Mar 22: they are at it again

[Zanting]

They reveal nothing to me about predicting a time for His return. Nor do they reveal a rapture before Gods prophecies are fulfilled. It does reveal to me that He indeed will come andHis people will be judged, as promised.

 

[Strong in Him]

Oh well. I'll just see you all on Saturday then.

In the meantime, I've got things to do.

 

[eclipsenow]

It was very interesting the way Marantha couldn't type these 7 words and 3 bullet points. I requested that he detail in a few paragraphs what they predicted: he refused. "Watch this INCREDIBLE FREE VIDEO..." There's 70 minutes of my life I'll never get back! I honestly couldn't bare going on any further, it was so bad.

i didn't want to watch a 2 hour video either, but it is worth the time. it is basically that the abomination occurs on the 22nd March 2013, and that starts a 3.5 year trib, which ends with the return of Christ in oct-sept 2016.
the video shows how it all works out in detail, according to an analysis of daniel.

But Daniel doesn't predict details about the end, instead it theologically describes it with symbolic numbers and language that the New Testament then takes up and explores further. We've got to stop getting biblical theology back to front. The New Testament unpacks the Old, not the other way around.

I'm not convinced there are any particular details about the future that we can know other than there will be persecuted and suffering Christians, there will be temptations to trust in wealth and worldly powers and philosophies, and there may even be wars and natural disasters now and then. In other words, life as we pretty much see it today. Until, suddenly, and unexpectedly, the Lord returns on Judgement Day. That's it!

 

[Juelrei]

The Bible talks about the believers meeting Christ in the air before the judgment, that's a very different thing to the rapture idea in most American Christian minds which is just as Big Fudge describes; a 19th C fable cooked up to further an artificial distinction of the people of God.

My point is that the rapture/believers meeting Christ in the air, comes before everything that happens in Revelation.

The word "rapture" comes from the words "caught up" in the Thessal. scripture I gave. The Greek is "harpazo", the Latin is "rapturo". Thus the word "rapture". It all depends on what language a person speaks. A Greek person would believe it the way I do.

Sorry but the 19th century idea is wrong. The whole thing relies on lack of study of the original languages. I have done my homework.

 

[zeke37]

My point is that the rapture/believers meeting Christ in the air, comes before everything that happens in Revelation.

hi....
I must disagree with most of what you say.

the rapture is at the last day,
after the righteous dead are brought from heaven by Christ, and raised here.
who told you differently?

John 6 and 11 are quite clear that the righteous are raised at the last day
1Thes4 (and 1Cor15) shows that last day raising,
and the rapture that happens after it.

The word "rapture" comes from the words "caught up" in the Thessal.

if you look at the Greek manuscripts,
the word is harpazo and means "seized"
there is no UP there at all....not written nor impied

regardless, the rapture happens at the last day,
after the righteous dead are brought from heaven
and raised here for life again..

scripture I gave. The Greek is "harpazo", the Latin is "rapturo". Thus the word "rapture". It all depends on what language a person speaks. A Greek person would believe it the way I do.

no they would not.
a Greek speaking person would say harpazo, not rapture.
and it does not mean going UP in Greek.

rapture / caught up...that is a mistranslation of "seized"
in the air, is a simple synonym for "spirit"
ie the change that happens at Christ's Coming as per 1Cor15

and clouds of heaven = Heb12:1, Rev1, Mat24...mass multitudes of believers.
the rapture happens after the end time test, not before it.
that would be redundant.

Sorry but the 19th century idea is wrong. The whole thing relies on lack of study of the original languages. I have done my homework.

lol..that's funny.
you get an "F".

harpazo = seized in Greek.

 

[Bethwhite]

You know what's interesting -

This year, and every 11th year, the Jewish calendar is funky. It's not really because of an extra month. I don't really know why.

Anyway, the last time that there was a year like this one, where the time frames line up perfectly (you know, the 1260, the 75, the 1335) was in 2002-2005. 5 days before Passover was March 22, 2002. Given what had just happened about 6 months prior (9-11), a lot of people thought it was the beginning of the end.

Now, here we are again. 5 days before Passover is March 19/20/21st and we are at one of those unique years where all of the time frames line up over the course of the next 3 1/2 years or so. (2013-2016)

Weird, huh?

I suppose the next one will be eleven years from now, but that's beyond when Daniel 11/12 shows the division between the 2000 years/1000 years is.


Here is the Jewish Calendar I've been using:
Jewish Holidays, 2001–2015 | Infoplease.com
I had to look up the dates for 2016 because they are not on the calendar.

Well, I looked up a Jewish calendar for 2024 and it's not like this year or 2002. So, this year and 2002 are unique. Interesting....

UPDATE: It happens again in 2021.

So, in 2002-2005, all the times lined up.
In 2013-2016, all the times line up. (11 years)
In 2021-2024, all the times line up. (8 years)
In 2032-2035, all the times line up. (11 years)

 

[Keachian]

My point is that the rapture/believers meeting Christ in the air, comes before everything that happens in Revelation.

I don't see any reason to consider that the case, there is a pastoral immediacy in the writing of Revelation that to me means that it symbolically describes the events of the 1st Century and not jumping away off into the far off future.

 

[Steve Petersen]

You know what's interesting -

This year, and every 11th year, the Jewish calendar is funky. It's not really because of an extra month. I don't really know why.

Anyway, the last time that there was a year like this one, where the time frames line up perfectly (you know, the 1260, the 75, the 1335) was in 2002-2005. 5 days before Passover was March 22, 2002. Given what had just happened about 6 months prior (9-11), a lot of people thought it was the beginning of the end.

Now, here we are again. 5 days before Passover is March 19/20/21st and we are at one of those unique years where all of the time frames line up over the course of the next 3 1/2 years or so. (2013-2016)

Weird, huh?

I suppose the next one will be eleven years from now, but that's beyond when Daniel 11/12 shows the division between the 2000 years/1000 years is.


Here is the Jewish Calendar I've been using:
Jewish Holidays, 2001–2015 | Infoplease.com
I had to look up the dates for 2016 because they are not on the calendar.

Well, I looked up a Jewish calendar for 2024 and it's not like this year or 2002. So, this year and 2002 are unique. Interesting....

UPDATE: It happens again in 2021.

So, in 2002-2005, all the times lined up.
In 2013-2016, all the times line up. (11 years)
In 2021-2024, all the times line up. (8 years)
In 2032-2035, all the times line up. (11 years)

The Jewish calendar is what is called a 'bound lunar-solar' calendar. Jewish months are determined by the occurence of the New Moon. A lunar year is about 354 days long, a solar year is about 365 days long. This results in an 11 day shift every year.

Since Passover must occur in the spring, there is a need to add a leap month about every THREE years (3x11 is approximately 1 month.) The extra leap month is added BEFORE the month that Passover occurs. That extra month is called Adar II.

The number of days between the Passover (in the Spring) and Rosh Ha Shana (in the Fall) is always the same.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

you look at the Greek manuscripts,
the word is harpazo and means "seized"
there is no UP there at all....not written nor impied

chuck missler tries to make out that the 'falling away' means departure, and the word is apostasia, apostacy. i wonder if chuck missler really believes that.

 

[peterlindner]

The Jewish calendar is what is called a 'bound lunar-solar' calendar. Jewish months are determined by the occurence of the New Moon. A lunar year is about 354 days long, a solar year is about 365 days long. This results in an 11 day shift every year.

Since Passover must occur in the spring, there is a need to add a leap month about every THREE years (3x11 is approximately 1 month.) The extra leap month is added BEFORE the month that Passover occurs. That extra month is called Adar II.

The number of days between the Passover (in the Spring) and Rosh Ha Shana (in the Fall) is always the same.

What about Passover for the Kiwis and Ozzies? Their Spring is in "our" fall. Since the temple is switching from a physical location in a building to within Us; that God's feasts really are the same with a seasonal shift. What I mean is that Tabernacles is really Passover and vice versa in the age of the "new" dwelling within us temple.

The other interesting consideration is the shift of feasts (Pesach Sheni) with the late Passover (Moses, Hezekiah). If Passover is late, shouldn't the feasts that are based on Passover be late also? The answer is a hidden treasure.

 

[Juelrei]

I don't see any reason to consider that the case, there is a pastoral immediacy in the writing of Revelation that to me means that it symbolically describes the events of the 1st Century and not jumping away off into the far off future.

And yet that immediacy does not influence you concerning when the rapture will happen. Like before the Revelation tribulation begins.

Did I say anything to indicate that events would be "in some far off future"?
No. They could begin this autumn. That is my immediacy. An autumn event coincides with a Jewish moed. (Did I already mention this in this thread?)
The Passover, and Pentecost have been fulfilled. The next upcoming event is Rosh HaShannah. It involves trumpet blowing, and resurrection of the dead. What do you know, the Christian pre-trib rapture has those.

What of the immediacy for the apostles of the new testament epistles? They saw the destruction of the temple in 70AD and the scattering of the Jews and Christians.

No events occurred as written in Revelation. We have documents of the early church fathers from the 1st century on through to the Catholic church, then the protestant church. Up to now.

Where are those immediacy events as recorded in Revelation? Since it's been 2000 years, we should have been in the Millennium, and gone on into eternity by now.

Something I notice about you right off. You don't use scripture to support what you say. Even Harold Camping in all his erroneous misinterpretations and outrageous mathematical gymnastics at least attempted to cite Bible verses.

Since you don't, that disqualifies you from having any valid thing to say. Any further exchange is pointless.

 

[Keachian]

And yet that immediacy does not influence you concerning when the rapture will happen. Like before the Revelation tribulation begins.

Tribulation has been happening since Christ's ascension as he said it would in Matt 24-25

Did I say anything to indicate that events would be "in some far off future"?

The book of Revelation is written to a specific group of people, it is written to the Church in the tribulation leading up to the destruction of the Temple.

The Passover, and Pentecost have been fulfilled. The next upcoming event is Rosh HaShannah.

Already fulfilled, read the book of Hebrews.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

I prophesy..that tomorrow people will still be in here arguing over this and that including myself. Still trapped in the CONFUSION BABLYON has made a mess for us all. And only JESUS can set us FREE from the body of THIS DEATH.
Isa_13:1 The burden of Babylon{confusion}, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 

[Keachian]

I prophesy..that tomorrow people will still be in here arguing over this and that including myself. Still trapped in the CONFUSION BABLYON has made a mess for us all. And only JESUS can set us FREE from the body of THIS DEATH.
Isa_13:1 The burden of Babylon{confusion}, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Collapsing contexts

Deeperstudy Shallows: Mistakes Bible Teachers Make

 

[Bethwhite]

You know what's interesting -

This year, and every 11th year, the Jewish calendar is funky. It's not really because of an extra month. I don't really know why.

Anyway, the last time that there was a year like this one, where the time frames line up perfectly (you know, the 1260, the 75, the 1335) was in 2002-2005. 5 days before Passover was March 22, 2002. Given what had just happened about 6 months prior (9-11), a lot of people thought it was the beginning of the end.

Now, here we are again. 5 days before Passover is March 19/20/21st and we are at one of those unique years where all of the time frames line up over the course of the next 3 1/2 years or so. (2013-2016)

Weird, huh?

I suppose the next one will be eleven years from now, but that's beyond when Daniel 11/12 shows the division between the 2000 years/1000 years is.


Here is the Jewish Calendar I've been using:
Jewish Holidays, 2001–2015 | Infoplease.com
I had to look up the dates for 2016 because they are not on the calendar.

Well, I looked up a Jewish calendar for 2024 and it's not like this year or 2002. So, this year and 2002 are unique. Interesting....

UPDATE: It happens again in 2021.

So, in 2002-2005, all the times lined up.
In 2013-2016, all the times line up. (11 years)
In 2021-2024, all the times line up. (8 years)
In 2032-2035, all the times line up. (11 years)

The Jewish calendar is what is called a 'bound lunar-solar' calendar. Jewish months are determined by the occurence of the New Moon. A lunar year is about 354 days long, a solar year is about 365 days long. This results in an 11 day shift every year.

Since Passover must occur in the spring, there is a need to add a leap month about every THREE years (3x11 is approximately 1 month.) The extra leap month is added BEFORE the month that Passover occurs. That extra month is called Adar II.

The number of days between the Passover (in the Spring) and Rosh Ha Shana (in the Fall) is always the same.

Yes, I know. But this particular alignment of the times given in scripture (1335 = 1260 & 75) with the Jewish calendar don't happen every three years.

There is something unique about 2002-2005, 2013-2016, 2021-2024, and 2032-2035. I haven't looked beyond that to see it.

 

[Steve Petersen]

What about Passover for the Kiwis and Ozzies? Their Spring is in "our" fall. Since the temple is switching from a physical location in a building to within Us; that God's feasts really are the same with a seasonal shift. What I mean is that Tabernacles is really Passover and vice versa in the age of the "new" dwelling within us temple.

The other interesting consideration is the shift of feasts (Pesach Sheni) with the late Passover (Moses, Hezekiah). If Passover is late, shouldn't the feasts that are based on Passover be late also? The answer is a hidden treasure.

Pesach Sheni (Second Passover) falls one month after the normal Passover. This is for those who could not celebrate at the normal time. I think this is what you referred to as the 'late' Passover. Some folks host or attend a second Passover Seder on the second Day of Passover (evening that begins the 16th of Nisan.)

As for southern latitudes, Spring and Fall in the Torah are referenced to the Northern Hemisphere in the Bible. You would still celebrate on the Jewish Passover, but it would be fall for you. C'est la vie.

 

[Bethwhite]

Pesach Sheni (Second Passover) falls one month after the normal Passover. This is for those who could not celebrate at the normal time. I think this is what you referred to as the 'late' Passover. Some folks host or attend a second Passover Seder on the second Day of Passover (evening that begins the 16th of Nisan.)

As for southern latitudes, Spring and Fall in the Torah are referenced to the Northern Hemisphere in the Bible. You would still celebrate on the Jewish Passover, but it would be fall for you. C'est la vie.

Wait, no...it's the following month, not the 2nd day of Passover.

Numbers 9: 9 The Lord spoke to Moses in the Desert of Sinai in the first month of the second year after they came out of Egypt. He said, 2 “Have the Israelites celebrate the Passover at the appointed time. 3 Celebrate it at the appointed time, at twilight on the fourteenth day of this month, in accordance with all its rules and regulations.”
4 So Moses told the Israelites to celebrate the Passover, 5 and they did so in the Desert of Sinai at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. The Israelites did everything just as the Lord commanded Moses.
6 But some of them could not celebrate the Passover on that day because they were ceremonially unclean on account of a dead body. So they came to Moses and Aaron that same day 7 and said to Moses, “We have become unclean because of a dead body, but why should we be kept from presenting the Lord’s offering with the other Israelites at the appointed time?”
8 Moses answered them, “Wait until I find out what the Lord commands concerning you.”
9 Then the Lord said to Moses, 10 “Tell the Israelites: ‘When any of you or your descendants are unclean because of a dead body or are away on a journey, they are still to celebrate the Lord’s Passover, 11 but they are to do it on the fourteenth day of the second month at twilight. They are to eat the lamb, together with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. 12 They must not leave any of it till morning or break any of its bones. When they celebrate the Passover, they must follow all the regulations. 13 But if anyone who is ceremonially clean and not on a journey fails to celebrate the Passover, they must be cut off from their people for not presenting the Lord’s offering at the appointed time. They will bear the consequences of their sin.

 

[peterlindner]

Pesach Sheni (Second Passover) falls one month after the normal Passover. This is for those who could not celebrate at the normal time. I think this is what you referred to as the 'late' Passover. Some folks host or attend a second Passover Seder on the second Day of Passover (evening that begins the 16th of Nisan.)

As for southern latitudes, Spring and Fall in the Torah are referenced to the Northern Hemisphere in the Bible. You would still celebrate on the Jewish Passover, but it would be fall for you. C'est la vie.

Yes. The Jews that missed the messiah when he was standing right in front of them would have Passover only be for the northern hemisphere. After the resurrection of Lazarus there are few days that go by then it is Passover. Lazarus was certainly effected by death. This Passover was Pesach Sheni or the Iyyar 14 Passover. I believe that Lazarus was resurrected on resurrection day (nisan 16) of the first Passover.

 

[Bethwhite]

StevePeterson,

This is what I was talking about earlier - what is unusual about the years (including this one) - that I was talking about before.

It appears that Passover should be in April, not March. And Day 1 of the 1335 days during that time period is 30 days later than usual.

 

[Bethwhite]

Yes. The Jews that missed the messiah when he was standing right in front of them would have Passover only be for the northern hemisphere. After the resurrection of Lazarus there are few days that go by then it is Passover. Lazarus was certainly effected by death. This Passover was Pesach Sheni or the Iyyar 14 Passover. I believe that Lazarus was resurrected on resurrection day (nisan 16) of the first Passover.

That can't be right because Jesus (the Passover Lamb) raised him.

Lazarus would have been raised in the week (or so) prior to Passover.

John 12.Six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus lived, whom Jesus had raised from the dead.2 Here a dinner was given in Jesus’ honor. Martha served, while Lazarus was among those reclining at the table with him. 3 Then Mary took about a pintof pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus’ feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. 4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.
7 “Leave her alone,” Jesus replied. “It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. 8 You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me.”
9 Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was there and came, not only because of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead.10 So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as well, 11 for on account of him many of the Jews were going over to Jesus and believing in him.
Jesus Comes to Jerusalem as King

12 The next day the great crowd that had come for the festival heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. 13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,
“Hosanna!”

“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”

“Blessed is the king of Israel!”