Hypothetical Christian World

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Okay, so suffice it to say: even though you deserve hell, there is a reasonable chance you will never see it. Is that a fair interpretation of what you've described?

I've noticed that razer's MO is to become metaphysical when he runs out of argument. It will eventually get to a point where you have to be a Jedi Master like him to understand what he trying to convey, and only then will you truly understand that you don't understand. Understand?

 

[Davian]

I've noticed that razer's MO is to become metaphysical when he runs out of argument. It will eventually get to a point where you have to be a Jedi Master like him to understand what he trying to convey, and only then will you truly understand that you don't understand. Understand?

 

[Skavau]

And yet its the godless who accuse Christians for being intolerant bigots when they speak out against murder, against greed, against gluttony, against selfishness, against the pornography industry, against strip clubs, prostitution, sex trafficking, and against numerous other sordid vices that men are loathe to relinquish.

Your sloppiness is unbecoming and inaccurate. No-one, anywhere to my knowledge will accuse anyone of bigotry for speaking out against murder. I would myself argue that greed and selfishness are in general unhelpful and in contrast to virtue but those are traits and not actions. You are lumping in direct actions with traits and then you go on eventually to list specific actions (you exclusively refer to the sex industry, some of which non-Christians do condemn to varying degrees.

At any rate, non-Christians are not and never were a homogenous group that you can dismiss and generalise in such a manner.

Maybe God really is speaking through Christians and trying to encourage the rapists and hustlers and pimps and thieves and robbers and murderers and greedy godless to amend their ways.

HA! AHAHAHAHAHA!

There are more capable ways that can guarantee better results.

On one hand, the godless want the godly to "stay out of their business" and to "mind their own business", and to "stop preaching" and yet now you want God to magically jump smack in the middle of virtually everyone's business when they are about to do something evil.

Actually, forget about man-made evil. I can see your objections there.

This does not explain natural disasters, famines and plagues. Areas of which you have neglected to address.

What is the purpose of them?

 

[Skavau]

I've noticed that razer's MO is to become metaphysical when he runs out of argument. It will eventually get to a point where you have to be a Jedi Master like him to understand what he trying to convey, and only then will you truly understand that you don't understand. Understand?

Yeah, raze often accused me of misrepresenting people. He would butt into a discussion I'd be having with another (and reply as if I was addressing him), piously insist I was making stuff up. I'd then show him direct sourced quotes about what others have said and to take it with them.

He'd still deny it.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Yeah, raze often accused me of misrepresenting people. He would butt into a discussion I'd be having with another (and reply as if I was addressing him), piously insist I was making stuff up. I'd then show him direct sourced quotes about what others have said and to take it with them.

He'd still deny it.

This ^^^

And his annoying insistence of redefining words to suit his assertions.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Why is that evil? Should God surround every car on the highway with an invisible forcefield or foam bumper and inject every driver with a shot of adrenaline so they dont fall asleep at the wheel? Or maybe He should instantaneously detoxify every drunk that gets behind the wheel?

Bingo

People cry and whine for having to have their cars inspected for road worthiness and protest helmet laws for motorcyclist my friend. I assure you, people would not go for any of the above, you know, people wanting to be autonomous and all.

Again, "mind your own business" is not a maxim people apply to the prevention of murder and rape.

 

[Elioenai26]

Bingo


Again, "mind your own business" is not a maxim people apply to the prevention of murder and rape.

Christians have been told to mind their business by many wicked purveyors of all sorts of filth which are directly detrimental to the welfare of humans. Everytime, they are met with "mind your own business" and "stop preaching at us" and "you should be more tolerant." etc etc.

Christians protest the murder of unborn children and are told to "mind their own business".

Christians protest sex trafficking and are told to "mind their own business" by those who profit from it.

Christians protest the pornography industry and are told to "mind their own business".

Christians protest against "alternate sexualities" and are told to "mind their own business".

You are living in denial if you think people want cosmic censorship to curtail their "rights to do what they want".

You're mad at God for not being and thinking like you do.

I thank God He is nothing like you.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Christians have been told to mind their business by many wicked purveyors of all sorts of filth which are directly detrimental to the welfare of humans. Everytime, they are met with "mind your own business" and "stop preaching at us" and "you should be more tolerant." etc etc.

Christians protest the murder of unborn children and are told to "mind their own business".

Christians protest sex trafficking and are told to "mind their own business" by those who profit from it.

Christians protest the pornography industry and are told to "mind their own business".

Christians protest against "alternate sexualities" and are told to "mind their own business".

You are living in denial if you think people want cosmic censorship to curtail their "rights to do what they want".

And you are living in denial if you think your stereotyping and broad-brushing is justifying your point.

And once again, the bottom line remains: God can, but won't, stop the rape of children. You think this is excused because there are some things 'mind your own business' applies to?

You're mad at God for not being and thinking like you do.

I don't believe God exists. I'm not mad at him, anymore than I'm mad at Lord Voldemort for taking over the Ministry of Magic.

I thank God He is nothing like you.

So I, WC, would prevent the rape of children. God can, but won't, prevent the rape of children. And I'm the bad guy?

 

[KCfromNC]

Why is that evil? Should God surround every car on the highway with an invisible forcefield or foam bumper and inject every driver with a shot of adrenaline so they dont fall asleep at the wheel? Or maybe He should instantaneously detoxify every drunk that gets behind the wheel?

Sounds good to me. Your tone seems to think otherwise. Why are you in favor of people dying in automobile accidents?

Or maybe He should just make every car in the world disappear so there can be no automobile accidents?

Yeah, teleporters would be a great time saver. Why would a benevolent god keep this sort of stuff from us?

 

[KCfromNC]

Christians have been told to mind their business by many wicked purveyors of all sorts of filth which are directly detrimental to the welfare of humans. Everytime, they are met with "mind your own business" and "stop preaching at us" and "you should be more tolerant." etc etc.

You seem to be confusing yourself with God. If your god were omnipotent as you claim, he'd be able to fix these problems without all the negative side effects that your meddling would cause. You do think your god is all-mighty, correct?

 

[Skavau]

Christians have been told to mind their business by many wicked purveyors of all sorts of filth which are directly detrimental to the welfare of humans.

That is because what you see as filth are actually harmless actions between consenting adults. No-one is suggesting that God should intervene against them but telling Christians to not. You are as usual arguing a strawman.

Everytime, they are met with "mind your own business" and "stop preaching at us" and "you should be more tolerant." etc etc.

Christians protest the murder of unborn children and are told to "mind their own business".

I am open to an argument that all abortion is always the murder of unborn children but also note that no decent argument has been advanced for that proposition.

I also consider important the right of women to eject their pregnancies (unwanted or otherwise) early if they wish to.

Christians protest sex trafficking and are told to "mind their own business" by those who profit from it.

Do they?

Since when? I've never heard anyone morally serious favour sex trafficking.

Christians protest the pornography industry and are told to "mind their own business".

Yes.

That is none of your business. Unless the former is happening, or there is abuse going on it is nor yours nor my business.

Christians protest against "alternate sexualities" and are told to "mind their own business".

Yes.

Who on earth do you think you are to insist that people aren't allowed or should not be allowed their sexual preferences? They also aren't "alternate sexualities". They simply are sexualities.

You are living in denial if you think people want cosmic censorship to curtail their "rights to do what they want".

Au contrare, this is exactly what you in the end of it all actually wants.

You're on record for saying so. You approve of people going to hell for what they think. There is no greater form of censorship.

You're mad at God for not being and thinking like you do.

I'm not mad at God full stop. I don't believe in God. I suspect the same of Wiccan Child.

I thank God He is nothing like you.

Too bad, because if I was (or Wiccan was) a God with the powers of God there would be a lot less suffering.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Should God surround every car on the highway with an invisible forcefield

That would be sufficient.

I assure you, people would not go for any of the above, you know, people wanting to be autonomous and all.

LOL! I think they would go for it in a heartbeat.

It sure would cut down on their insurance costs, would make driving perfectly safe, and wouldn't reduce anyone's autonomy at all.

When people speak of autonomy, they don't mean the right to plow into other people's automobiles and injure or kill someone, unless maybe you're thinking of the world of Mad Max.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Elioenai26]

That would be sufficient.



LOL! I think they would go for it in a heartbeat.

It sure would cut down on their insurance costs, would make driving perfectly safe, and wouldn't reduce anyone's autonomy at all.

When people speak of autonomy, they don't mean the right to plow into other people's automobiles and injure or kill someone, unless maybe you're thinking of the world of Mad Max.


eudaimonia,

Mark

If God was primarily concerned about eliminating automobile accidents, then there are numerous means He could utilize to prevent them. But God did not create the universe and humanity so He could eliminate automobile accidents. Sorry to break it to ya Mark.

This amounts to desiring divine intervention in every scenario where human suffering is even possible. This would not be feasible with God's plans and intentions in creating this world in the first place.

Sorry....but it looks like as long as humans are driving automobiles, there are gonna be humans suffering as a result of automobile related injuries.

If you don't like it, then talk to Ford or GM. Tell them to stop making automobiles.

 

[Skavau]

If God was primarily concerned about eliminating automobile accidents, then there are numerous means He could utilize to prevent them. But God did not create the universe and humanity so He could eliminate automobile accidents. Sorry to break it to ya Mark.

This amounts to desiring divine intervention in every scenario where human suffering is even possible. This would not be feasible with God's plans and intentions in creating this world in the first place.

God's "plans" and "intentions" seem to include (according to you) toying with us along the way and allowing suffering at random. I want no part in such caprice.

 

[quilbilly]

If by "cared for" you mean prevented from making decisions freely according to our desires, then yes, there would be nothing we could do to create famine if God prevented us from making decisions freely according to our desires. God would stop anybody from committing any act that would directly or indirectly lead to famine. But we would not be free moral agents. We would be robots that were stopped and started and stopped and started numerous times throughout the day. It would be akin to children playing red light green light on the schoolyard. One minute we are eating our dinner and the next, boom we are frozen by God in our places because we were about to throw our leftovers out in the trash. One minute we are about to go to the movies, then boom, we are frozen in our place because God decides the money we were going to spend on the movies should be sent to the starving children in Africa.

God could have created a world like that. A world where many of our thoughts and acts were never brought to fruition because they would directly or indirectly lead to human suffering. But would you really want to be a puppet on a string?



Not to overcome His power, but to spoil His creation. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. In the beginning everything God created was good. He can not do otherwise. One good thing He created was man and woman in His image with the ability to make choices. What we see in the world now is the result of the choices WE MAKE.

Maybe your parents raised you to blame others, or blame your genes, or nature, or God, or whatever else for your shortcomings and failings. I was raised to be accountable for my own actions. It is called responsibility and accountability. If I foul up, I am to blame, not someone else. If I do wrong, I must own up to it. If I complain about human suffering, and then turn a blind eye to it when I see it, I am a hypocrite.

The amount of complaining and crying that goes on here staggers me. Like you or anyone else is so concerned about people suffering. How is that the ratio of Christians to atheists is so staggeringly unbalanced when it comes to those in third world countries who are taking care of the needy?

All this talk about children suffering and who has done what to help or not. We are only human and anything we do will only be a bandaid. God however could have eliminated the vast majority of this problem by simply making procreation only happen when the parents wanted a child. Seems pretty easy peasy to me but I'm just a fallible human. I'm sure God could have stopped the suffering.

By the way nobody learns how to be a good human by suffering and dieing as a small child IMHO

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

By the way nobody learns how to be a good human by suffering and dieing as a small child IMHO

Yeah, but according to Christian apologist Bill Craig, dying children are god's way of bringing parents closer together.

 

[Davian]

If God was primarily concerned about eliminating automobile accidents, then there are numerous means He could utilize to prevent them. But God did not create the universe and humanity so He could eliminate automobile accidents. Sorry to break it to ya Mark.

This amounts to desiring divine intervention in every scenario where human suffering is even possible. This would not be feasible with God's plans and intentions in creating this world in the first place. <snip>

Or, this is your way of explaining away the lack of demonstrable response by your god in *any* scenario.

What would you say is the difference between a god that doesn't respond, and one that is not there?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

If God was primarily concerned about eliminating automobile accidents, then there are numerous means He could utilize to prevent them. But God did not create the universe and humanity so He could eliminate automobile accidents. Sorry to break it to ya Mark.

This amounts to desiring divine intervention in every scenario where human suffering is even possible. This would not be feasible with God's plans and intentions in creating this world in the first place.

Then you cannot assert that God is caring, merciful, etc. By virtue of being omnipotent and omniscient, God necessarily knows of a way to accomplish his goals and to avoid human suffering, unless his goals are for humans to suffer.

Let's assume that the god you believe in exists. Do you believe we should worship this being?

 

[Elioenai26]

All this talk about children suffering and who has done what to help or not. We are only human and anything we do will only be a bandaid. God however could have eliminated the vast majority of this problem by simply making procreation only happen when the parents wanted a child. Seems pretty easy peasy to me but I'm just a fallible human. I'm sure God could have stopped the suffering.

And it would be even easier for men and women to abstain from having sex if they do not want children. No sexual intercourse, no children.

Problem solved.

 

[Elioenai26]

Then you cannot assert that God is caring, merciful, etc.

Of course I can. God is caring, merciful, etc.

By virtue of being omnipotent and omniscient, God necessarily knows of a way to accomplish his goals and to avoid human suffering, unless his goals are for humans to suffer.

Or maybe God's goals are to bring about a state of affairs that is only possible in a world where humans are free moral agents.

Let's assume that the god you believe in exists. Do you believe we should worship this being?

You should worship Him only if you believe He is worthy of worship. Obviously you do not. So I do not expect you to. One cannot be forced to worship God anymore than one can be forced to love Him. You are free to reject Him. God loves you enough to let you have your freedom from Him, if that is what you desire.

But this freedom has a cost. It is evidenced in the world of suffering and sin in which we now live. So if you want to be free from the Highest Good, then you want suffering, sin, wickedness, evil, corruption, decay, disease, rape, and everything that is contrary to God.

Heaven or hell, righteousness or unrighteousness, self denial or selfishness, love or hate, charity or greed.

Each of us who are adults ultimately choose our destiny.