Do we plan our own steps?

[cygnusx1]

ASnd as for scripture

Is 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.


turned to his own way

Who's way ? God's way ? NO turned to his own way

This is the word of the Lord. Not difficult.

As for the text in question ? Has it gone away ?

 

[gmm4j]

If he's broken one commandment, he's broken them all.

 

[cygnusx1]

If he's broken one commandment, he's broken them all.

Context counts

 

[JackSparrow]

As for the text in question ? Has it gone away ?

Is God the author of confusion ? No

Is 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.


Maybe I have a childlike faith cuz this aint confusing to me.

 

[JackSparrow]

Luke 18:17, Jesus says that anyone who does not receive the kingdom like a little child shall not enter into it.

CX1

 

[gmm4j]

Context counts

Why? Are you trying to keep our Sovereign God in a box? God directs our steps and creates our context. He directs man to sow what He wants him to reap, for what man will sow and will reap has already been determined.

To what ends would God do it this way? To bring Him glory? When it is a forced glory? Directed and determined worship without alternative? Every knee will bow! Directed and determined obedience, some before His return and some after, all at His direction? Wow.

 

[cygnusx1]

Is God the author of confusion ? No

Is 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.


Maybe I have a childlike faith cuz this aint confusing to me.

Luke 18:17, Jesus says that anyone who does not receive the kingdom like a little child shall not enter into it.

CX1

Scripture isn't a box of chocs , still waiting for you to deal with the issue of the elephant in the room , ie the scriptures relating to the subject at hand , you will find them on page one , they are not going away no matter how much gloss is engaged

 

[cygnusx1]

Why? Are you trying to keep our Sovereign God in a box? God directs our steps and creates our context. He directs man to sow what He wants him to reap, for what man will sow and will reap has already been determined.

"I know officer that I was going 60 in a 35mph zone, but it wasn't my decision. The Lord made me do it."

Or


"It wasn't my fault officer I was just being directed by God to sow this speed in order to get what I must reap , it's already been determined "

 

[JackSparrow]

Scripture isn't a box of chocs , still waiting for you to deal with the issue of the elephant in the room , ie the scriptures relating to the subject at hand , you will find them on page one , they are not going away no matter how much gloss is engaged

Right no chocs. And no gloss either. Not sure about your elephant.

Do we chose our own steps ?

Referring back to the bricklayer example I gave.

If the bricklayer works at full pelt he might gets a few rooms built. He could freely choose to skive of or something.

God knows the tower will never reach heaven in a Given time so he does not have to control the builder(s) like puppets.

Incidentally if God did not want the tower of babel built why did he make/force/ordain.predestine ( whatever word you want) builder to start building it.

Just as God walked with Adam and Eve in the cool of the day. He was not around all the time.

Bottom line. God does not have to control the universe absolutely deterministically (like winding a clock work clock and letting it go ) to know what is going on and so on.

To say he does defeats the whole of the Bible. It calls God a liar.
It brings and infinite God down to man's finite level so cannot be correct.

Many time in the Bible we are told to choose. Is God having a laugh to fool those stupid puppets ? C'mon.

A Calvinist writer wrote an article. (I will find it if you want) about Babies going to hell. His conclusion was that a baby dying will not have sin full works recorded so at the white throne judgment there will be nothing to judge and so the baby will get to heaven. Fantastic

Except this means its works based salvation ( OK lack of work) i.e grown ups get in or not based on what is recored in the book..


In essence and being over simple. Calvinism takes some passages too literally and ignore or works around other passages to make thing fir. And no I am not claiming Arminianism is any better.

What make me smile though is Calvinism is based on Newtonian physics.

If you get time look up Pointcares Conjecture.

 

[JackSparrow]

Know I need to go and walk the elephants.

 

[cygnusx1]

The elephant in the room continues to be ignored , page one needs your attention

 

[Shulamite]

Yes, page one needs to be read again....., thoroughly. Take each verse to heart. Is there any scripture stated on page one that says YOU/WE have the ability and power to direct our own way?

Yes or no?

I say no. If my life is already written in God's book from beginning to end (Psalm 139) then WHERE am I any part of authoring it?

 

[cygnusx1]

Back to the risk fallacy again.

If I employ a builder and I know the maximum amount of bricks he can lay in an hour. I can foreknow the builder will not have built a 4 storey block of flats while I have gone for a tea break. I can know this with absolute certainty WITHOUT having to control the bricklayer like a puppet.

Same with God and the tower of babel.
Same with God and all man.

To say that God must preordain ALL movement of atoms otherwise he is taking a risk is nothing more than fallacy. It limits God in the extreme. Nonsense.

Its you who have limited God .
The difference should be obvious , you cannot change the ability of the bricklayer or the outcome of the bricks , in truth you are stuck with the limitations of another human , however , God is not so confined and limited as you suppose , He knows what will be because He has decreed it !
Alternatively , to deny God foreordains all things brings God back to being a spectator of fate , or worse absent , only knowing what will be not deciding what will be is useless , it advantages nobody and places God at the mercy of fate , He cannot change what He foreknows . It is impossible to unknow what is known .

Help me Lord ?

What , no answer ?

Has God either gone away , like the guy in charge of the bricklayer , or does God merely know what will be ? Either limitation is useless to humans

 

[cygnusx1]

If humans can choose to do whatever regardless of Gods will then certainly the result has to be a risk taking God ?

Did God risk Adam sinning in Eden ?

Then was it certain what Adam would do .......

 

[JackSparrow]

If humans can choose to do whatever regardless of Gods will then certainly the result has to be a risk taking God ?

Did God risk Adam sinning in Eden ?

Then was it certain what Adam would do .......

Not whatever regardless. This is where we differ.

 

[JackSparrow]

The elephant in the room continues to be ignored , page one needs your attention

Not ignored, just lost by your ducking and diving. Simply state what you want to debate.

If it helps you then yes I believe man has a 'limited menu'. I.e can and does determining many of his own steps. Many does NOT mean all and it does NOT mean none. Man is not a robot.

Recently some car insurance scammers tried to cause a shunt on a motor way in the UK. The scam went wrong and a young lady was mown down and killed. You say this was the decree of God for his glory. I disagree with you.

I have just started a thread regarding fatalism. Perhaps feed your elephant there.

 

[cygnusx1]

Not ignored, just lost by your ducking and diving. Simply state what you want to debate.

If it helps you then yes I believe man has a 'limited menu'. I.e can and does determining many of his own steps. Many does NOT mean all and it does NOT mean none. Man is not a robot.

Recently some car insurance scammers tried to cause a shunt on a motor way in the UK. The scam went wrong and a young lady was mown down and killed. You say this was the decree of God for his glory. I disagree with you.

I have just started a thread regarding fatalism. Perhaps feed your elephant there.

So you ignore the scripture at hand and reject God orders mans steps ..just some of them , no doubt screened by your philosophy ..... Thanks for your frank rejection of scripture and Gods sovereignty , Scripture says God works all things together for good , but you know better. God decrees just some of mans steps = part time fatalist by your own standard !

 

[JackSparrow]

So you ignore the scripture at hand and reject God orders mans steps ..just some of them , no doubt screened by your philosophy ..... Thanks for your frank rejection of scripture and Gods sovereignty , Scripture says God works all things together for good , but you know better. God decrees just some of mans steps = part time fatalist by your own standard !

No sir, you speak with false tongue.

You twist things around and infer I am a heretic. I have NEVER rejected God's sovereignty.

I believe you are one of those who are here to "wade in for a fight" and best to be put on the ignore list.

 

[cygnusx1]

Part time ordering of a humans steps by The Lord is part time fatalism by those who deny full time ordering of mans steps by The Lord , denying it calling its"fatalism"

 

[JackSparrow]

Whatever. So you are a full time fatalist. Bully for you.
Go on have the last post. I am out of the thread as soon as I can find the ignore button.