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Why do people try to obey the law when it's not possible

Daniel Gregg

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Not if one reads Jer 31:31-33.

bugkiller
...only if they read it according to your tradition, which makes your reasoning circular.

31 Behold, the days come, utters Yăhwēh, that I will cut with the house of Yişra̱’e̱l, and with the house of Yǝhuḋa̱h the covenant anew:†
32 Not according to the covenant (that I cut with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim) when my covenant they broke, so that I acted as Master against them, utters Yăhwēh.†
33 Because this is the covenant that I cut with the house of Yişra̱’e̱l: After those days, utters Yăhwēh: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their Almĭghty, and they shall be my people:†
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Yăhwēh; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says Yăhwēh: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.†


►31:31 וְכָרַתִּי … בְּרִית חֲדָשָׁה: And I cuteth … the covenant anew. A new moon is the same as the old moon, but it is a new instance of the old moon in time. The Piel verb ɦ̣a̱ḋash means renew, repair. The Piel Stem adds the sense of make to be to a verb conveying emphasis, intensivity, or stativeness. Thus make to be anew is the sense by which Hebrew conveys the concept of new. New in Hebrew is something made to be anew. While it is possible that this indicates something brand new, it may not mean totally brand new. It may mean only newness in time. The promise in Deu. 30:6 shows that only newness in time is meant, as does vs. 33, which shows that the nature of the commandments has not changed.

● Sometimes one must use an English participle to translate a Hebrew adjective; this has to do with the fact that English does not conform to Hebrew thought pattern exactly, thus we may translate בְּרִית חֲדָשָׁה = a renewed covenant; however I prefer the adverb anew to express the same idea

● Walter C. Kaiser, Jr. points out in Toward Rediscovering The Old Testament that a renewed covenant was the proper idea in Jeremiah. His Hebrew expertise ranks next to Franz Delitzsch; also the Rabbis regard Jer. 31, and John Calvin.

&#9679; The term &#1495;&#1465;&#1491;&#1462;&#1513;&#1473; < *&#1495;&#1465;&#1491;&#1461;&#1513;&#1473; = renewing, renewal. Hence &#1489;&#1468;&#1463;&#1495;&#1465;&#1491;&#1462;&#1513;&#1473; = in the renewing [of the moon]; &#1495;&#1464;&#1491;&#1464;&#1513;&#1473; = fresh, as new, anew, renewed; cf. iiCor3v6.

&#9679; The principle of lexical conservatism requires the adjective and the noun to have the same lexical range as the verb or verb root, which means “renew, repair, restore, to make anew, to make to be anew, to make new”; this is true of Semitic languages above all, and the principle should be rigorously held to especially where the ancient dialect is not available as a living language.

&#9679; The critics know that and therefore make their entire understanding depend on what they call contextual analysis. The problem is that their theological context is corrupt to begin with, and the other proof texts they based their theological context on are also corrupted. Their consensus reasoning, therefore, is circular: “Ideological Momentum: The impetus of collective opinion; the tendency for supportive results to emerge and grow artificially from prior consensus or authority; also called “the snowball effect”; a synthetic trend in which we impute meaning in things just because we want meaning to be there for whatever deeply help reason [i.e. lawlessness], and then take that meaning forward even when it has been objectively falsified” (pg. x, Hilton Ratcliffe, The Static Universe). Messiah called this the blind leading the blind.[]
&#9658;31:32 &#1500;&#1465;&#1488; &#1499;&#1463;&#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1512;&#1460;&#1497;&#1514; &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512; &#1499;&#1468;&#1464;&#1512;&#1463;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514;&#1470;&#1488;&#1458;&#1489;&#1493;&#1465;&#1514;&#1464;&#1501;: not according to the covenant which I cut with their fathers; according to the covenant there are curses for disobedience or blessings for obedience. The terms of the renewed covenant are not different, but the outcome is different; the first time around the covenant was applied according to the curses, but the second time it will be according to the blessings. Y&#259;hw&#275;h will not have to deal with Yis&#807;ra&#817;’e&#817;l according to the curses, but according to the blessings, so in this sense the renewed covenant is not according to the first application of the covenant. Yis&#807;ra&#817;’e&#817;l gets a second chance • &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512;&#1470;&#1492;&#1461;&#1502;&#1468;&#1464;&#1492; &#1492;&#1461;&#1508;&#1461;&#1512;&#1493;&#1468; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514;&#1470;&#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1512;&#1460;&#1497;&#1514;&#1460;&#1497;; &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512; connects to &#1499;&#1463; in in the preceding text to be taken in the sense of &#1499;&#1468;&#1463;&#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512;: when, according to when • &#1493;&#1456;&#1488;&#1464;&#1504;&#1465;&#1499;&#1460;&#1497; &#1489;&#1468;&#1464;&#1506;&#1463;&#1500;&#1456;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; &#1489;&#1464;&#1501;. The verb &#1489;&#1468;&#1464;&#1506;&#1463;&#1500;&#1456;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; means, I lordeth over them or I acted the Master with them. The sense is that of a Master having to discipline his subjects for breaking the covenant. The translation married misses the sense, and has causes a needless conflict with the LXX &#9679; Not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers…when my covenant they broke, and I acted as Master against them, utters Y&#259;hw&#275;h: to make the sentence structure clearer, drop out the (…) material telling when and where he had to judge Israel in the wilderness &#9679; &#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1497;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501; &#1492;&#1462;&#1495;&#1457;&#1494;&#1460;&#1497;&#1511;&#1460;&#1497; &#1489;&#1456;&#1497;&#1464;&#1491;&#1464;&#1501; &#1500;&#1456;&#1492;&#1493;&#1465;&#1510;&#1460;&#1497;&#1488;&#1464;&#1501; &#1502;&#1461;&#1488;&#1462;&#1512;&#1462;&#1509; &#1502;&#1460;&#1510;&#1456;&#1512;&#1464;&#1497;&#1460;&#1501;: in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim; the Hebrew &#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1497;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501; “in the day” means “in the time period”; cf. Gen2v4; at the beginning of the “day” he brought them out of Egypt, and at the end of the same “day” he made the covenant. For day is taken according to the Hebrew idiom as a “period of time”; cf. Gen. 30:33; also the “day of Y&#259;hw&#275;h” is a “period of time.”
&#9658;31:33a Because this is the covenant I cut: &#1499;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; &#1494;&#1465;&#1488;&#1514; &#1492;&#1463;&#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1512;&#1460;&#1497;&#1514; &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512; &#1488;&#1462;&#1499;&#1456;&#1512;&#1465;&#1514; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514;&#1470;&#1489;&#1468;&#1461;&#1497;&#1514; &#1497;&#1460;&#1513;&#1474;&#1456;&#1512;&#1464;&#1488;&#1461;&#1500;. The original covenant included circumcision of the heart, Deu30v6. It promises that those faithful would have their hearts circumcised and the hearts of their children. This is the covenant I cut are words pointing back to the one covenant. After those days begins a new clause and refers to the implementation of the original covenant promise in the end of days (Deu30)

&#9679; The Hebrew imperfect, &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512; &#1488;&#1462;&#1499;&#1456;&#1512;&#1465;&#1514;, which I cut. Most Hebrew readers train themselves to insert tense into their reading, however linguist Galia Hatav (Ph.D. Tel Aviv U) has shown this to be an errant way of reading Hebrew in her book The Semantics of Aspect and Modality; Evidence from English and Biblical Hebrew. This is a high level book, but it is a must reading if anyone wants to understand the aspect and modality of Biblical Hebrew. Which I cut refers to the original covenant, for the promise in 31:33 is exactly the promise in the Torah at Deu30v6.
&#9658;31:33b The promise to inscribe the law on the heart is the same concept and the same promise expressed in Deu30v6: And Y&#259;hw&#275;h your Alm&#301;ghty will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love Y&#259;hw&#275;h your Alm&#301;ghty with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live. There is no better promise than this; if we are faithful to Messiah then He will perform it. Deu30v11-14 is quoted by Paul in Romans 10: the word is nigh unto you, in your mouth, and in your heart, that you may do it. This is the word of faithfulness. By Messiah's faithfulness the hearts of the faithful will be circumcised.
&#9658;31:34 Know Y&#259;hw&#275;h: &#1491;&#1468;&#1506;&#1493;&#1468; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514;&#1470;&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;. We know him if we keep his commandments. See iJoh2v3. But we don't know him perfectly yet because we are not perfected yet. The promise of the renewed covenant is not fulfilled to completion until Messiah returns to set up the kingdom for the ages to come &#9679; I will forgive their iniquity: &#1488;&#1462;&#1505;&#1456;&#1500;&#1463;&#1495; &#1500;&#1463;&#1506;&#1458;&#1493;&#1465;&#1504;&#1464;&#1501;; the context places this in the age to come, see vs. 34; surely at present iniquity is forgiven on an individual basis for those trustingly faithful to Messiah, however in this eschatological context the phrase is referring to the corporate iniquity of all the house of Israel. This is parallel to Zec3v10, and I will remove the iniquity of that land on one day: &#1493;&#1468;&#1502;&#1463;&#1513;&#1473;&#1456;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514;&#1470;&#1506;&#1458;&#1493;&#1465;&#1503; &#1492;&#1464;&#1488;&#1464;&#1512;&#1462;&#1509;&#1470;&#1492;&#1463;&#1492;&#1460;&#1497;&#1488; &#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1497;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501; &#1488;&#1462;&#1495;&#1464;&#1491;. This is to be a one day event on a future Yom Kippur yet to be fulfilled.



 
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disciple1

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Maybe we all should get more faith as it tells you how to here.
Romans chapter 10 verse 17 consequently faith comes from hearing the message and the message is heard in the word of Christ.
John chapter 8 verse 31,32 To the Jews who believed him Jesus said if you hold to my teaching you are really my disciples and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
Jesus never said to learn more than one language he said to have faith as the verses above say.
And no one obeys the law anyway it's not possible.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
 
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annier

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Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore since they did not consider it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God he gave them over to a depraved mind to do what ought not to be done.
I don't know why you want to preach obedience to the law when you don't obey it anyway.
This is true, they do not keep the law which Paul is speaking of. Nor did the Gentiles which Paul evangelized. He never took one uncircumcised into the temple area reserved for Jews. He never allowed Gentiles to eat of the sacrifice of the passover lamb.
I believe we keep the law of faith, just like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The faith that God himself gave unto us, and revealed to us in Christ Jesus.
 
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disciple1

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So Moses ministry brought death and Christs ministry brought righteousness.
2 Corinthians chapter 3 verses 6-9
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant not of the letter but of the spirit; for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
Colossians chapter 2 verses 2-5
My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how orderly you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.
 
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bugkiller

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...only if they read it according to your tradition, which makes your reasoning circular.

31 Behold, the days come, utters Y&#259;hw&#275;h, that I will cut with the house of Yis&#807;ra&#817;&#8217;e&#817;l, and with the house of Y&#477;hud&#775;a&#817;h the covenant anew:&#8224;
32 Not according to the covenant (that I cut with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim) when my covenant they broke, so that I acted as Master against them, utters Y&#259;hw&#275;h.&#8224;
33 Because this is the covenant that I cut with the house of Yis&#807;ra&#817;&#8217;e&#817;l: After those days, utters Y&#259;hw&#275;h: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their Alm&#301;ghty, and they shall be my people:&#8224;
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Y&#259;hw&#275;h; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says Y&#259;hw&#275;h: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.&#8224;


&#9658;31:31 &#1493;&#1456;&#1499;&#1464;&#1512;&#1463;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; &#8230; &#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1512;&#1460;&#1497;&#1514; &#1495;&#1458;&#1491;&#1464;&#1513;&#1473;&#1464;&#1492;: And I cuteth &#8230; the covenant anew. A new moon is the same as the old moon, but it is a new instance of the old moon in time. The Piel verb &#614;&#803;a&#817;d&#775;ash means renew, repair. The Piel Stem adds the sense of make to be to a verb conveying emphasis, intensivity, or stativeness. Thus make to be anew is the sense by which Hebrew conveys the concept of new. New in Hebrew is something made to be anew. While it is possible that this indicates something brand new, it may not mean totally brand new. It may mean only newness in time. The promise in Deu. 30:6 shows that only newness in time is meant, as does vs. 33, which shows that the nature of the commandments has not changed.

&#9679; Sometimes one must use an English participle to translate a Hebrew adjective; this has to do with the fact that English does not conform to Hebrew thought pattern exactly, thus we may translate &#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1512;&#1460;&#1497;&#1514; &#1495;&#1458;&#1491;&#1464;&#1513;&#1473;&#1464;&#1492; = a renewed covenant; however I prefer the adverb anew to express the same idea

&#9679; Walter C. Kaiser, Jr. points out in Toward Rediscovering The Old Testament that a renewed covenant was the proper idea in Jeremiah. His Hebrew expertise ranks next to Franz Delitzsch; also the Rabbis regard Jer. 31, and John Calvin.

&#9679; The term &#1495;&#1465;&#1491;&#1462;&#1513;&#1473; < *&#1495;&#1465;&#1491;&#1461;&#1513;&#1473; = renewing, renewal. Hence &#1489;&#1468;&#1463;&#1495;&#1465;&#1491;&#1462;&#1513;&#1473; = in the renewing [of the moon]; &#1495;&#1464;&#1491;&#1464;&#1513;&#1473; = fresh, as new, anew, renewed; cf. iiCor3v6.

&#9679; The principle of lexical conservatism requires the adjective and the noun to have the same lexical range as the verb or verb root, which means &#8220;renew, repair, restore, to make anew, to make to be anew, to make new&#8221;; this is true of Semitic languages above all, and the principle should be rigorously held to especially where the ancient dialect is not available as a living language.

&#9679; The critics know that and therefore make their entire understanding depend on what they call contextual analysis. The problem is that their theological context is corrupt to begin with, and the other proof texts they based their theological context on are also corrupted. Their consensus reasoning, therefore, is circular: &#8220;Ideological Momentum: The impetus of collective opinion; the tendency for supportive results to emerge and grow artificially from prior consensus or authority; also called &#8220;the snowball effect&#8221;; a synthetic trend in which we impute meaning in things just because we want meaning to be there for whatever deeply help reason [i.e. lawlessness], and then take that meaning forward even when it has been objectively falsified&#8221; (pg. x, Hilton Ratcliffe, The Static Universe). Messiah called this the blind leading the blind.[]
&#9658;31:32 &#1500;&#1465;&#1488; &#1499;&#1463;&#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1512;&#1460;&#1497;&#1514; &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512; &#1499;&#1468;&#1464;&#1512;&#1463;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514;&#1470;&#1488;&#1458;&#1489;&#1493;&#1465;&#1514;&#1464;&#1501;: not according to the covenant which I cut with their fathers; according to the covenant there are curses for disobedience or blessings for obedience. The terms of the renewed covenant are not different, but the outcome is different; the first time around the covenant was applied according to the curses, but the second time it will be according to the blessings. Y&#259;hw&#275;h will not have to deal with Yis&#807;ra&#817;&#8217;e&#817;l according to the curses, but according to the blessings, so in this sense the renewed covenant is not according to the first application of the covenant. Yis&#807;ra&#817;&#8217;e&#817;l gets a second chance &#8226; &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512;&#1470;&#1492;&#1461;&#1502;&#1468;&#1464;&#1492; &#1492;&#1461;&#1508;&#1461;&#1512;&#1493;&#1468; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514;&#1470;&#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1512;&#1460;&#1497;&#1514;&#1460;&#1497;; &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512; connects to &#1499;&#1463; in in the preceding text to be taken in the sense of &#1499;&#1468;&#1463;&#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512;: when, according to when &#8226; &#1493;&#1456;&#1488;&#1464;&#1504;&#1465;&#1499;&#1460;&#1497; &#1489;&#1468;&#1464;&#1506;&#1463;&#1500;&#1456;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; &#1489;&#1464;&#1501;. The verb &#1489;&#1468;&#1464;&#1506;&#1463;&#1500;&#1456;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; means, I lordeth over them or I acted the Master with them. The sense is that of a Master having to discipline his subjects for breaking the covenant. The translation married misses the sense, and has causes a needless conflict with the LXX &#9679; Not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers&#8230;when my covenant they broke, and I acted as Master against them, utters Y&#259;hw&#275;h: to make the sentence structure clearer, drop out the (&#8230;) material telling when and where he had to judge Israel in the wilderness &#9679; &#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1497;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501; &#1492;&#1462;&#1495;&#1457;&#1494;&#1460;&#1497;&#1511;&#1460;&#1497; &#1489;&#1456;&#1497;&#1464;&#1491;&#1464;&#1501; &#1500;&#1456;&#1492;&#1493;&#1465;&#1510;&#1460;&#1497;&#1488;&#1464;&#1501; &#1502;&#1461;&#1488;&#1462;&#1512;&#1462;&#1509; &#1502;&#1460;&#1510;&#1456;&#1512;&#1464;&#1497;&#1460;&#1501;: in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim; the Hebrew &#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1497;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501; &#8220;in the day&#8221; means &#8220;in the time period&#8221;; cf. Gen2v4; at the beginning of the &#8220;day&#8221; he brought them out of Egypt, and at the end of the same &#8220;day&#8221; he made the covenant. For day is taken according to the Hebrew idiom as a &#8220;period of time&#8221;; cf. Gen. 30:33; also the &#8220;day of Y&#259;hw&#275;h&#8221; is a &#8220;period of time.&#8221;
&#9658;31:33a Because this is the covenant I cut: &#1499;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; &#1494;&#1465;&#1488;&#1514; &#1492;&#1463;&#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1512;&#1460;&#1497;&#1514; &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512; &#1488;&#1462;&#1499;&#1456;&#1512;&#1465;&#1514; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514;&#1470;&#1489;&#1468;&#1461;&#1497;&#1514; &#1497;&#1460;&#1513;&#1474;&#1456;&#1512;&#1464;&#1488;&#1461;&#1500;. The original covenant included circumcision of the heart, Deu30v6. It promises that those faithful would have their hearts circumcised and the hearts of their children. This is the covenant I cut are words pointing back to the one covenant. After those days begins a new clause and refers to the implementation of the original covenant promise in the end of days (Deu30)

&#9679; The Hebrew imperfect, &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512; &#1488;&#1462;&#1499;&#1456;&#1512;&#1465;&#1514;, which I cut. Most Hebrew readers train themselves to insert tense into their reading, however linguist Galia Hatav (Ph.D. Tel Aviv U) has shown this to be an errant way of reading Hebrew in her book The Semantics of Aspect and Modality; Evidence from English and Biblical Hebrew. This is a high level book, but it is a must reading if anyone wants to understand the aspect and modality of Biblical Hebrew. Which I cut refers to the original covenant, for the promise in 31:33 is exactly the promise in the Torah at Deu30v6.
&#9658;31:33b The promise to inscribe the law on the heart is the same concept and the same promise expressed in Deu30v6: And Y&#259;hw&#275;h your Alm&#301;ghty will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love Y&#259;hw&#275;h your Alm&#301;ghty with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live. There is no better promise than this; if we are faithful to Messiah then He will perform it. Deu30v11-14 is quoted by Paul in Romans 10: the word is nigh unto you, in your mouth, and in your heart, that you may do it. This is the word of faithfulness. By Messiah's faithfulness the hearts of the faithful will be circumcised.
&#9658;31:34 Know Y&#259;hw&#275;h: &#1491;&#1468;&#1506;&#1493;&#1468; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514;&#1470;&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;. We know him if we keep his commandments. See iJoh2v3. But we don't know him perfectly yet because we are not perfected yet. The promise of the renewed covenant is not fulfilled to completion until Messiah returns to set up the kingdom for the ages to come &#9679; I will forgive their iniquity: &#1488;&#1462;&#1505;&#1456;&#1500;&#1463;&#1495; &#1500;&#1463;&#1506;&#1458;&#1493;&#1465;&#1504;&#1464;&#1501;; the context places this in the age to come, see vs. 34; surely at present iniquity is forgiven on an individual basis for those trustingly faithful to Messiah, however in this eschatological context the phrase is referring to the corporate iniquity of all the house of Israel. This is parallel to Zec3v10, and I will remove the iniquity of that land on one day: &#1493;&#1468;&#1502;&#1463;&#1513;&#1473;&#1456;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514;&#1470;&#1506;&#1458;&#1493;&#1465;&#1503; &#1492;&#1464;&#1488;&#1464;&#1512;&#1462;&#1509;&#1470;&#1492;&#1463;&#1492;&#1460;&#1497;&#1488; &#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1497;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501; &#1488;&#1462;&#1495;&#1464;&#1491;. This is to be a one day event on a future Yom Kippur yet to be fulfilled.
I must beg your forgivness. I missed this post somehow. So I owe a thanks to whoever brought this thread back to life.

I must ask what are your sources the above comments are based on. My sources disagree very much. I am not Jewish and do not read Hebrew. I also am no language expert and do not read Greek either.

You have used words I have never seen from the verses in any source. I do have a hard copy interlinear.

bugkiller
 
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annier

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I see where you quoted Galatians 5 -

It is for freedom Christ set us free...

So my question to you is:

Now that the law has led us to Christ, are we now free to break the law?

In your opinion, would that be yes or no?


JLB
No we are not. That is why Gentiles never ate a Jewish passover. Why Gentiles never went into the temple courts made for Jews.
 
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disciple1

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You love God by loving your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
 
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annier

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1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10 If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point there guilty of breaking all of it.
Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.:clap:
I think there are various reasons for different groups throughout Church History for keeping some of Moses law. But,,,, historically, as in the the Gospels I believe Rabbinic ideas of the covenants, was a major reason for "Judaization". Sadly, I think today, there are those which have taken up to study these ideas, and are applying them.
Mainly it is the way they view the covenants in the old testament scriptures. How each of these covenants "build" one upon another. Many today follow along the lines of these Rabbinic ideas. Such sentiments are expressed in the "RENEWING" of the covenant made with Israel, vs a "NEW" covenant.
 
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bugkiller

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I think there are various reasons for different groups throughout Church History for keeping some of Moses law. But,,,, historically, as in the the Gospels I believe Rabbinic ideas of the covenants, was a major reason for "Judaization". Sadly, I think today, there are those which have taken up to study these ideas, and are applying them.
Mainly it is the way they view the covenants in the old testament scriptures. How each of these covenants "build" one upon another. Many today follow along the lines of these Rabbinic ideas. Such sentiments are expressed in the "RENEWING" of the covenant made with Israel, vs a "NEW" covenant.
So who is renewing a covenant?

bugkiller
 
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Hismessenger

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So according to your understanding...God gave His people A Law that is impossible to keep, then punished them for not keeping it?

This is where the great misunderstanding come from. God did not give his people a law to keep but the law was given to show them their sin. God didn't expect them to keep the law and this is where most of the error comes from. There is a gospel of ordinances being preached and most take this to be accurate, but if you look at the nation Israel when God brought them out of, what was the one thing that he was trying to get them to understand. He wanted them to have FAITH and TRUST him. The gospel that needs to be preached is the gospel of FAITH not ordinances. This is what Christ taught, and his disciples also. Look up the word faith and see for yourself.

hismessenger
 
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JLB777

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This is where the great misunderstanding come from. God did not give his people a law to keep but the law was given to show them their sin. God didn't expect them to keep the law and this is where most of the error comes from. There is a gospel of ordinances being preached and most take this to be accurate, but if you look at the nation Israel when God brought them out of, what was the one thing that he was trying to get them to understand. He wanted them to have FAITH and TRUST him. The gospel that needs to be preached is the gospel of FAITH not ordinances. This is what Christ taught, and his disciples also. Look up the word faith and see for yourself.

hismessenger

Many are under the impression that the Ten Commandments, somehow originated with Moses.

Abraham walked with God and was faithful to Obey His Voice and keep His commandments, 430 years before the law of Moses.

... because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Genesis 26:5

The Kingdom of God has laws.

The Kingdom of God has commandments.

The Ten Commandments are God's Laws.

You shall have no other gods before Me, was God's Law that was violated in the garden of Eden, and is applicable today.

The Law of Moses has become obsolete and has vanished away. Hebrews 8:13

The Law was added until the Seed should come... Galatians 3:19

We have liberty to eat what we want, to wear what we want ...

However, we don't have liberty to sin.

28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29


JLB
 
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disciple1

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1 Timothy chapter 1 verse 8

We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23

So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.

Now no one has ever kept the law except Christ and as it says in Galatians chapter 5 verse 6 the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.
 
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JLB777

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1 Timothy chapter 1 verse 8

We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23

So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.

Now no one has ever kept the law except Christ and as it says in Galatians chapter 5 verse 6 the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

Keep reading the next verse -

9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,

The law was given to stiff necked, stubborn, rebellious, unfaithful people who had to continually be told the difference between right and wrong.

Furthermore, they used up a whole bunch of cattle and goats along the way.

Relationship with God is for those that choose to Obey His Voice and walk in His presence.




JLB
 
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coraline

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1 Timothy chapter 1 verse 8

We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23

So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.

Now no one has ever kept the law except Christ and as it says in Galatians chapter 5 verse 6 the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

Yes. Love fulfills the law!
Gal.5, 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
 
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disciple1

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Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
verse 18 and 19 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless for the law made nothing perfect and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
So Moses ministry brought death and Christs ministry brought righteousness.
2 Corinthians chapter 3 verses 6-9
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant not of the letter but of the spirit; for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
Colossians chapter 2 verses 2-5
My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how orderly you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.
 
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Hismessenger

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9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,

JLB777,
you posted this scripture, yet you still try and defend the law of ordinances.Yes there is a law but it is governed by LOVE and FAITH. Was Abraham given the law or did he walk by faith in what God commanded him to do. The word of God is his command and it is not all written in the bible but it is written in your heart if you have ears to here Him.
The only real law that we are given to keep is to love one another. We are our brothers keeper in Christ. The ROYAL LAW. Love God, submitting to his will, and love your brothern. True obedience is to understand and rest in him

hismessenger
 
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