Mat 28:1 teaches Shabbat Resurrection

[Daniel Gregg]

but it does say days before night: "three days and three nights"

1 Samuel 30:17 And David smote them from the twilight even unto the evening of THEIR next day: and there escaped not a man of them, save four hundred young men, who rode upon camels and fled.

When was the SERVANT revived? Just before dawn.

When the Jewish religious leaders asked Jesus for a sign to prove that He was sent from God, Yeshua answered, Matt 12:39-40 An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet NO SIGN shall be given to it BUT THE SIGN OF JONAH the prophet. For just as Jonah was THREE DAYS and THREE NIGHTS in the belly of the sea monster, so shall the Son of man be THREE DAYS and THREE NIGHTS in the heart of the earth.

First 24 hours = First Night and Day
Wednesday evening - taken to the tomb
Start of the High Sabbath
Start of the Feast of Unleaven Bread

Second 24 hours = Second Night and Day
Thursday Evening - preparations for the coming Sabbath start
Market opens in the morning and the Women go to purchase spices necessary to prepare Yeshua's body along with the regular preparations for the Sabbath.

Third 24 hours. = Third Night and Day
Friday Evening - Women were unable to finish the spice preparations for the body so they rested for the Sabbath. Saturday Evening - Sometime between Saturday evening and Sunday morning Yeshua was resurrected.

The priests go out very early to gather the first wave sheafs to bring back to the temple for the Feast of First Fruits. Women go to the tomb bright and early sunday morning only to find that He is already resurrected.

 

[ananda]

OK, as usual I was making it more difficult than necessary. So 3 days and 3 nights (72 hours) would have expired no sooner than noon and more likely about 3 pm on the Seventh Day assuming as we both do now that Yeshua's crucifixion took place on the Fourth Day (Aviv 14)..

No, I believe that Messiah's crucifixion happened on the third Biblical day, 14 Aviv, aka Tuesday, March 27, 31.A.D.

 

[WOFFED]

No, I believe that Messiah's crucifixion happened on the third Biblical day, 14 Aviv, aka Tuesday, March 27, 31.A.D.

That was my thought according to Hosea 6:2 (the third day having double meaning - The Third Day as well as 3 days/72 hours) with the implication then being that the earthquake/angel that rolled the stone away occured early morning on Aviv 18 (assuming Aviv 14 was on the Third Day). Aviv 18 would have been the Seventh Dary which was Sabbath when the resurrection occured as I suggested at 3am

If the earthquake had occured exactly after 72 hours it would have taken place at say 3pm which would still have been a few hours before the beginning of the Seventh Sabbath Day. If the eathquake had occured during the first couple hours of the Sabbath (7th Day) it is more likely that news would have spread and curiosity seekers would have been over to inspect the tomb before retiring for the evening. It seems more likely that the rolling away of the stone took place at night before dawn.

 

[mishkan]

Messiah said "Are there not twelve hours in the day?"

And the answer is... "Approximately". It depends upon your location and the time of year.

Jn 11:9 Messiah Himself defined the period of a day (and by implication, the night). 3 days + 3 nights = 72 hours.

You're drawing a false implication, based on the Western bias to add more precision than was intended.

I think it's also interesting to note that Messiah's comment here about the 12 hours was in context of raising Lazarus from the dead, and also in light of those who wanted to stone Messiah. I believe that both contexts allude to Messiah's own death & resurrection, and that His definition of a day is in reference to the same.

Not seeing why you think either of those contexts would have anything to do with how long Yeshua was in the grave.

So, in my opinion, a

partial day, e.g. 3pm-sunset, does not constitute "one day", in light of Messiah's definition.

Then you are reading into the expression at one point, and deliberately removing the original meaning at another point. Not just one, but two errors, I believe.

The expression "three days and three nights" does not carry the precision you would like. If you consider all the uses of this, and similar, phrases, you will find that it means "about three days". Throughout the Gospels, the far more consistent statement is that Yeshua would be "raised the third day". That is... on the third day, prior to any assumed 72 hour time line. Yet again, another strong argument for using inclusive counting.

Any assumption of precision such as you suggest violates both the Biblical testimony (using one phrase while ignoring others describing the same time period) and cultural norm of Middle Easterners to use inclusive counting.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Opse with the genitive = Later. It late on the Sabbath, but the LATER of the SABBATHS.

“Later” is an adverb. Tell me how an adverb is followed by a genitive, will you? Nonsense.

 

[yonah_mishael]

We agree on the later point, Yonah, however the embalming was done by Joseph and Nicodemus on Friday (see Graham Scroggie, Guide to the gospels). The women took aromatics...sweet spices. It was merely the last opportunity to visit and show respect for the dead at the end of the third day.

Exactly. John's gospel has the anointing of the body (embalming, hardly!!!) done by these two. The other gospels doesn't mention this. In the Synoptics, the women are coming to do it. I've written about this before, but I cannot argue about it here.

 

[WOFFED]

Matthew 28:1 (YLT)
And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Matthew 28:1 (ASV)
Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Young’s Literal Translation (YLT) is puzzling. Can you guys make sense of it ? It does seem as if the translators are trying to appease both sides of the coin (Seventh Day Resurrection vs First Day Resurrection). Or is it possible that this Passover resulted in 2 or 3 Sabbaths during this most Holy moed.

These translations as well as others seem to be in agreement that Yeshua’s resurrection occurred on the First Day. How can one interpret any differently unless they stubbornly believe the Messiah had to be resurrected on the Seventh Day.

EDIT: I'll take that back. It does appear as if the ASV translation may be the only translation that implies the ressurection took place on the Sabbath, but then that means that Aviv 14 was on the Third Day.

 

[ananda]

And the answer is... "Approximately". It depends upon your location and the time of year. You're drawing a false implication, based on the Western bias to add more precision than was intended ... cultural norm of Middle Easterners to use inclusive counting.

Perhaps so, but it is my personal belief that I doubt Messiah would have given the religious authorities of the period any reason to question or invalidate His resurrection.

 

[ananda]

Young’s Literal Translation (YLT) is puzzling. Can you guys make sense of it ? It does seem as if the translators are trying to appease both sides of the coin (Seventh Day Resurrection vs First Day Resurrection). Or is it possible that this Passover resulted in 2 or 3 Sabbaths during this most Holy moed.

Both myself & Daniel addressed this verse in our previous posts.

 

[WOFFED]

Perhaps so, but it is my personal belief that I doubt Messiah would have given the religious authorities of the period any reason to question or invalidate His resurrection.

So, how many others besides you and Daniel believe the ASV is one of the better translations with Aviv 14 occurring on the Third Day and not the Fourth Day as many believe.

 

[mishkan]

Perhaps so, but it is my personal belief that I doubt Messiah would have given the religious authorities of the period any reason to question or invalidate His resurrection.

OK... Just so you realize you are doing violence to the text in order to be compatible with your bias. Yeshua said what he said, and it had a certain meaning in his day. It is our job to understand what he said, not alter it to fit our prejudices.

 

[ananda]

So, how many others besides you and Daniel believe the ASV is one of the better translations with Aviv 14 occurring on the Third Day and not the Fourth Day as many believe.

It can fall on different days, depending on the year.

 

[WOFFED]

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You're drawing a false implication, based on the Western bias to add more precision than was intended.

You've got to be kidding. G-d is VERY PRECISE. The universe proclaims Yahweh's precision. That said if Yeshua were resurrected exactly after 72 hours it would still be the Sixth Day with a couple hours (give or take) until sundown and the beginning of the Seventh Day. This is all assuming that Messiah Yeshua was crucificed on the Third Day as netzarim believes.

 

[ananda]

OK... Just so you realize you are doing violence to the text in order to be compatible with your bias. Yeshua said what he said, and it had a certain meaning in his day. It is our job to understand what he said, not alter it to fit our prejudices.

I believe He was being precise, whereas you do not. Whether you or I are doing violence to His words would simply be a matter of perspective.

 

[WOFFED]

It can fall on different days, depending on the year.

Well, Daaa! We all know that.
So who else on this thread besides you believes that Aviv 14 occurred on the Third Day instead of the Fourth Day as most believe. I should say that I am certainly open to that "theory" but scripture seems to imply otherwise regarding the resurrection as taking place on the First Day (Sunday to western religion).

It's possible that the Catholic Church SO INFLUENCED protestants that all of the translations could be skewed toward the First Day when in fact the Resurrection could have occurred on the Seventh Day. What Say?

 

[visionary]

Well, Daaa! We all know that.
So who else on this thread besides you believes that Aviv 14 occurred on the Third Day instead of the Fourth Day as most believe. I should say that I am certainly open to that "theory" but scripture seems to imply otherwise regarding the resurrection as taking place on the First Day (Sunday to western religion).

It's possible that the Catholic Church SO INFLUENCED protestants that all of the translations could be skewed toward the First Day when in fact the Resurrection could have occurred on the Seventh Day. What Say?

Isn't it amazing.. God knowing how the annual feasts float around the week tied First Fruits and Pentecost to the first of the week.. and then made sure that the year that Yeshua did it would be three days and three nights... from Passover to the Time when the wave sheaf would be gathered in for the First Fruits celebration the next morning.... He is so smart.

 

[pat34lee]

Exactly. John's gospel has the anointing of the body (embalming, hardly!!!) done by these two. The other gospels doesn't mention this. In the Synoptics, the women are coming to do it. I've written about this before, but I cannot argue about it here.

If you have the text of that, could you email it to me? I would like to read it.

 

[Daniel Gregg]

The women set out or arrived "at the dawning on the first of the Sabbaths" vs. 1, and then the earthquake happened vs. 2....so 3 a.m. is too early.

OK, as usual I was making it more difficult than necessary. So 3 days and 3 nights (72 hours) would have expired no sooner than noon and more likely about 3 pm on the Seventh Day assuming as we both do now that Yeshua's crucifixion took place on the Fourth Day (Aviv 14).

My own ‘theory’ is that the earthquake that rolled the stone away occurred at 3am about nine hours into the First Day. My reasoning for 3am is that I’ve heard of so many Believers (myself included) being awakened at 3am by the L-rd. Also the number 3 and 12 hours elapsing from 3pm to 3am for a total of 84 hours since Yeshua's crucifixion death. Eighty-four divided by twelve is seven which is symbolic for 'completion.'. Oh, here I go again

The darkest hour has long been used to mean 'the lowest ebb' with the hour before dawn most often referred to figuratively, but I'll still stick with 3am.



.

 

[WOFFED]

Isn't it amazing.. God knowing how the annual feasts float around the week tied First Fruits and Pentecost to the first of the week.. and then made sure that the year that Yeshua did it would be three days and three nights... from Passover to the Time when the wave sheaf would be gathered in for the First Fruits celebration the next morning.... He is so smart.

Yes, almost impossible to believe that all of the translations could be in error regarding the First Day (Sunday(Sonday) to us) being Resurrection Day with Yeshua HaMashiach as the first fruit of the New Covenant Wine.

So any way netzarim didn't reply so I take it he is the only one in this thread that believes Aviv 14 occurred on the Third Day instead of the Fourth Day as most everyone believes. At one time he implied Yeshua was resurrected after exactly 72 hours. Well, if that was the case then Yeshua was resurrected on the Sixth Day just three hours before the beginning of the Seventh Day Sabbath ... assuming He died at 3pm and sundown was at 6pm.

Any way it really got me to thinking and as usual I got confused in the forest for all the trees making it more difficult to find my way.

 

[WOFFED]

The women set out or arrived "at the dawning on the first of the Sabbaths" vs. 1, and then the earthquake happened vs. 2....so 3 a.m. is too early.

Matthew 28:2 (NASB)

And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.​

Mattityahu 28:2 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
And hinei! a great earthquake had occurred, for a malach Adonoi (an angel of Hashem) descended from Shomayim and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.​

The earthquake occurred previous to Mary Magdalene and the other Mary arriving at the tomb. Agreed that whether it happened one hour or two hours earlier is speculative. It also says as it began to dawn so they arrived before sunrise. That time of the year there is enough light to see where you're going even one hour before sunrise. Apparently the soldiers stationed to guard the tomb were long gone by the time Mary Magdalene and the other Mary arrived.​

Dawn = The first appearance of light in the sky before sunrise: "the rose-pink light of dawn"​

Matthew 28:1 (KJV)
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Matthew 28:1 (NASB)
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.




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