that daree'/zaqqum is the entire plant according to this interpretation (mentioned in the link) and ghisleen is a part of them.
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If dari is the entire plant and ghisleen is part of it, if one eats only ghisleen one does not eat the dari. If you eat dari you eat the whole thing, if you eat ghisleen, you eat only part of it. Eating ghisleen only excludes eating dari.

Because those ingredients are not found from one thing. Doesn't matter much though.

Flour, oil and sugar are found in pancakes.

Maybe I'm strange then, since the second question I'd ask a person who just told me they're eating dandelion is what part. I would assume the flower...or maybe leaf if it's in a salad.

If you ask a person who claims he ate a dandelion what part he ate and he said he ate the flower, that means he or she didn't eat the dandelion in whole, but just the flower.

But if this person told you s/he eats only dandelions in one sentence and then in another said that s/he eats only the dandelion flower, s/he would be contradicting themself.

The term used is al-khaatiun.

Anyways, this may prove to be beneficial to you (they mainly look at the Qur'aan through the linguistic perspective):

So the people in the Hellfire will drink boiling water and eat that which comes out of the open wounds (Ghisleen).

Why is this?

How do we Purify our wealth? Through giving Zakah to the needy (charity which purifies our wealth.)

Because this person did not purify his wealth (by giving to the poor) – his wealth remained impure. He would eat filth and impure food in the worldly life, and he will now eat impure food in Hell too.

and regarding verse 37:

The people who were destroyed from past nations because of their Evils [KhaaTi'ah] (mentioned in ayah 12 of this surah), didn’t give rights to Allah nor the creation. Similarly, the people who don’t give rights from future generations will also face a similar fate (in this life and the next).

So Allah describes all of them as the Ultimate Losers (KhaaTi’oon) in this ayah.

From this ayah, we see:

- No-one WILL eat these foods, except them.
– Nobody CAN eat these foods besides these people.
– Nobody will BE ABLE to physically eat it besides these people (due to their extreme hunger and desperation).

The Reward is in Accordance to the Action:- So these people have gone so Low in the sight of Allah, that Allah recompenses their Evils with such severe Punishment.

We ask Allah to save us from being punished by His Justice, and that He reward us by His Mercy. Ameen, ya Allah!

Surah Haqqah – the Inevitable Event (69) « Linguistic Miracle


Plus, look here:

Verily, those who unjustly eat up the property of orphans, they eat up only a fire into their bellies, and they will be burnt in the blazing Fire! (An-Nisa 4:10)


God knows best, but these verses make it clear that different types of sins/sinners will have different punishments and/or will be in different levels of Hell.

Thank you for sharing the link, ILoveBeingAMuslimah.

Verse 37 however says

None will eat it except the sinners.

If Ghisleen is not available to people not described in chapter 69, that would mean they are not sinners. Yet they are in hell.

Thanks for bringing up 4:10, I didn't previously notice it. I believe it shows only more problems, since people who steal property from orphans are sinners and they will allegedly only eat fire in their bellies- yet 69:37 states that no one but sinners will eat ghisleen... which will be the only food for disbelievers and those who never urged on feeding the poor.

In his tafsir of 69:37, Ibn Abbas writes:

(Which none but sinners eat) which no one eats except the idolaters.

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - ÇáÊÝÇÓíÑ

Tafsir Al Jalalayn states:

which none shall eat but the sinners’, the disbelievers.

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - ÇáÊÝÇÓíÑ

So perhaps the interpretation that this will only be a 'food' for select groups of people IS correct. Or perhaps a combination(s) of the interpretations on the call-to-monotheism site are right. Or maybe there are also other interpretations not mentioned on the site that are correct. God knows best.

If it were not for 69:37 that states that ghisleen will be available to no one but the sinners (who comprise 100% of the people in hell), I would agree with you.

But, again, there isn't a contradiction here. If you want to believe that it is one, go ahead. No one guides except Allaah. But this allegation is not going to convince Muslims that our religion is not right.

I think this very much is a contradiction, and none of the explanations offered have managed to change that fact. We may have to agree to disagree. I have a very high respect for you, but I believe you are wrong in your faith and I pray you turn to Christ.

Ameen and you too.


God knows best.

Allahma3k. Blessed be His Name.