Evolution Denies - Please Refute this

[loktai]

Fine, then falsify the claim that this state was the same in the past?

That is easy. Retreat of glaciers since 1850 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It has been observed that the rate of glacial retreat is different now than it was in the past.

The thing is it has never been observed that the laws of physics have changed, it is just our understanding of them that changes. Example newtonian gravity, to einsteins gravity. Gravity was always there acting in the same way, it was just explained differently.

The testament to this is the voyager space probes. They were able to calculate the exact launch time and trajectory to slingshot the probes around several planets, taking them close enough to moons to photograph them in great details, while avoidng being smashed to bits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1#Launch_and_trajectory

If scientists are so wrong about the laws of our universe, perhaps you should try a 'Dad' mission where you launch your own probe at a time and date God gives you, and pray for it's safe passage through the solar system and see how that turns out.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yes. Critical thinking is not having our mind hijacked by evil.

Precisely -- which is why people laugh at you.

 

[dad]

That is easy. Retreat of glaciers since 1850 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It has been observed that the rate of glacial retreat is different now than it was in the past.

So how does that prove a same state past false? How fast things melt and climate are features of this state. Pretty lame.

The thing is it has never been observed that the laws of physics have changed, it is just our understanding of them that changes. Example newtonian gravity, to einsteins gravity. Gravity was always there acting in the same way, it was just explained differently.

Newton and Einstein were recent folk. Get serious. The state change would likely have been about 4400 years ago.

The testament to this is the voyager space probes. They were able to calculate the exact launch time and trajectory to slingshot the probes around several planets, taking them close enough to moons to photograph them in great details, while avoidng being smashed to bits.

Voyager 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They also apparently had anomalies as they got further away. The sort of anomaly that a difference in time might explain.

If scientists are so wrong about the laws of our universe, perhaps you should try a 'Dad' mission where you launch your own probe at a time and date God gives you, and pray for it's safe passage through the solar system and see how that turns out.

Jesus and all the holy angels and saints are coming to earth. Different direction than you envisioned, but they will clearly demo the different state stuff.

 

[dad]

Precisely -- which is why people laugh at you.

The last laugh will go to the victor. Hehe

 

[Delphiki]

dad's different state story = no evidence whatsoever

Unchanging physics through all prehistory = only evidence that exists anywhere


This is why nobody cares what dad says. Not to mention he's the only one here that believes his nonsense. Even other creationists don't subscribe to this drivel.

Stop feeding the troll.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not to mention he's the only one here that believes his nonsense. Even other creationists don't subscribe to this drivel.

Solid aurum.

Are you sure about that, Delphiki?

Do you see now why I call you guys "Internet scientists"?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Solid aurum.

Are you sure about that, Delphiki?

Do you see now why I call you guys "Internet scientists"?

Do you see now why we call you comic relief?

 

[NoPostDocFrock]

So how does that prove a same state past false? How fast things melt and climate are features of this state. Pretty lame.

Lame is right. An ice cube left outside in the summer melts at a different rate than an ice cube left outside in the winter. So what? How is your glacier any different? Aren't glaciers made of ice?

Dad, do you ever read and think about what you post? Your "state drivel" needs some supporting evidence OR it needs to be buried in the backyard---in the state of your choice.

The only state here that I'm concerned about is your state of mind.

 

[loktai]

Why is my post lame? I think you have misunderstood it's meaning.

Simply put, if we can observe the laws of physics changing then it would indicate that they may have changed in the past. As we have not yet observed the laws of physics changing, then it has not been falsified.

If gravity stopped working and we all started floating and the earth flew out of it's orbit, that would be an observable change in the way physics works.

The glacial retreat was there for a reference as to why we don't believe the laws of physics were different in the past, it would seem you stopped reading there and assumed I was supporting a different state past.

 

[NoPostDocFrock]

Why is my post lame? I think you have misunderstood it's meaning.
.

Dad has failed to provide ANY evidence for his own hypothesis of "unstable past states". So he is hardly in any position to declare anything to be "lame" when he could easily serve as a dictionary sketch illustration for the term.

His "different past states" is one of those creationist positions that is manufactured out of thin air SOLELY to try and defend a particular traditional interpretation of the Bible which they KNOW is unsupportable by the evidence.

Of course, the "much higher speed of light in the past" is the most infamous example of this. They have no idea that their "cure" is a whole lot crazier than the original disease of which their position is infected. And so they deny the fact that their hypothesis can be put to the test---especially by astrophysics---so that we know that the laws of physics apply in other places and times.

So it is hard to hold back a smile when Dad accuses any idea of being "lame". It is the equivalent of Mr. Magoo accusing his optometrist of being near-sighted.

 

[loktai]

Lame is right. An ice cube left outside in the summer melts at a different rate than an ice cube left outside in the winter. So what? How is your glacier any different? Aren't glaciers made of ice?

Ahem

 

[NoPostDocFrock]

Ahem

Indeed, where does reasoned argument end and pathology begin?

(We are all thinking it. I might as well say it.)

 

[loktai]

My post is along the same lines as "How would you refute evolution" answer bunnies in the cambrian etc.

I highlighted that we can observe slow change all the time around us, however we never observe a change in the laws that govern our universe, so Dad's different state past, although conceivable is EXTREMELY unlikely.

I am not entirely sure what you are talking about.

 

[AV1611VET]

Simply put, if we can observe the laws of physics changing then it would indicate that they may have changed in the past. As we have not yet observed the laws of physics changing, then it has not been falsified.

The laws of physics are going to be changed again -- after the millennial reign of Christ.

According to Peter, God is going to suspend the strong nuclear force and the sub-atomic particles are going to fly apart.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Note that it's not a "big bang" we believe in, but a "great noise."

Gravity, of course, will be suspended, as we traverse back and forth from Earth2 to a 1500 cubed-mile city (New Jerusalem) hovering above, via the King's Highway.

Photosynthesis and the sun will take a backseat to Christ, Himself.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

 

[loktai]

If you say so.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Aside from the fact that he is overlooking ontological reductionism, aside from the fact that he says we have fewer chromosomes than chimps because we are "missing" chromosomes, aside from the fact that he uses the term "common ancestor," instead of "common designer," he can't prove that Adam wasn't created with this Chromosome #2 with its telomeres in the center of the chromosome.

Blaming God as a deceiver, when you are the one who is deceiving yourself, is like my generation blaming "the establishment" for their woes.

Nah, it's not like this at all. It's more like basing a theory on actual evidence. Now the word "evidence," it has a very specified meaning, and certain assumptions and statements can be made when you have enough evidence.

I strongly suggest you become familiar with the evidence, so that you understand what we mean when we use the word in context.

Evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The reason most creationists don't understand the concept of basing theories on evidence, is because they have chosen to believe camp fire creation myths, instead of taking the time to look at actual data.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nah, it's not like this at all. It's more like basing a theory on actual evidence. Now the word "evidence," it has a very specified meaning, and certain assumptions and statements can be made when you have enough evidence.

I strongly suggest you become familiar with the evidence, so that you understand what we mean when we use the word in context.

Evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The reason most creationists don't understand the concept of basing theories on evidence, is because they have chosen to believe camp fire creation myths, instead of taking the time to look at actual data.

Evidence can take a hike.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Evidence can take a hike.

Reality too?

 

[dad]

dad's different state story = no evidence whatsoever

Unchanging physics through all prehistory = only evidence that exists anywhere


This is why nobody cares what dad says. Not to mention he's the only one here that believes his nonsense. Even other creationists don't subscribe to this drivel.

Stop feeding the troll.

I could have things wrong, but it is probably something like that. That old line about believers not 'subscribing' to a different state is not a fair concept. No one really knows about it.

 

[dad]

Lame is right. An ice cube left outside in the summer melts at a different rate than an ice cube left outside in the winter. So what? How is your glacier any different? Aren't glaciers made of ice?

?? 'My' glacier?? I didn't bring that up. Were you driving to a point?

Dad, do you ever read and think about what you post? Your "state drivel" needs some supporting evidence OR it needs to be buried in the backyard---in the state of your choice.

It is supported by scripture and history. It also fits with the known spiritual, rather than ignore it totally. It also fits all physical evidences I have seen that are available by science.

The same state past has nothing at all. Pure fiction.

The only state here that I'm concerned about is your state of mind.

Then relax, doc. It doesn't get any better!