A World Where Everything is Provided For

[Received]

I take this from brightlight's fascinating thread, as well as Wiccan_Child's fascinating reply.

Imagine a world where everything -- absolutely everything -- is provided for. Every single moment of pain is nonexistent, all our wishes are provided for, no work is necessary, ad infinitum. Assume for a contradictory moment that we're still as we are now in terms of human nature, etc.

Would you want to live in this world? Why or why not?

 

[Living in the Light]

Wouldn't Heaven be such a world? If you are talking about the physical realm, I hardly think it is possible, but since this question is hypothetical, I'll give you an answer. No. Where would the room for growth come from? Mankind's inner "condition" would have to be perfect as it is with God.

If you want to take a theological viewpoint, isn't that what God had in mind before the fall of man? Only God's love ruled. He provided everything.

 

[Received]

I hope Heaven isn't like that. There will (or should) still be work, just not toil. Pain but not suffering. Stuff like that.

 

[Ken-1122]

I hope Heaven isn't like that. There will (or should) still be work, just not toil. Pain but not suffering. Stuff like that.

Where do you draw the line between work and toil; pain and suffering?

K

 

[jayem]

After a while (and a short while at that) it would be intolerably boring. For me, what makes life interesting is setting a goal and working to achieve it. And if I do, the satisfaction is that much greater if I was uncertain that I'd be successful. What fun would there be in knowing that my every desire will be provided? Isn't there a saying to the effect that the joy of living is in the journey, not the destination?

 

[keith99]

Where do you draw the line between work and toil; pain and suffering?

K

If it is Heaven right where I want to!

But you raise an interesting point. Just where is the line?

I happen to like to garden. I like preparing the soil, digging the hole, getting things ready.

But I sure do not like starting with rock hard soil full of rocks. Something easier to work would be better. But how much nicer? If really nice then just the pleasures of doing something are gone.

I'm sure I do not want sprinklers to break or trees to die. But other than that the line may change based on how I'm feeling at the time.

 

[The Engineer]

I take this from brightlight's fascinating thread, as well as Wiccan_Child's fascinating reply.

Imagine a world where everything -- absolutely everything -- is provided for. Every single moment of pain is nonexistent, all our wishes are provided for, no work is necessary, ad infinitum. Assume for a contradictory moment that we're still as we are now in terms of human nature, etc.

Would you want to live in this world? Why or why not?

Are you talking about pain in a broader sense, i.e. every negative feeling, or is it just physical pain?

If it's the former, I certainly would enjoy living in this world. If it's the latter, then it would likely be incredibly boring, and I'm not sure if I'd like to live there. Probably not, because, as many people here mentioned, achieving something isn't fun if it's too easy.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I take this from brightlight's fascinating thread, as well as Wiccan_Child's fascinating reply.

Imagine a world where everything -- absolutely everything -- is provided for. Every single moment of pain is nonexistent, all our wishes are provided for, no work is necessary, ad infinitum. Assume for a contradictory moment that we're still as we are now in terms of human nature, etc.

Would you want to live in this world?

Yes.

Why or why not?

Because there would be no suffering, nor toil. People could pursue the sciences, the arts, both, neither, or anything else to their hearts' content. Those who want to design soaring architecture, can build safely and effortlessly. Those who want to relax, can relax. Those who want kids can breed in perpetuity. Those who want to worship God can worship God. Those who don't, don't.

And best of all, no one kills each other over any of it! Sounds pretty good to me .

 

[yasic]

I would not want to live there but only because my current mind is not adjusted to life in such a world. Much like how a penguin will not enjoy life in a desert while a scorpion might thrive there. I currently get pleasure from overcoming obstacles and pain, a pleasure I could never find in this hypothetical world.

However were I born in this world and had a body and mind compatible with such a would I would love living there. Sure this "I" would not be the same one that I am today but on what basis could I claim that life there would not be good? Who says that the same things that give humans pleasure (overcoming pain, etc) must be the only way others can experience pleasure?

In short, if you could make a world where people can still feel achievement and joy and pleasure while at the same time ensuring no suffering exists, then of course such a world would be superior to our own, even if we are not compatible to it.

 

[RDKirk]

If you want to take a theological viewpoint, isn't that what God had in mind before the fall of man? Only God's love ruled. He provided everything.

Not that I can see.

And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. - Genesis 2:15

Sounds like a task to me. I have had the blessing in my life of having a career that I utterly adored. It was a bonus that they paid me. I expect Heaven to be the same way.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I take this from brightlight's fascinating thread, as well as Wiccan_Child's fascinating reply.

Imagine a world where everything -- absolutely everything -- is provided for. Every single moment of pain is nonexistent, all our wishes are provided for, no work is necessary, ad infinitum. Assume for a contradictory moment that we're still as we are now in terms of human nature, etc.

Would you want to live in this world? Why or why not?

I'm not sure what you mean by the last part. Are you suggesting that in this imaginary world we remain fundamentally the same as we are in this world? That our nature is unchanged? Because it seems to me that if so much has changed in the imaginary world it would be very unlikely that human nature would resemble anything like the human nature we are familiar with.

 

[quatona]

I take this from brightlight's fascinating thread, as well as Wiccan_Child's fascinating reply.

Imagine a world where everything -- absolutely everything -- is provided for. Every single moment of pain is nonexistent, all our wishes are provided for, no work is necessary, ad infinitum. Assume for a contradictory moment that we're still as we are now in terms of human nature, etc.

Would you want to live in this world? Why or why not?

I would suspect that in such a world where everything is provided for my contentedness with this world would also be provided for.
I´ll never get the concept that god created a problem so that there could be solution.

 

[quatona]

I hope Heaven isn't like that. There will (or should) still be work, just not toil. Pain but not suffering. Stuff like that.

So my question is: Why isn´t our earthly existence like that?

 

[Received]

So my question is: Why isn´t our earthly existence like that?

That's a bigger question than this thread can be derailed toward, klaustona. But I'll quote from Markel in the Brothers Karamazov:

"Life is paradise, and we are all in paradise, but we refuse to see it. If we would, we have heaven on earth the next day."

Something like that, I'd guess.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

That's a bigger question than this thread can be derailed toward, klaustona. But I'll quote from Markel in the Brothers Karamazov:

"Life is paradise, and we are all in paradise, but we refuse to see it. If we would, we have heaven on earth the next day."

Something like that, I'd guess.

That seems to be a bit of a slap in the face to those whose lives are filled with famine, disease, and war.

 

[Received]

That seems to be a bit of a slap in the face to those whose lives are filled with famine, disease, and war.

If you're blaming them for not "waking up" in the midst of crap like this, sure.

But I think it also explains the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s who bring about famine (as a result of political decisions, e.g.) and war. You know, they're not awake to paradise and too interested in instrumentalizing human beings.

I don't really know how to answer quatona's question precisely because, I don't know, it's really hard.

 

[Received]

I would say an advantage of this definition of heaven -- which, btw, is essentially what an exegetically correct interpretation of the Kingdom of God/Heaven means -- is all-inclusive, even to secular interpretations of "paradise" or happiness. It's about waking up, seeing things as they are, dropping your instrumentation of the environment and other people and allowing an intrinsic appreciation to bloom.

 

[Received]

I'm not sure what you mean by the last part. Are you suggesting that in this imaginary world we remain fundamentally the same as we are in this world? That our nature is unchanged? Because it seems to me that if so much has changed in the imaginary world it would be very unlikely that human nature would resemble anything like the human nature we are familiar with.

I don't really know what a world would be like where our nature is fundamentally different than what I know it it to be. Hence the "contradictory" part.

 

[quatona]

That's a bigger question than this thread can be derailed toward, klaustona.

Well, I´m wondering what the point of this thread is, anyway. Your hypothetical allows to tweak all parameters except for the most important one.

But I'll quote from Markel in the Brothers Karamazov:

"Life is paradise,

That doesn´t make much sense, sorry.
Life is paradise - compared to what?

and we are all in paradise, but we refuse to see it. If we would, we have heaven on earth the next day."
Something like that, I'd guess.

I´m not quite sure I understand the idea completely (i.e. I guess I´d need some context to this quote), but it seems to say something to the effect of: "There´s something about our inner make-up that keeps us from happiness (regardless what our external circumstances are)". (Correct me if I am wrong).

I do not necessarily disagree with this idea - it still doesn´t answer the question to the theist: Why did God create us with this condition?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes.


Because there would be no suffering, nor toil. People could pursue the sciences, the arts, both, neither, or anything else to their hearts' content. Those who want to design soaring architecture, can build safely and effortlessly. Those who want to relax, can relax. Those who want kids can breed in perpetuity. Those who want to worship God can worship God. Those who don't, don't.

And best of all, no one kills each other over any of it! Sounds pretty good to me .

What if my pursuit is to kill others? Suppose I like nothing more than causing pain and suffering?

If I earn my way into this fictional paradise, all the while denying my true nature, will I be rewarded with whatever I choose? If so, it seems like poor deal for those who must share this heaven with me.