Pentecostalism and Sex

[AFollowerOfTheWay777]

There is NOT anything wrong (sinful) at all about marital oral or anal lovemaking. The marriage bed is undefiled and holy, including any act which stimulates and pleases the husband and wife as one in God (who is perfect love).

In the Old Testament, "sodomy" refers to men lying with men. The English word means “Unnatural sexual intercourse, especially of one man with another or of a human being with an animal.” Unfortunately, some (not all) Christian teachers have erroneously equated sodomy with anal and also oral sex. In the Bible Scriptures, sodomites specifically refer ONLY to male homosexuals or temple prostitutes (both male and female).

In contemporary usage, the term sodomy is sometimes used to describe anal intercourse between a man and woman. This is NOT the true contextual meaning of the biblical word at all. This misinterpretation has led to sexual frustration and lack of fulfillment within MANY marriages, which increases the percentage of marital failure and adultery. It should not be so,...when we already have EVERYTHING we need sexually to become satisfied and fulfilled with our soul-mate and Covenant-partner/spouse.

The "Song of songs" book by Solomon is VERY open and descriptive of two-way oral love-making, etc., and is extremely beautiful in it's poetic language about intimacy. This is one of my favorite books, which is filled with holy and hot, passionate romance.

Same as with performing oral intimacy (act of cunnalingus or felicio),...anal love-making is also righteous and extremely pleasurable between a married husband and wife. There are MANY Christians who do this on a regular basis during times of intimacy. As long as healthy hygiene is maintained, and everything is mutually done in a loving, safe, and non-painful manner which benefits both spouses, the marriage bed remains undefiled and holy. The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit from our heavenly Father (who IS love), and should be explored and utilized to the fullest of it's design and potential, as intended by our Creator. HalleluYAH!!!

 

[Alithis]

a follower of the way - what you speak is untrue
sodomy is taking that which is life and desecrating it . sodomy is not made acceptable just because you change the sex with which it is practiced from male to female . it is wrong . why would any one who is born again of the "HOLY Spirit " even contemplate justifying the practice of that which is UNholy . We are called to walk in the SPIRIT ..not in the flesh .
.
it is difficult to comprehend how may people think Any outer action of the flesh has anything to do with living in the spirit as ones freed from the sinful ways of the flesh .and being freed we are free to NOT follow after the worldy ways of the flesh .
i am of the opinion that more people need to decide whether or not they are believers and followers of the lord Jesus- or followers of the flesh .
we cannot serve two masters . the Lord Jesus stated so ..
- so take it up with Him

 

[AFollowerOfTheWay777]

a follower of the way - what you speak is untrue
sodomy is taking that which is life and desecrating it . sodomy is not made acceptable just because you change the sex with which it is practiced from male to female . it is wrong . why would any one who is born again of the "HOLY Spirit " even contemplate justifying the practice of that which is UNholy . We are called to walk in the SPIRIT ..not in the flesh .
.
it is difficult to comprehend how may people think Any outer action of the flesh has anything to do with living in the spirit as ones freed from the sinful ways of the flesh .and being freed we are free to NOT follow after the worldy ways of the flesh .
i am of the opinion that more people need to decide whether or not they are believers and followers of the lord Jesus- or followers of the flesh .
we cannot serve two masters . the Lord Jesus stated so ..
- so take it up with Him

Michael, thank you for sharing your opinions. It is my belief that even though you are sincere, striving for holiness, and Christlikeness,...in relation to this specific topic, you (unknowingly) take the Word of God completely OUT of the surrounding context, and add your own interpretation to it. We are commanded to NOT add to the Word of God, or take away from it (Deuteronomy 4:2; Proverbs 30:6).

Before I continue,...perhaps I should state for the record that both me and my wife DEEPLY love our heavenly Father, and are followers of the Master Yahushua (Jesus) the Messiah, and have been filled and baptized in the Holy Spirit, operating in the spiritual gifts as the Father wills. We read the Word of God everyday, and have been ministering to others for over 20 years. The Holy Spirit does NOT convict us of the way we make love, but rather, has strengthened our bond and deepened our intimacy which surpasses knowledge, and brings forth daily praises and thanks to our wonderful Creator and Father, who IS love.

Yes,...we are called to walk and live in the Holy Spirit, rather than the flesh. But what does this mean exactly? To walk and live in the Anointing of the Holy Spirit means to follow the perfect will of our heavenly Father, while abiding in Christ, and displaying the "fruit" of the Spirit, including love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." (Galatians 5:23)

You also mentioned the "works of the flesh". What are they specifically?

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:21)

For further clarification of these same works of the flesh, we have other Scriptures which confirm the message so that there is no misunderstanding of context :

The Young's Literal (Bible) Translation says :

Have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

Do you see the CONTEXT???

Here is the way that the majority of Bible translations say that same verse of Scripture :

Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people--none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

This says absolutely NOTHING at all about "forbidding" the consensual anal-lovemaking between a faithful, loving husband and wife within a godly, holy covenant.

We have other Scriptures which specifically forbid numerous types of sexual activity. What specifically are they?

1)Lust (idolatry and covetousness, lascivious spiritual lust in the heart towards a non-spouse) :

You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's. (Exodus 20:17)

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:28)

2)Fornication (sex prior to marital covenant) :

For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication. (1 Thessalonians 4:3)

3)Adultery (sex with a non-spouse, while married) :

You shall not commit adultery. (Exodus 20:14)

4)Incest (sex with family members) :

You are not to come near any close relative for sexual intercourse; I am Yahweh. (Leviticus 18:6)

5)Rape (selfish forced sex against other person's will) :

But if the man encounters an engaged woman in the open country, and he seizes and rapes her, only the man who raped her must die.(Deuteronomy 22:25)

6)Sodomy (homosexual anal sex ONLY between males) :

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (Romans 1:27)

Once again,....NOTHING is specifically stated about anal lovemaking between a husband and wife. The context clearly shows that the Scripture is speaking against SAME-SEX homosexual relations.

7)Lesbianism (homosexual sex between females) :

For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural.(Romans 1:26)

The "unnatural" function is homosexuality,....plain and simple. Do NOT add to the words, or take away from them, but rather, KEEP everything within it's proper surrounding context, so that the meaning and purpose is not lost. The truth will set you free,....NOT the lies and twisting of the Scriptures for vain human interpretation.

8)Necrophilia (sex with the dead) :

Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother.(Leviticus 21:11)

9)Bestiality (sex with animals) :

You are not to have sexual intercourse with any animal, defiling yourself with it; a woman is not to present herself to an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion. (Leviticus 18:23)

The divinely-inspired Scriptures are VERY plain and easy to understand, whenever it comes to the topic of sex. It gives specific details, and leaves no room for error. The commandments are clear about what is forbidden and sinful. Anyone who takes the Scriptures out of context, and adds words and meanings which do not exist anywhere within the entire 66 books of the Holy Bible is doing a disservice to our Creator and His people, and likewise, polluting the stream of truth with the corruption of man-made interpretation and tradition. Let the text speak freely for ITSELF without outside interference. It does not need your help...

All sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful,...but just the same, ALL sexual activity within a marriage is holy :

"For God wants you to be holy and pure and to keep clear of all sexual sin so that each of you will marry in holiness and honor—not in lustful passion as the heathen do, in their ignorance of God and his ways." (I Thessalonians 4:3-5, TLB)

You have NOT shown one single Scripture from any of the 66 books of the collective Bible which says that intimate anal-lovemaking with one's spouse in the undefiled marriage bed is "sinful". There is no such thing as "lust" between a husband and a wife, for the Bible contextually refers to lust being desires for sexual relations OUTSIDE of the marital covenant. Jesus clarifies this by saying that lust is looking at another and committing adultery in your heart. This is IMPOSSIBLE with a spouse, whom we ARE supposed to desire and be enraptured (intoxicated) by.

Let your fountain be blessed, and take pleasure in the wife of your youth. Like a loving deer, a beautiful doe, let her breasts satisfy you all the time. Be constantly intoxicated by her love. (Proverbs 5:18-19)

What does the Scripture say about the body of a spouse?

The husband should fulfill his wife's sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband's needs. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won't be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control. (1 Corinthians 7:3-5)

The marriage bed is holy and undefiled. The body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit and is also holy. We are NOT to refrain from nor hinder the FULL giving and receiving (mutual sharing) of sexual intimacy in the manner which is needed for LOVING (not "lustful") pleasure and the giving of FULL satisfaction. It is NOT "sinful" to provide the act which is needed to achieve mutual satisfaction.

You use the argument that it is the "works of the flesh",...which is a misinterpreted passage based on taking Scriptures completely out of context. The "works of the flesh" are specifically carnal acts of wickedness conducted by those who are lawless and have forsaken the holiness of the Spirit, and do not display His spiritual "fruit" (nature).

Whenever a husband loves his wife in the way which PLEASES her,...he is walking in the Holy Spirit,...NOT the carnal (fallen, ego, self) nature. There is a HUGE difference between the two, so please do not get them confused.

Is it wrong to eat food until your stomach is full,...OR should you remain hungry, and then become malnourished??? So therefore,...if a spouse does not give the mate what is needed for fulfillment (in a loving marriage),...then THIS would be sinful,...depriving the other of what is need (as forbidden in 1 Corinthians 7:3-5).

I have counseled MANY people who's marriages have failed, and ended in divorce,....BECAUSE there was not satisfactory sexual intimacy, and the lack thereof led to the desire for other people. With the manner in which believers (like you) think about sex,...it is no wonder that at least 50% of all Christian marriages end in divorce. I have found by personal experience, as well as heard from MANY other Christian marital couples,...that being sexually open-minded and free in a marriage literally SAVED the relationship. Would you rather the alternative occur,...where spouses are sexually unhappy, unfulfilled, and preferring adultery instead??? The "Song of Songs" book (by Solomon) also displays MUCH passionate romance, and refers to lovemaking in a variety of ways,...including oral sex ([bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]). The entire body IS the Temple,...and should be utilized to the fullest divine potential, just as our Creator originally intended in the beginning.

 

[AFollowerOfTheWay777]

no - buggery is wrong (anal) it is " exchanging the natural for the unnatural "and lowering the temple of the holy Spirit to the base level of beasts.

Not true at all. The Scripture is VERY plain and clear (IF you read it within the proper surrounding context) that sodomy is homosexual sex between males, as all translations show in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

Also, what you call "unnatural" is ONLY one thing, as proven in Romans 1:27-28,...which is homosexual relations between same-sex partners, whether they be males with males, or females with females.

You will NOT find one single Scriptural passage anywhere within all 66 books of the Bible which specifically state that anal-lovemaking between a Christian husband and wife is "sinful". There are at least 613 commandments within the Torah, and many others within the New Testament, with at least NINE specific sex acts detailed in description which are forbidden by our heavenly Creator. He did not forget to leave out anything, for His Law is perfect. So therefore,...we should NOT add to nor take away from His own words. Keep everything in it's context.

Also,...IF anal lovemaking between husband and wife was really "unnatural",...then how does it bring intense pleasure to both partners, as well as triggering extremely powerful G-Spot and full-body [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which SURPASS the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] triggered by regular vaginal intercourse?

It is the same with oral lovemaking ([bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]),...for if done properly,...these acts can trigger extremely powerful G-Spot and full-body [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which can easily surpass the level of pleasure of regular vaginal intercourse.

Why settle for basic sex,....when you can have awesome, mind-blowing sex??? Wouldn't settling for less...actually be denying oneself and one's spouse from experiencing the best of success in maximizing the divine potential of divine unity as one flesh??? It is done in love,...and love never fails.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Very informative.

 

[Johnnz]

Some good material here. There is just so much misinformation, poor exegesis, and unnecessary negativity about human sexuality that is making life far too fraught for many, especially younger, single people.

John
NZ

 

[Alithis]

nope - all i read is a massive speel of self justification. if what you do is not wrong,then you would be innocent of wrong doing and innocence needs no justification -yet you have speeled paragraphs of self justification and amplified justification for increasing fleshy pleasure and to what spiritual end ? none . for no spiritual and godly good comes from the flesh - "for in me , that is ,in my flesh , is no good thing ".

perhaps the lord has not spoken to your hearts about this until now ..
it should concern you that your immediate response is to self justify .

i have heard many of the same arguments from other sects of speaking also - they too come up with massively long explanations as to why their chosen sexual habits are not wrong - but none of these parties seem to care that God desires of us to become as Christ Jesus and not remain as we are - to lay down what WE desire in favor of what the Holy Spirit desires us to do in order to change from that which were and that which we may presently do and enter into a holiness that exceeds that of the flesh .. no matter what that change of self and action may be for each of us .

never the less lord , not MY will .. but THINE be done .

 

[jamadan]

1 Cor 10:23, '“I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive.'

At some point, one needs to realize that some have yielded to a spirit of perversion in the name of permissability. Sorry, but there's little one can say that would ever justify anal sex as something Godly and pleasing. I sense a spirit of perversion is involved in at least one person's post on here.

Ephesians 5:3 'But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. 4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. 5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not become partners with them; 8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), 10 and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret.

 

[AFollowerOfTheWay777]

nope - all i read is a massive speel of self justification. if what you do is not wrong,then you would be innocent of wrong doing and innocence needs no justification -yet you have speeled paragraphs of self justification and amplified justification for increasing fleshy pleasure and to what spiritual end ? none . for no spiritual and godly good comes from the flesh - "for in me , that is ,in my flesh , is no good thing ".

perhaps the lord has not spoken to your hearts about this until now ..
it should concern you that your immediate response is to self justify .

i have heard many of the same arguments from other sects of speaking also - they too come up with massively long explanations as to why their chosen sexual habits are not wrong - but none of these parties seem to care that God desires of us to become as Christ Jesus and not remain as we are - to lay down what WE desire in favor of what the Holy Spirit desires us to do in order to change from that which were and that which we may presently do and enter into a holiness that exceeds that of the flesh .. no matter what that change of self and action may be for each of us .

never the less lord , not MY will .. but THINE be done .

Shalom, Michael. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Once again,...you are blatantly taking the divinely-inspired Word of Yahweh COMPLETELY out of context. I say this, not to be unkind, my brother in Messiah,...but to lovingly illustrate that if we are not careful in handling the Word with balance and wisdom,...then we are doing ourselves (and our Creator) a TERRIBLE disservice by teaching the Scriptures in an erroneous manner which leads to lack and dysfunction, the absence of the full divine potential of the perfect will of our heavenly Father towards us.

You quoted a passage of Scripture from Romans 7:18. However,...statement from the apostle Paul does NOT have the same meaning as the way you have erroneously misinterpreted it. Allow me to clarify :

And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can't.

These words are NOT speaking about the physical body in and of itself. Instead, it is specifically referring to the unrenewed, fallen, carnal, ego-based, self-centered, Adamic-nature of mankind. You can find confirmations of this fact and truth via ANY of the Christian (and Messianic) commentaries out there which have been written by reputable scholars. This is common knowledge that it's directly and contextually about the inner, sinful part of human beings,...and not about our bodies.

There are numerous translations which render it as "sinful nature", rather than "flesh",...because it is MORE accurate. The word "flesh" (σάρξ/sarx in Greek) here is confusing to many people, including yourself,...and should be worded as "fleshly (or carnal) nature". If you study the Hebrew/Greek Strong's Concordance, with good, scholarly commentary about the proper context, you'll see that they all confirm that in this case, the definition is (and I quote...):

(by implication) human nature (with its frailties [physical or moral] and passions), or (special) a human being (as such) :- carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).

Michael,...you accuse me of using "self-justification". On the contrary,...I do not even need to "defend" myself,...because there is absolutely nothing to defend. Why? Because you and others here have completely, 100% failed to quote one single Scripture which specifically states that anal loving-making between a godly husband and wife is "sinful",...even though there are at least 613 commandments in total (within the Torah), and many others (within the New Testament), including at least NINE specific sexual sins.

All you have repeatedly done is take Scriptures COMPLETELY out of their surrounding context, and twisted the Word of Yahweh to the point where the original meaning is lost, causing further confusion and dysfunction for others who are seeking the Truth which liberates.

Psalm 139:14 declares,

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.

The context of this verse is the incredible nature of our physical bodies. The human body is the most complex and unique organism in the world, and that complexity and uniqueness speaks volumes about the mind of its Creator. Every aspect of the body, down to the tiniest microscopic cell, reveals that it is fearfully and wonderfully made.

1 Corinthians 6:19 reveals that our bodies are literally the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit ONLY dwells within guess what. A HOLY body. We become cleansed and holy through the redemptive and atoning blood of Yahushua (Jesus) during the born-again experience, and then the Spirit fills us.

So therefore, to counter what you said : The body of a Christian-Messianic DOES have much good in it,...because it has been washed in Him, and made a holy Temple and dwelling place of God in the Spirit. HalleluYAH!!!

We are to cherish our spouse's body, loving it as our own,...and vice versa. We do not belong to ourselves, but to each other. Notice that the Scripture (in 1 Corinthians 7:4-5) doesn't contextually imply that "only a part" of our spouse's body belongs to us, but rather, ALL of it does. It is a full surrender in holy love as one in perfect unity.

 

[AFollowerOfTheWay777]

1 Cor 10:23, '“I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive.'

At some point, one needs to realize that some have yielded to a spirit of perversion in the name of permissability. Sorry, but there's little one can say that would ever justify anal sex as something Godly and pleasing. I sense a spirit of perversion is involved in at least one person's post on here.

Ephesians 5:3 'But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. 4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. 5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not become partners with them; 8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), 10 and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret.

Shalom, jamadan. Thank you for sharing your opinions. You claim that you "sense a spirit of perversion" here. First of all,...WHAT exactly IS "perversion"? Most certainly,...and thank God,...it is NOT according to what you think it is,...but rather,...what God says it is. There is only ONE divine Standard of righteousness and holiness, and it is already written within the collective of the 66 books of the Holy Bible's Scriptures. It already states what is truly perverse,...and NOT one single Scripture anywhere at all says anything about anal love-making (or oral sex) between a godly husband and wife.

If you conduct thorough and accurate research into the Hebrew/Greek of the Scriptures, as well as good scholarly commentary on the Biblical words, such as "sexual immorality", "impurity", and "filthiness",...you will see that the proper context is actually directly referring to those who are fornicating, committing adultery, being homosexual, having orgies, etc. There is NOT one single passage which says anything at all about what is "permissible" OR "non-permissible" during beautifully-passionate and intensely-satisfying sexual relations between a loving husband and wife in the privacy of their bed-chamber.

Some call it "unclean" to have anal love-making. The Bible says nothing of the sort, but rather, ONLY condemns the practice if done between males in a homosexual manner, because it is against nature,...same as women with women (in Romans 1:26-27) EVERY part of the human body gets dirty, and needs to be cleaned for proper and healthy hygiene. This includes the vagina, which can harbor many different types of germs, bacteria, fungi, etc.,...and must be thoroughly cleaned out on a regular basis, same as with the anus. Anal love-making (if done properly AFTER thorough cleansing) is extremely pleasurable to both spouses, and brings far greater pleasure (than basic vaginal intercourse alone), including triggering mind-blowing G-Spot and full-body [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] (same as with oral sex/[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]).

Everything has it's place, and as a godly married couple explores the full potential of their divinely-inspired relationship and sacred marital covenant, they become less lackadaisical and dysfunctional, and increasingly benefitted and blessed on a mutual level, as the Holy Spirit leads and guides.

 

[jamadan]

Shalom, jamadan. Thank you for sharing your opinions. You claim that you "sense a spirit of perversion" here. First of all,...WHAT exactly IS "perversion"? Most certainly,...and thank God,...it is NOT according to what you think it is,...but rather,...what God says it is. There is only ONE divine Standard of righteousness and holiness, and it is already written within the collective of the 66 books of the Holy Bible's Scriptures. It already states what is truly perverse,...and NOT one single Scripture anywhere at all says anything about anal love-making (or oral sex) between a godly husband and wife.

If you conduct thorough and accurate research into the Hebrew/Greek of the Scriptures, as well as good scholarly commentary on the Biblical words, such as "sexual immorality", "impurity", and "filthiness",...you will see that the proper context is actually directly referring to those who are fornicating, committing adultery, being homosexual, having orgies, etc. There is NOT one single passage which says anything at all about what is "permissible" OR "non-permissible" during beautifully-passionate and intensely-satisfying sexual relations between a loving husband and wife in the privacy of their bed-chamber.

Some call it "unclean" to have anal love-making. The Bible says nothing of the sort, but rather, ONLY condemns the practice if done between males in a homosexual manner, because it is against nature,...same as women with women (in Romans 1:26-27) EVERY part of the human body gets dirty, and needs to be cleaned for proper and healthy hygiene. This includes the vagina, which can harbor many different types of germs, bacteria, fungi, etc.,...and must be thoroughly cleaned out on a regular basis, same as with the anus. Anal love-making (if done properly AFTER thorough cleansing) is extremely pleasurable to both spouses, and brings far greater pleasure (than basic vaginal intercourse alone), including triggering mind-blowing G-Spot and full-body [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] (same as with oral sex/[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]).

Everything has it's place, and as a godly married couple explores the full potential of their divinely-inspired relationship and sacred marital covenant, they become less lackadaisical and dysfunctional, and increasingly benefitted and blessed on a mutual level, as the Holy Spirit leads and guides.

I think you're allowing an evil spirit to speak through you and to fuel your efforts to justify what the Spirit of God is telling you is wrong. I will not entertain your arguments as I believe they are from evil spirits. The Spirit of God is grieved by your efforts to scintillate and describe in detail what I believe was learned through too much internet pornography. I would request a moderator clean this up by deleting your last few posts.

 

[AFollowerOfTheWay777]

I think you're allowing an evil spirit to speak through you and to fuel your efforts to justify what the Spirit of God is telling you is wrong. I will not entertain your arguments as I believe they are from evil spirits. The Spirit of God is grieved by your efforts to scintillate and describe in detail what I believe was learned through too much internet pornography. I would request a moderator clean this up by deleting your last few posts.

I respect your opinion. However,...it is not wise to judge me, and claim that you think that demonic entities are speaking through me. I am a Holy Spirit-filled/baptized believer in the Lord Jesus the Messiah, and have been for over 20 years. My wife is also a Holy Spirit-filled Christian, etc. There are MANY Christians-Messianics who are deeply devoted to serving and following the Lord, living holy lives for Him,...while ALSO being open-minded in our expressions of love for our spouses.

The information that I learned about this did NOT come from "too much internet pornography". How dare you accuse me of looking at porn??? Shame on you for false judgement. On the contrary,...I learned what I know from personal experience, and likewise, from Christian marital sex courses at my (former) local church, as well as online. MANY other Christians believe in non-lustful/carnal masturbation, anal, and also oral love-making within a marriage. There are some believers who still interpret these topics as "taboo" and "unholy",...even though the Holy Bible's Scriptures say absolutely nothing of the sort,...but rather, condemns numerous other sexual practices with clear detail, so that there is no misunderstanding.

It is wrong of you to judge a person whom you do not know, and who follows EVERY divine commandment of the Word of God to the letter, by faith, and in grace, via Christ Jesus.

I sincerely hope that this information is allowed to be shared, rather than censored,...for the sake of others benefiting in romantic relationships with their spouses from this type of awareness-knowledge and truth which liberates people from the terrible bondage of vain traditionalism and sexual narrow-mindedness, which leads to lack and dysfunction. Do not add to the divinely-inspired Word nor take away from it. It speaks clearly for itself. HalleluYAH!!!

 

[jamadan]

It is not wrong to exercise proper discerning of spirits, which is a gift of the Holy Spirit and is absolutely proper. In fact, failure to exercise such judgement is a sin and the reason for more than one rebuke from the Lord in Revelation to the churches. When we hear doctrines of demons, we're to call them out and reject them. I stand by that judgement. I believe your 'mind blowing', 'full-body orgasmic' description of anal sex that supposedly exceeds the pleasure of intercourse is from the pit of hell - in another word 'perversion'.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

I want to add this:

And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even. (Leviticus 15:16-18 KJV)

When this was quoted; I am not sure what version it was, but when I read the KJV; it seems to me that the two verses are tied, meaning the man was not alone with the seed of copulation; but the women was present.

Am I reading it wrong?

 

[AFollowerOfTheWay777]

It is not wrong to exercise proper discerning of spirits, which is a gift of the Holy Spirit and is absolutely proper. In fact, failure to exercise such judgement is a sin and the reason for more than one rebuke from the Lord in Revelation to the churches. When we hear doctrines of demons, we're to call them out and reject them. I stand by that judgement. I believe your 'mind blowing', 'full-body orgasmic' description of anal sex that supposedly exceeds the pleasure of intercourse is from the pit of hell - in another word 'perversion'.

I agree with only one thing you said. Yes,..we are to righteously discern by the Holy Spirit about the evil spirits which operate deceptively through others. However,...this judgment and discernment MUST be righteous, and done in precise accordance of the divinely-inspired Word of Yahweh.

You did no such thing,..for you have absolutely NO Biblical foundation to "judge" or "discern against" anything I have shared. You falsely accused me of looking too much at internet porn,...even though I have done no such thing,...but rather,...learned by experience, combined with excellent teaching about sex from various Christian pastors and teachers.

You call this "doctrines of demons" and "perversion",...and yet, have not one single Scripture which proves your case. The Bible speaks of a man knowing his wife (through sexual relations),...but doesn't specify precisely HOW a husband can know his wife. In other words,...it is up to the couple to decide for themselves what works best for them sexually as one flesh. If anal and oral sex triggers powerful [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse],...and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] were originally created by our heavenly Father (through Christ),....then what is the problem??? The [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] are the result of successful sexual relations,...and they lead to deeper intimacy and connection between husband and wife. Is that sinful? No, not at all! I love my wife more, and vice versa. Would you rather the opposite occur?

 

[jamadan]

I agree with only one thing you said. Yes,..we are to righteously discern by the Holy Spirit about the evil spirits which operate deceptively through others. However,...this judgment and discernment MUST be righteous, and done in precise accordance of the divinely-inspired Word of Yahweh.

You did no such thing,..for you have absolutely NO Biblical foundation to "judge" or "discern against" anything I have shared. You falsely accused me of looking too much at internet porn,...even though I have done no such thing,...but rather,...learned by experience, combined with excellent teaching about sex from various Christian pastors and teachers.

You call this "doctrines of demons" and "perversion",...and yet, have not one single Scripture which proves your case. The Bible speaks of a man knowing his wife (through sexual relations),...but doesn't specify precisely HOW a husband can know his wife. In other words,...it is up to the couple to decide for themselves what works best for them sexually as one flesh. If anal and oral sex triggers powerful [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse],...and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] were originally created by our heavenly Father (through Christ),....then what is the problem??? The [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] are the result of successful sexual relations,...and they lead to deeper intimacy and connection between husband and wife. Is that sinful? No, not at all! I love my wife more, and vice versa. Would you rather the opposite occur?

First, with respect to 'internet porn', perhaps I didn't qualify that enough. By saying "I believe", I was trying to say that 'in my opinion' your statements could have easily come from internet porn . . . they certainly aren't from Scripture. Your claim that they came from a Christian ministry doesn't validate it with me, it's from the same source as internet porn, demons who look to pervert God's natural way, which is really what I was saying.

You've spent a great deal of energy refuting people trying to assert that Scripture doesn't condemn anal sex, but neither is there a single Scripture that promotes or condones it. Your attempt to make me find Scripture to condemn anal sex needs to be turned around. It's you who need to find Scripture to prove your point, not me. I'm all on board with wonderful, relational sex that affirms marriage and honors God and each other with our bodies, including various methods of foreplay inferred in the Song of Solomon; but anal sex is not inferred there and clearly crosses a line that should not be crossed. Just because it feels good (which is your argument) doesn't mean it's okay to do it . . . for God's sake (literally) how many sins can be justified using your logic there.

BTW, discerning of spirits is a gift that operates in particular for issue just like this. Scripture does not cover ever instance in life, that's why we have the Spirit within, to provide us with the Judge Himself to govern our actions in such matters.

 

[dayhiker]

I think you are reading those verses correctly.

We today don't often understand how unclean was used back then as our culture/national identity isn't based on these customs. Back in OT times each group of people had their own clean and unclean activities. These were the customs that identified them as being part of that group/family or people. So Israel had the list we have in Leviticus. If one didn't follow the purity rules of their group/family then they were a traitor to their group/family.

So last week many Hindu went to the Ganges River to wash in the river to purify themselves. They walked out of the river purified. Now many in the west poked fun at them because the river is dirt water. But ritual purification isn't about being clean from dirt. Its a clean that come from obeying the purity laws of ones group.

Much of the tension in the early church was around this question of were the Gentiles going to ahve to obey the purity laws of Israel to be right with God. The Apostles said over and over that no they didn't. So today we can be Christians and live in any group/culture we want as long as Jesus is our righteousness.

I want to add this:

And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even. (Leviticus 15:16-18 KJV)

When this was quoted; I am not sure what version it was, but when I read the KJV; it seems to me that the two verses are tied, meaning the man was not alone with the seed of copulation; but the women was present.

Am I reading it wrong?

 

[Alithis]

a follower of the way - but the way of the Spirit or the way of the flesh ?
seems you have expertese in explaining self justification for the flesh .
and no i have not misinterpreted the bible wrongfully .. i have simply interpreted you correctly. we study most that which we love the most - your over piled knowledge on maters fleshy shouts aloud . I think the letter of Jude describes you well .

"For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,...-"

 

[FreeSlave]

Any kind of sex is ok as long as its voluntary and just between a husband and wife.

 

[AFollowerOfTheWay777]

I want to add this:

And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even. (Leviticus 15:16-18 KJV)

When this was quoted; I am not sure what version it was, but when I read the KJV; it seems to me that the two verses are tied, meaning the man was not alone with the seed of copulation; but the women was present.

Am I reading it wrong?

The Holy Bible (especially the Torah) does NOT ever label masturbation as a "sin", but rather, clearly illustrates that all that is necessary after the emission of sperm (whether it's during masturbation OR marital sexual intercourse) is to simply ritually cleanse oneself and anything that the sperm comes into contact with.

While there are some so-called religious "scholars" out there who claim that it is "sin", according to traditional Jewish writings. However,...we must not follow man-made tradition (which Messiah warned causes the "word of God to become of no effect"), but rather, stick to ONLY the holy and divinely-inspired Word of Yahweh. What does His Word say about seminal emissions?

"Whenever a man has an emission of sperm, he must bathe his entire body in water, and he will remain ceremonially unclean until the next evening. And every garment and every skin on which the sperm comes shall be washed with water and be unclean until the evening. If a man lies with a woman and has an emission of sperm, both of them shall bathe themselves in water and be unclean until the evening." (Leviticus 15:16-18)

Do you notice the context of this passage? Verses 16 and 17 are specifically referring to a man emitting sperm WHILE ALONE,....and then verse 18 refers to the husband and wife being together. All that is necessary for either scenario is to wash and become clean. There is absolutely NO mention anywhere of "sin" and "transgression" in reference to masturbation or the "spilling of seed", at all.

Also,...there are MANY believers who teach that masturbation not only helps cleanse the flow of sexual hormones (thus reducing the risk of cancer, etc.), boosts the immune system, relieves depression, anxiety, insomnia and other negative emotional/physical states, helping one to become relaxed, calm, and able to sleep deeply again. Likewise, for single people (and also married couples during brief periods times of sexual inactivity) it also helps to reduce the risk of sexual lust towards others by reducing the intensity of the urges, and bringing much-needed release and relief.

The "sin of Onan" (from Bereshith/(Genesis 38:3-10) is NOT about masturbation at all,...but rather, specifically coitus interruptus. He had sex with his sterile brother's wife, but deliberately refused to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] within her. He went outside his tent to spill his seed upon the ground, rather than impregnating her as he should have done, in order to continue the genetic bloodline. Because he basically "sowed death" by refusing to giving the life of his seed, Yahweh killed him.

Here is one of numerous sources which confirm this reality :

"when Onan had sex with Tamar, he disregarded this principle when he withdrew before climax and "spilled his seed [or sperm] on the ground", since any child born would not legally be considered his heir. He disregarded the principle of a levirate union, so he died prematurely, exactly as God had warned would happen.....

According to some Bible critics who contextually read this passage, the description of Onan is an origin myth concerning fluctuations in the constituency of the tribe of Judah, with the death of Onan reflecting the dying out of a clan; Er and Onan are hence viewed as each being representative of a clan, with Onan possibly representing an Edomite clan named Onam, mentioned by an Edomite genealogy in Genesis.
Also, it has been suggested that God's anger was directed not at the sexual act, but at Onan's disobedience by refusing to impregnate his brother's widow. It is also clear from the text that God was not angry at all, since the word "anger" or "angry" appears nowhere in those verses.

The text emphasizes the social and legal situation, with Judah explaining what Onan must do and why. A plain reading of the text is that Onan was killed because he refused to follow instructions. Scholars have argued that the secondary purpose of the narrative about Onan and Tamar, of which the description of Onan is a part, was to either assert the institution of levirate marriage, or present an aetiological myth for its origin; Onan's role in the narrative is, thus, as the brother abusing his obligations by agreeing to sexual intercourse with his dead brother's wife, but refusing to allow her to become pregnant as a result. Emerton regards the evidence for this to be inconclusive, although classical rabbinical writers argued that this narrative describes the origin of levirate marriage.

A number of scholars maintain that the story does not refer to masturbation, but to coitus interruptus, and that the Bible does not claim that masturbation would be sinful." (from :Wikipedia about Onan)

Let us test the Word of the Scriptures together, and hold fast to that which is good, while dispensing of negative, burdensome, and fallible man-made traditions which can potentially block, hinder, and nullify the progression of His Truth which liberates us.

I do not believe that the Holy Spirit is grieved, quenched or vexed by masturbation at all, because the Scriptures hold up the Truth with clarity. There are MANY credible medical sources (and health magazines) out there which confirm the reality that masturbation is VERY healthy for the body and mind, produces numerous benefits which enhance vitality and livelihood.

Your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Do your best to maintain it in good health, so that you will experience proper balance and harmony of your body with your soul and spirit.

Many Christians-Messianics believe that righteous masturbation is healthy and good for you, whether single or married, as long as it is conducted with self-control, wisdom and holiness, without going to any extremes, including lust, lasciviousness (lack of restraint by overindulging in excessiveness). As the saying goes : "All things in moderation..." Another expression goes : "Too much of any good thing will hurt you". In and of itself,...masturbation (just like marital intercourse) IS a divine gift to us who were created as powerful sexual beings.

Those who ignore the gift of sexual release (in a proper and holy manner, while abstaining from lust towards a non-spouse/outside of marriage) are only hurting themselves physically, emotionally, mentally, etc. Those who use their Yahweh-given imagination and physical abilities can experience true release and rest (which follows).

A single person can 100% avoid lust/adultery by righteously fantasizing about an imaginary partner (who does not exist). A married person can fantasize about their spouse during brief periods of intercourse inactivity. This helps prevent the tension and frustration from building to an uncomfortable point and causing further dysfunction. Our heavenly Creator has given us this ability, and we should use it to our express benefit and blessing, just as He intended, when He created us with arms perfectly lengthened with hands (and opposable thumbs) which reaches our private area with excellent accuracy. This is divinely-planned, and nothing is coincidental.