Ask an Atheist

[RogerTheAtheist]

I wasn't sure where to post this, since many parts of these forums seem to be Christian-only. I have a few questions for Christians and welcome any questions whether or not they're related to mine. Feel free to ask about my views, how I became an atheist, or anything else you'd like to know.

1. What is your view of atheism and atheists?

2. Would you date a non-Christian? An atheist? Would you allow your children to?

3. Do you believe in an age of reason before which children who die automatically go to heaven and after which children become responsible and require salvation in order to enter heaven?

4. Do you believe that every person that has ever lived has been convinced that god is real and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?

5. Do you believe in a literal hell as a place of torture where possibly trillions will spend eternity separated from god?

6. What about post-death salvation? Some Christians seem to believe that those who've never heard about Jesus (meaning #4 would be no) will be given a chance to accept Jesus, most notably JWs. If so, who do you think will be given a second chance?

 

[motherprayer]

1. What is your view of atheism and atheists?
-No different than my view of anyone else. A human is a human lol

2. Would you date a non-Christian? An atheist? Would you allow your children to?
-I'm married, but I guess I would if I was single. I would allow my children to.

3. Do you believe in an age of reason before which children who die automatically go to heaven and after which children become responsible and require salvation in order to enter heaven?
-Hm. Still working this one out. I DO believe there IS one, but I can't figure out from Scripture what it is. Jesus said suffer the little children, for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

4. Do you believe that every person that has ever lived has been convinced that god is real and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?
-Lol no.

5. Do you believe in a literal hell as a place of torture where possibly trillions will spend eternity separated from god?
-I don't know

6. What about post-death salvation? Some Christians seem to believe that those who've never heard about Jesus (meaning #4 would be no) will be given a chance to accept Jesus, most notably JWs. If so, who do you think will be given a second chance?
Not sure about this one either, to be honest. Catholics believe this also, and Mormons. I can't figure out where from Scripture this idea came from.

 

[Eric Hibbert]

1. What is your view of atheism and atheists?

In real life or on message boards? I post on another message board where the atheists are the rudest, most obnoxious people I've ever met and I'm sure, if their parents ever read their posts, they'd be deeply ashamed.

In all fairness to atheists, message boards tend to attract people who are passionate about a subject and the relative anonymity of the internet lends itself to people saying things without realizing it's a real person on the other end.

In real life, the atheists I've met are mostly OK.

2. Would you date a non-Christian?

No, for two reasons:

First, my wife would kill me.

Second, because we would have nothing in common and I doubt a non-Christian woman would put up with many of the things the Bible would require me to ask of her (i.e. abstinance, submission, etc).

An atheist?

No.

Would you allow your children to?

No.

3. Do you believe in an age of reason before which children who die automatically go to heaven and after which children become responsible and require salvation in order to enter heaven?

Yes and no. I don't believe it's a specific age, but more of a level of understanding.

4. Do you believe that every person that has ever lived has been convinced that god is real and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?

I believe the Bible's teaching that every person, even those who have never heard the Gospel, have both the external testimony of creation to tell us there is a God, and the internal witness of the conscience to tell us that we've broken His laws.

5. Do you believe in a literal hell as a place of torture where possibly trillions will spend eternity separated from god (sic)?

Yes, but I don't believe they'll be seperated from God. God is omnipresent. While the Bible doesn't specifically say so, I infer from what I've studied that it will be more a case of God being present, but just out of reach.

6. What about post-death salvation?

Nope. Not Biblical.

Some Christians seem to believe that those who've never heard about Jesus (meaning #4 would be no) will be given a chance to accept Jesus, most notably JWs.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians.

What's more, what does "accepting Jesus" do for anybody? Even if you "accepted Jesus" after death, how would that help you when the Bible never says anything about "accepting Jesus" in either this life or the next?

While I do admit that people tend to have a sense of wonder and curiosity, it's quite a leap to go from "I wonder if anything's out there" to "I bet there's an all-powerful, all-knowing, timeless, spaceless, loving, merciful, benevolent god that has a divine plan and a specific requirement to get into heaven."

Straw man. That's not even remotely what I said.

As for sin, this is a testable claim. A naturalist like myself would say that the holy spirit's tug of guilt is actually the conscience

Perhaps you missed my last post "...and the internal witness of the conscience by which they can know they have broken God's laws (i.e. "guilt")".

if a person is told that something is wrong, it's natural to feel guilty afterward.

And what if they're not told that it's wrong? Aren't there some things we instinctively know are wrong, kind of the same way my dog hides from me when he's done something wrong, even before I know he's done something wrong?

I mean, if two babies are dropped on a desert island and manage to survive to adulthood without any instruction whatsoever in morality or ethics. If one killed the other, wouldn't there be guilt as the result of an inate knowledge that murder is wrong?

Are Catholics?

I'm not trying to avoid your question but, in this case, an honest answer to that question would be a violation of the rules. So, for the sake of this conversation, I'm afraid we'll just have to stick to Jehovah's Witnesses.

Within the large umbrella of Christianity, I've found that most are exclusive and don't consider other branches Christians.

Yeah, I hear this claim from atheists all the time. Of course, there's not a whit of truth to it, but that doesn't stop them from making the claim.

What are your particular views?

Pretty much what the Bible says: repent and receive Christ.

The Protestant view is one must accept Jesus' sacrifice

First of all, you can't have it both ways. You can't say, on the one hand, that there is no unity "within the large umbrella of Christianity" and then say "Protestants believe..." on the other.

Second, where does Protestantism teach this? Do you have any examples from any of the confessions, catechisms, or creeds of Protestantism?

...of children who die before their age of reason and/or less possibly people who never hear about Jesus.

Where does Protestantism teach anything about an "age of reason"?

 

[bling]

I wasn't sure where to post this, since many parts of these forums seem to be Christian-only. I have a few questions for Christians and welcome any questions whether or not they're related to mine. Feel free to ask about my views, how I became an atheist, or anything else you'd like to know.

1. What is your view of atheism and atheists?

It takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian (that is what I think).

2. Would you date a non-Christian? An atheist? Would you allow your children to?

Social dating with the plan of helping them grow the next walk in their spiritual life.

3. Do you believe in an age of reason before which children who die automatically go to heaven and after which children become responsible and require salvation in order to enter heaven?

Yes, but they will not have fulfilled their earthly objective, so that is sad.

4. Do you believe that every person that has ever lived has been convinced that god is real and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?

No, some never reach adult maturity to reason this out.

5. Do you believe in a literal hell as a place of torture where possibly trillions will spend eternity separated from god?

The Bible does teach degrees of punishment and eventual annihilation, so some might be annihilated immediately.

6. What about post-death salvation? Some Christians seem to believe that those who've never heard about Jesus (meaning #4 would be no) will be given a chance to accept Jesus, most notably JWs. If so, who do you think will be given a second chance?

No second chance.


Questions for you:

How would you change if you knew for certain the Christian God did exist?

Do you desire to know the Christian God does exist and if so why?

If there is a Christian God what problem would you have with Him?

 

[KWCrazy]

1. What is your view of atheism and atheists?

The Bible calls them fools. The ones I see posting on Christian message boards are usually among the rudest people around. I tend to think that atheists are liars; they lie to themselves about the non-existence of God when the evidence is all around them. If they commit an offense they still feel guilt. Guilt originated with Adam and Eve gaining the knowledge of good and evil. They still know that everything that exists had to be created somehow, though they may deny that fact even to themselves. Usually they act like they are somehow better educated or more intelligent as if they had special knowledge that the rest of us did not.

2. Would you date a non-Christian? An atheist? Would you allow your children to?

Not seriously, because the issue of faith or lack of it is a major issue in a person's life and if the faith isn't compatible the rest won't be either.
No, and no for the same reason.
However, I think we all know that when our kids are mature enough to date they don't listen to the opinions of the parents.

3. Do you believe in an age of reason before which children who die automatically go to heaven and after which children become responsible and require salvation in order to enter heaven?

Yes. It's called the age of accountability. It's different from person to person. It's the age when a person is old enough to be responsible for the consequence of his actions, so he must also know what those consequences entail.

4. Do you believe that every person that has ever lived has been convinced that god is real and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?

Nope. Most do not.

5. Do you believe in a literal hell as a place of torture where possibly trillions will spend eternity separated from god?

Yes, though I think there are many who are never exposed to the truth who may not have any more accountability than the child who doesn't know either the consequence or the alternatives. I think that not all who die will go to Heaven or Hell. I think many will simply face destruction; death.

6. What about post-death salvation? Some Christians seem to believe that those who've never heard about Jesus (meaning #4 would be no) will be given a chance to accept Jesus, most notably JWs. If so, who do you think will be given a second chance?

No. You have to come to Jesus through faith, and once you find out for an absolute certainty that He is real because you stand in front of Him in judgment you can never have that faith. Faith requires an element of the unknown. If you die having never accepted Christ, you'll likely take your next breath in Hell.

 

[RogerTheAtheist]

I post on another message board where the atheists are the rudest, most obnoxious people I've ever met and I'm sure, if their parents ever read their posts, they'd be deeply ashamed.

Thank you everyone for responding.

I agree that online people can be jerks. I used to go to Yahoo Christian chats before they closed and had some "Christians" there directly attack me and call me atheist scum as soon as I entered. I think that atheists who don't treat theists with respect are embarrassments and a harm to the cause.

Yes and no. I don't believe it's a specific age, but more of a level of understanding.

Yes, the age would be different for each person. So you do believe that children who die before this time automatically go to heaven?

I believe the Bible's teaching that every person, even those who have never heard the Gospel, have both the external testimony of creation to tell us there is a God, and the internal witness of the conscience to tell us that we've broken His laws.

While I do admit that people tend to have a sense of wonder and curiosity, it's quite a leap to go from "I wonder if anything's out there" to "I bet there's an all-powerful, all-knowing, timeless, spaceless, loving, merciful, benevolent god that has a divine plan and a specific requirement to get into heaven."

As for sin, this is a testable claim. A naturalist like myself would say that the holy spirit's tug of guilt is actually the conscience; if a person is told that something is wrong, it's natural to feel guilty afterward. Unless this inner conscience depends on the individual's knowledge (and is entirely a physical process) rather than being a divine revelation by god, a person should feel guilty when sinning even if it isn't known that it's a sin.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians.

Are Catholics? Within the large umbrella of Christianity, I've found that most are exclusive and don't consider other branches Christians.

What's more, what does "accepting Jesus" do for anybody? Even if you "accepted Jesus" after death, how would that help you when the Bible never says anything about "accepting Jesus" in either this life or the next?

What are your particular views? The Protestant view is that one must accept Jesus' sacrifice as payment for their sins and that this salvation is required to enter heaven with the possible exceptions of children who die before their age of reason and/or less possibly people who never hear about Jesus.

 

[RogerTheAtheist]

It takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian (that is what I think).

That depends on how faith is defined. If it's defined as believing in something even if there's no evidence to support it, then atheism is the conclusion that the burden of proof has not been met. Atheists tend to see Christians as having faith without valid evidence, although I imagine that most Christians would disagree, insisting that the complexity of the universe, the bible, and Jesus' life and miracles are evidence for god.

The situation seems to be flipped around when evolution is considered instead of god. In this scenario, YECs dismiss the evidence for evolution, whereas people who accept it can list piece after piece of evidence (DNA, the fossil record, vestigial organs, new strains bacteria, breeding, etc.).

Social dating with the plan of helping them grow the next walk in their spiritual life.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading this as using the relationship (which is perhaps not genuine) in order to lead the person to Jesus, likely resulting in a breakup if they don't convert.

Yes, but they will not have fulfilled their earthly objective, so that is sad.

Do you believe that people die when god decides that it's their time?

No, some never reach adult maturity to reason this out.

What about those that do?

How would you change if you knew for certain the Christian God did exist?

If I knew for certain that he existed, and if it turned out to be a truly loving god (as opposed to the god of the OT), I would be compelled to return that love and to follow him.

Do you desire to know the Christian God does exist and if so why?[/quote]

I desire to know the truth, but I'm convinced that no god exists. I try to be intellectually honest about everything and change my views in light of convincing evidence; if I'm presented with strong evidence for god, I'll be forced to consider his existence.

What is true is more important to me than what I want to be true. I don't want to stop existing after death; my greatest wish is to exist in some form after death (except torture; I'd rather not exist than to spend that existence having the flesh drip from my bones or something equally painful)

, even if it's only wandering as a spirit or to resurrect as a newborn or even a different kind of life form. Yet, all evidence seems to lead to a purely natural reality with nothing after death.

If there is a Christian God what problem would you have with Him?

If the Christian god exists as Protestants believe (this is the version I know best), my problems with him are not revealing himself and his plan to each individual in a way convincing to them, instead letting trillions die without ever having been convinced of the truth; holding imperfect beings to standards of perfection they can't possibly reach; creating a reality where the only two possible fates are eternal paradise and eternal torture; assigning an eternal fate based on a finite period of time; allowing us to be born with a human nature that for reasons beyond our control make us guilty; and for making his "word" so ambiguous that even scholars who spend years studying it come to wildly different conclusions and whose followers have formed over 33,000 denominations with conflicting views.

 

[RogerTheAtheist]

The Bible calls them fools. The ones I see posting on Christian message boards are usually among the rudest people around. I tend to think that atheists are liars; they lie to themselves about the non-existence of God when the evidence is all around them. If they commit an offense they still feel guilt. Guilt originated with Adam and Eve gaining the knowledge of good and evil. They still know that everything that exists had to be created somehow, though they may deny that fact even to themselves. Usually they act like they are somehow better educated or more intelligent as if they had special knowledge that the rest of us did not.

I wouldn't say that I lie to myself about god; I'm pretty sure that there is no god, although I don't completely rule out the possibility because absolute truth and intellectual honesty rarely go hand-in-hand. It's not definite that the universe began to exist; the big bang is the furthest back that can be seen, but the energy and matter in the universe could've existed in some form before that, or the universe could've formed from a multiverse that contains a finite number of universes and a finite amount of total energy and matter. Or a god might exist, but for me there's no compelling evidence for any of these. The lack of evidence for a pre-big bang universe leads me to the conclusion of "I don't know."

However, I think we all know that when our kids are mature enough to date they don't listen to the opinions of the parents.

I've never liked the concept of people telling other people who they can and can't love (I'm not suggesting that you do). I know that parents want what's best for their children and might want their children to only be with someone that they see as responsible and able to make good money as opposed to someone that's into drugs or other illegal activity; but I don't know. I don't know for sure how I'll raise my kids when the time comes. As far as religion, my plan is to raise them to be critical thinkers but not tell them that atheism is true or that all religion is false. I won't love them any more or less if they happen to become atheists, theists, deists, or pantheists.

Nope. Most do not.

Yes, though I think there are many who are never exposed to the truth who may not have any more accountability than the child who doesn't know either the consequence or the alternatives. I think that not all who die will go to Heaven or Hell. I think many will simply face destruction; death.

Do you think it's fair for people to face death or hell for not accepting something they were never informed about?

 

[aiki]

1. What is your view of atheism and atheists?

They're a mixed bag. Some are arrogant, obnoxious and irrational and some are not. I have yet to meet one, however, who was even slightly willing to concede that their perspective had intellectual problems. Mostly, the atheists I've encountered are in a siege mentality, which allows them little if any freedom to think outside their viewpoint.

2. Would you date a non-Christian? An atheist? Would you allow your children to?

Nope. Nope. And nope.

3. Do you believe in an age of reason before which children who die automatically go to heaven and after which children become responsible and require salvation in order to enter heaven?

I don't think there is a universal point in time when every person becomes culpable before God. As has been said, a person's capacity to understand is the determining factor in this matter.

4. Do you believe that every person that has ever lived has been convinced that god is real and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?

No. But as has been pointed out, every person has some awareness of God's existence via Creation and their conscience.

5. Do you believe in a literal hell as a place of torture where possibly trillions will spend eternity separated from god?

More or less. This is what the Bible teaches.

6. What about post-death salvation? Some Christians seem to believe that those who've never heard about Jesus (meaning #4 would be no) will be given a chance to accept Jesus, most notably JWs. If so, who do you think will be given a second chance?

Nope. Not biblical. The Bible does indicate, though, that people will be judged and punished according to their knowledge of God's truth. Those who are sent to hell will not all be punished in exactly the same degree.

Selah.

 

[madetoworship]

1. What is your view of atheism and atheists?

I would like them to come to faith but I don't push them in any which way. I respect them as human beings just like me.

2. Would you date a non-Christian? An atheist? Would you allow your children to?

No to all. It's a personal preference. I just don't see a marriage working with conflicting views - especially when it comes to the nature of our souls, our destiny, and other transcendent topics.

3. Do you believe in an age of reason before which children who die automatically go to heaven and after which children become responsible and require salvation in order to enter heaven?

This is kind of an unclear question. What I think you're asking is whether there was a time when people automatically went to have but now people today need salvation.

God saved whoever came to him in the past and is still doing it today. Who and what they did? I have no clue nor does that bother me. As long as I know how to receive salvation now, I think I'll be fine not knowing.

4. Do you believe that every person that has ever lived has been convinced that god is real and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?

No

5. Do you believe in a literal hell as a place of torture where possibly trillions will spend eternity separated from god?

The word "literal" is a bit tricky to define. My view of hell is that it exist whether in another dimension or not where eternity separate from God is at the very core - eternal torture. Biblical evidence that shows hell will be "torture"is in the very root of the greek word "gehenna", translated as hell in many passages.

6. What about post-death salvation? Some Christians seem to believe that those who've never heard about Jesus (meaning #4 would be no) will be given a chance to accept Jesus, most notably JWs. If so, who do you think will be given a second chance?

This I am not sure of nor am I concerned about. I believe that our time here on Earth we will be given a chance to receive salvation or reject it. I would think God would reveal Himself to us during our lifetime. But, is God's salvation work for certain souls limited by a human's life span? I don't think so.

 

[KWCrazy]

Do you think it's fair for people to face death or hell for not accepting something they were never informed about?

To face death? Yes. Why should they be any different from the beasts of the field who don't know any better either? The wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life. Having never recieved that gift, they have not earned eternal life. I do not believe that someone who never had access to the knowledge of God will go to hell. I believe they will be destroyed. Every living thing dies. The Bible speaks of the second death. It also speaks of destruction. It also speaks of eternal damnation and a lake of fire. The one who has knowledge of the truth and rejects it is more of an affront to God than the man in the wilderness who never heard of Jesus Christ and never had the offering of salvation.

The Bible talks about judgment. If there aren't different sentances why would there be a judgment? I think some will be exalted in Heaven and some will just be there; some will be with God and some will be in "public housing." Some will dwell in outer darkness, some will be consumed in the Hell fire, some will be damed to eternal torment and maybe some will never know of anything but the end of their life. One thing I do know. Sin and darkness will never enter Heaven. The sinner who has no forgiveness for his sins will never be allowed. Without the salvation of Christ there is no forgiveness. The god in which you do not believe won't believe in you either. As you reject Him, so will He reject you for eternity.

It might open your eyes to spend some time with a hospice around people who are facing death. Christians have a much more serene transition, brcause they know that they are on the las corridor to Glory. Most non believers still have that doubt about what might happen, and their mood is considerably different.

If you want to have an eye opening evening, watch some youtube videos of people who experienced Near Death Experiences. Watch their eyes as they tell their stories. Decide for yourself if you think they believe what they saw was true. The statistics regarding those who have glimpsed visions (nobody actually goes and returns) of the other side are dramatic. Nearly all of them are changed forever by the experience.

Dedicate some time to seriously looking for God and I know that you will find Him. Most atheists are afraid to look. What they might find out terrifies them.

 

[ChristianT]

I wasn't sure where to post this, since many parts of these forums seem to be Christian-only. I have a few questions for Christians and welcome any questions whether or not they're related to mine. Feel free to ask about my views, how I became an atheist, or anything else you'd like to know.

1. What is your view of atheism and atheists?

They are "nice people" in real life, and tend to be arrogant when I see them here, but lots of nice atheists come here every now and then

2. Would you date a non-Christian? An atheist? Would you allow your children to?

Nope*
Nope*
Yes**


*I'm already dating a Christian girl
**If they wanted to/fully understood what they wanted

3. Do you believe in an age of reason before which children who die automatically go to heaven and after which children become responsible and require salvation in order to enter heaven?

No, that's unbiblical. However I do trust God's mercy and judgement is perfect.

4. Do you believe that every person that has ever lived has been convinced that god is real and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?

No, universalism (of which this idea would be a part) is counter-biblical.

5. Do you believe in a literal hell as a place of torture where possibly trillions will spend eternity separated from god?

No, it's something more of an eternal "worldview." 'Hell' isn't a place but rather a state of thought; if anything, the unsaved dead will be in the 'hell' side of Hades in agony because of what they have missed out on and chosen.
Meanwhile the saved people shall be in the Paradise side of Hades until the final resurrection and judgement, when all saints will be joined together to live with God forever on earth.

6. What about post-death salvation? Some Christians seem to believe that those who've never heard about Jesus (meaning #4 would be no) will be given a chance to accept Jesus, most notably JWs. If so, who do you think will be given a second chance?

Well, the whole point of the Christian life is reunion with God and being transfigured (resurrected / created anew as in a restored image of God). Christ extends His grace to whomever He wants in whatever way He wants, and I can't say how He extends His grace (or that extent) to anyone outside of following the Gospel.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

I wasn't sure where to post this, since many parts of these forums seem to be Christian-only. I have a few questions for Christians and welcome any questions whether or not they're related to mine. Feel free to ask about my views, how I became an atheist, or anything else you'd like to know.

1. What is your view of atheism and atheists?

2. Would you date a non-Christian? An atheist? Would you allow your children to?

3. Do you believe in an age of reason before which children who die automatically go to heaven and after which children become responsible and require salvation in order to enter heaven?

4. Do you believe that every person that has ever lived has been convinced that god is real and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?

5. Do you believe in a literal hell as a place of torture where possibly trillions will spend eternity separated from god?

6. What about post-death salvation? Some Christians seem to believe that those who've never heard about Jesus (meaning #4 would be no) will be given a chance to accept Jesus, most notably JWs. If so, who do you think will be given a second chance?

Answers...in order :

1. My view of atheism is that it is a personal philosophical desire with the expressed purpose of not wanting a personal theistic Creator to exist.

1.a. My view of an Atheist , is that i used to be One for about 10 years as an adult and im very familiar with it . Today, I dialogue with Atheists both online and in person . I dont have any animousity toward them...I only wish that they were true Seeker Skeptics with open minds instead of with closed hearts.

2. I would not date an atheist for that would violate The Bible , but i would be willing to spend a certain amount of time with one in friendship and could most likely enjoy their company so long as they dont resort to using Gods name in vain or use uncontrolled foul language in my presence.

2.a. I dont have children. But if i did, i would explain that Christians dont date Atheists and take them to the Bible .

3. Yes, i believe in an age of accountability ...as it is often referred to. God in his love and mercy would not permit a child to spend eternity in Hell because they were not at an age to understand that they are Sinners. Its not what we dont know, its what we do know and how we respond to it as far as Gods global plan of salvation is concerned.

4. Yes, i believe every single person who has ever lived and whos mind has had a chance to develop...intrinsically knows that everything around us (and in us) didnt happen by natural causes , by accident, and without a shred of purpose or meaning. As One gets older and more mature, the issue is even clearer to that Person . Even at the tender age of 4-6, a child typically asks their Parents the popular questions of : HOW did all of this get here / WHO made all of this / WHY are we here ? If they believed it was all by accident with no purpose via natural causes, they would never formulate such questions nor have a need to ask them.

5. I totally believe in an eternal place known as Hell because Jesus himself taught it often , the Bible confirms it , and Gods justice demands it . Hell is a choice just like Heaven is --- we choose one or the other and God simply grants what we always wanted while on earth : GreatER distance from God forever, or, GreatER closeness to God forever. Complete fairness .

6. A person must die in the righteous of Christ imputed to his account. Jesus himself warned repeatedly DO NOT die in your sins . There is no second chance beyond this earthly life ; the price has been fully paid for anyone to make it to heaven and if the persons pride will allow it, they can take Gods free undeserved offer of forgiveness of sins so they can secure a good eternity. If there was a second chance, then Jesus would not have had to come and die on the cross for mankind. Immediately after we die physically to this life, we will either experience great joy or great regret...and there is nothing at that point that can change that .

If you ever decide to make your eternity secure, then simply follow the simple steps in my signature which must be done very sincerely and genuinely. Then you can know you have eternal life filled with joy instead of utter never ending regret. Regards.

 

[RogerTheAtheist]

They're a mixed bag. Some are arrogant, obnoxious and irrational and some are not. I have yet to meet one, however, who was even slightly willing to concede that their perspective had intellectual problems. Mostly, the atheists I've encountered are in a siege mentality, which allows them little if any freedom to think outside their viewpoint.

Out of curiosity, do you have any examples in mind of intellectual problems within the atheistic perspective?

No. But as has been pointed out, every person has some awareness of God's existence via Creation and their conscience.

I disagree that people naturally come to the conclusion of a god concept, especially a specific god.

 

[RogerTheAtheist]

It might open your eyes to spend some time with a hospice around people who are facing death. Christians have a much more serene transition, brcause they know that they are on the las corridor to Glory. Most non believers still have that doubt about what might happen, and their mood is considerably different.

If you want to have an eye opening evening, watch some youtube videos of people who experienced Near Death Experiences. Watch their eyes as they tell their stories. Decide for yourself if you think they believe what they saw was true. The statistics regarding those who have glimpsed visions (nobody actually goes and returns) of the other side are dramatic. Nearly all of them are changed forever by the experience.

Dedicate some time to seriously looking for God and I know that you will find Him. Most atheists are afraid to look. What they might find out terrifies them.

I've spent some time at a hospice because my grandma was there for a while, returned home, went back, and died. While I didn't talk to other patients, I did watch her take her last breath. She was a Christian and believed that she'd go to heaven, although she did have many disturbing visions (while on morphine) such as seeing people hanged from the ceiling and my grandpa being kidnapped.

When dreaming or hallucinating, it's natural to see what one thinks about. If you're fully convinced that you'll go to heaven with no doubts, you'll be calm and maybe dream about going to heaven, especially as death knowingly draws near. I sincerely doubt that this is exclusive to Christians, even though Protestantism seems to have one of the strongest assurances of heaven that I've come across.

I don't doubt that people who had NDEs generally believe they had those experiences. I'm sure that there are people that truly believe they were visited by aliens. The problems with NDE testimonies is that the brain was under unusual conditions -- keeping in mind the release of DHT as the brain dies -- as well as the confirmation bias, where few successful accounts of what happened in other rooms drown out the vast majority of cases where inaccurate information was given.

I actually used to be a Christian, so I know what it's like to believe in god and to have a personal relationship with him (which, if he doesn't exist, is actually a one-way relationship). I was saved, baptized, and a very passionate follower for a few years before I finally began to apply critical thinking to religion and no longer push doubts into the back of my mind. If I was spiritually born again as a Christian, I was mentally freed from a cage when I became an atheist; I once was blind, but now I see. Rather than wearing filtered glasses to only find what I'm looking for, I make conclusions based on what I have reason to believe.

 

[RogerTheAtheist]

4. Yes, i believe every single person who has ever lived and whos mind has had a chance to develop...intrinsically knows that everything around us (and in us) didnt happen by natural causes , by accident, and without a shred of purpose or meaning. As One gets older and more mature, the issue is even clearer to that Person . Even at the tender age of 4-6, a child typically asks their Parents the popular questions of : HOW did all of this get here / WHO made all of this / WHY are we here ? If they believed it was all by accident with no purpose via natural causes, they would never formulate such questions nor have a need to ask them.

Why do you believe that people "know" that not everything (or nothing) happened by natural causes? There are demonstrable causes of nearly everything all the way back to the big bang with no supernatural explanations required. Our solar system formed from an accretion disk whose majority of matter formed a central sphere due to gravity, whose force was strong enough for the star to undergo nuclear fusion. The one big unknown is what caused the first life, but once self-replicating life existed, evolution would've had the power to create all life that exists on this planet today. We're pattern-seeking creatures, so when seeing man-made objects and assuming that they were created by people, looking at seemingly-designed life forms, physical structures, and laws of nature might lead one to ask who designed them and why. Yet, I feel that asking who falsely assumes that there was a who. There might be, but this hypothesis is just as in need of evidence as competing ones.

Perhaps it is also a result of pattern-seeking that one can look at the universe from a scientific perspective and see natural causes producing natural effects with no need (and perhaps no room) for supernatural causes. If current and previous life forms are completely explicable with natural causes, why wouldn't the first life be? I can see how this could potentially be intellectually dishonest; even though the pattern suggests that the first life likely also had a natural cause, one shouldn't assert this as absolute truth. It's an unknown, although the strong presence of other natural causes and lack of demonstrable supernatural causes make a naturalistic assumption justifiable.

 

[GrayAngel]

1. What is your view of atheism and atheists?

Each individual is different, but groups may largely share certain characteristics. But then, in many cases, the few and loud are too often the ones who give off the biggest impression. With that in mind, this is my overall impression of atheists.

While atheists claim that they are not against belief in God, but are just skeptical, I don't find this to be the case. Many are very adamantly against Christianity. Not religion in general, because they don't seem to have a problem with minority religions like Islam, just Christianity. Some seem to feel threatened by Christians. Perhaps it's because we hold a strong political influence.

Atheists like to act like they are more knowledgeable of science. Some of them are, but a large number of them are as ignorant of science as they are of the Bible. They also forget that many Christians have been and still are important contributors when it comes to scientific discovery. Being a Christian does not make one ignorant of or opposed to science, and knowledge of science has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

Many of the faults I find with the atheists I meet online are shared on both sides of the fence. I won't pretend otherwise. Both act like they know more than they really do, and neither has any respect for the other.

2. Would you date a non-Christian? An atheist? Would you allow your children to?

No, and no. Being Christian alone isn't enough for me to date someone. It's more than just religion. The person I want in a spouse is someone who would share my values, someone who could help me grow closer to God. If I were to marry a non-Christian, we'd constantly moving in opposite directions, and we'd be working against one another in raising our children.

3. Do you believe in an age of reason before which children who die automatically go to heaven and after which children become responsible and require salvation in order to enter heaven?

There is no age of accountability in the Bible. There is no magical age at which a child suddenly becomes responsible for their sins. However, I do believe that there are children who do not yet understand the concept of good and evil. They do not make choices to sin. These, I believe, will enter Heaven.

In the case of David, he had a child born illegitimately to another man's wife (Bathsheba). As punishment, God took the child from David a few days after his birth. After news of his son's death reached him, he stopped crying and said, "He will not come to me, but I will go to him." Where David was going, he would see his son again.

4. Do you believe that every person that has ever lived has been convinced that god is real and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?

No. Rather, we are all helplessly against the Gospel by default. It's only through the Holy Spirit that any of us could believe and be saved at all.

5. Do you believe in a literal hell as a place of torture where possibly trillions will spend eternity separated from god?

I do not believe in Hell as a place of literal fiery torture. However, it is a real place, and it is not where you want to go. The Bible tells us in several places that it will be worse for some than for others, and Hell will be different for each individual, adjusted to the good and evil they had done in life. Each person receives what they personally deserve, nothing more and nothing less.

6. What about post-death salvation? Some Christians seem to believe that those who've never heard about Jesus (meaning #4 would be no) will be given a chance to accept Jesus, most notably JWs. If so, who do you think will be given a second chance?

No, I don't. In the story of Lazarus, the rich man who entered Hades was not given a second chance. After death is judgement for what one had done in life.

There is no Purgatory, which would hang on works-based salvation and a complete disregard for what the Bible teaches. And the Mormons who believe that everyone enters Heaven unless they murder or reject the call of the Holy Spirit are also wrong, because the Bible says that the road to salvation is narrow.

 

[KWCrazy]

I actually used to be a Christian, so I know what it's like to believe in god and to have a personal relationship with him (which, if he doesn't exist, is actually a one-way relationship). I was saved, baptized, and a very passionate follower for a few years before I finally began to apply critical thinking to religion and no longer push doubts into the back of my mind. If I was spiritually born again as a Christian, I was mentally freed from a cage when I became an atheist; I once was blind, but now I see. Rather than wearing filtered glasses to only find what I'm looking for, I make conclusions based on what I have reason to believe.

Critical thinking? By what standard?
Atheists believe that there is no God and everything in the universe is the result of basic cause and effect in adherance to the laws of nature. The strangest thing about your belief is that you don't think any intelligence created those laws.

If you were really saved and a devout Christian, then you must have experienced an indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If you didn't, you were never saved. You simply went through the motions because you wanted to think you were saved. Here's the question. If you've actually experienced the Holy Spirit, how could you later deny His existence? If not, how could you ever claim to have been saved?

Some drugs cause nasty hallucinations because of the way they react with the brain. Regadrless, it seems as though your grandma was at peace because she knew in her cognitive moments what was on the other side. If you had to face death now, would you be as peaceful? Could you honestly stand before God after having publically denying him?

Let's look at what a lscientific law is. "A law generalizes a body of observations. At the time it is made, no exceptions have been found to a law. Scientific laws explain things, but they do not describe them."
The key words are "no exceptions." There are no exceptions to laws or they are not laws. Matter cannot be created or destroyed.... EVER. All matter is in a state of increasing entropy. NOTHING physical is eternal. How about this one. If something doesn't exist it NEVER exists. Even one violation disproves a law. Makes sense?

I think most NDE's are just wild dreams, but if even ONE instance of a person giving an accurate description of things they could not have otherwise seen is true, then the belief that the soul cannot leave the body is falsified. If, in the history of mankind, ONE miracle ever happened, then the laws of nature CANNOT be the final authority. If even ONE life was completely changed by the presence of the Holy Spirit after accepting the Lord then you cannot continue to deny His existence without lying to yourself.

God is in the world but not OF the world. He created the world as a temporary habitat. It is not meant to be man's god that he should ascribe great power to it. There are over 300 miracles listed in the Bible. If even ONE is true then there can be no intelligent basis for the denial of the supernatural. It's against the law, and unlike man's laws, the laws of the physics cannot be violated; only superceded by a greater force.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

Why do you believe that people "know" that not everything (or nothing) happened by natural causes? There are demonstrable causes of nearly everything all the way back to the big bang with no supernatural explanations required. Our solar system formed from an accretion disk whose majority of matter formed a central sphere due to gravity, whose force was strong enough for the star to undergo nuclear fusion. The one big unknown is what caused the first life, but once self-replicating life existed, evolution would've had the power to create all life that exists on this planet today. We're pattern-seeking creatures, so when seeing man-made objects and assuming that they were created by people, looking at seemingly-designed life forms, physical structures, and laws of nature might lead one to ask who designed them and why. Yet, I feel that asking who falsely assumes that there was a who. There might be, but this hypothesis is just as in need of evidence as competing ones.

Perhaps it is also a result of pattern-seeking that one can look at the universe from a scientific perspective and see natural causes producing natural effects with no need (and perhaps no room) for supernatural causes. If current and previous life forms are completely explicable with natural causes, why wouldn't the first life be? I can see how this could potentially be intellectually dishonest; even though the pattern suggests that the first life likely also had a natural cause, one shouldn't assert this as absolute truth. It's an unknown, although the strong presence of other natural causes and lack of demonstrable supernatural causes make a naturalistic assumption justifiable.

a. How do you get intelligent effects as we have, from non intelligent (natural) causes ?

b. How do you get personality from non personality , incl. logic, reason, rationale, love, discernment, and abstract thought for example ?

c. How did our Laws of physics, math, biology, and chemistry come into being then proceed to work in unison with one another .. in conjunction with over 150 scientifically discovered Life Enabling Constants to which some occupy a 120th decimal point allowable tolerance otherwise we arent here ?

d. How did Darwinnian Evolution provide for only the 4th generation Monarch Butterfly living for a year while its first 3 generations die off after 4-6 weeks...further, how did the 4th generation Monarch know to leave Canada on the EXACT day of the Fall equinox for its long trek to the SAME place in Mexico ... then leave Mexico on the EXACT day of the spring equinox to make the journey back to Canada to its exact former location ?

e. How did blind random mutations provide for the 14 specific and independent chemical changes that occur in the human eye when seeing something for its first time .. before it finally gets registered in the brain ?

f. How did blind random mutations make the human eye / molecular machines / the defense system of the Bombadier Beetle when if any one component is missing it renders the entire system completely inoperative ?

g. What Darwinnian Evolutionary process made the first DNA molecule which has enough specified complex information in it to fill an entire set of encylopedias ? And where does the information come from -- do you know of a Source whereby non intelligence brings forth new informational messages to build ANY object , unit, or system ? Please list.

h. If Darwinnian Evolution is such a proven 'fact' , then why would over 700 of THE worlds top PHD Scientists sign a petition at www.dissentfromdarwin.com saying they have very serious problems with the THEORIES credibility ? Further, why would the following Evolutionists tell us that Darwinnian Evolution has to be believed on BY FAITH ? as follows :

" It is therefore a MATTER OF FAITH on the part of the biologist that
biogenesis (evolution) did occur and he can choose whatever method of
biogenesis happens to suit him personally ; the evidence for what did
happen is not available" --- Evolutionist Prof. G.A. Kerkut of the
University of Southampton. Source : Implications of Evolution. London.
Pergamon Press, 1960, page 150.



" The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that
evolution is based on FAITH ALONE" -- Evolutionist Prof. T.L. Moor .
Origins ? The Banner of Truth Trust, 1988 page 22.



" We Palenontologists have said that the history of life supports (the
story of gradual adaptive change) , all the while really knowing that it
does not" -- Dr. Niles Eldredge. Darwin on Trial. Regnery Gateway,
1991, page 59.


" The record of reckless speculation of human origins is so astonishing
that it is legitimate to ask whether much science is yet to be found in
this field at all" -- Evolutionist Dr. Solly Zuckerman. Darwin on
Trial. 1991. page 82.

From an article in Science Digest Special---

" Scientists who utterly reject Evolution may be one of our fastest
growing controversial minorities ... Many of the scientists supporting
this posiiton hold impressive credentials in science" . -- Educators
Against Darwin. winter 1979, page 94



" I believe that one day the Darwinnian myth will be ranked the
greatest deciet in the history of science "--- Prof. Soren Lovtrup,
Embriologist. Darwinism : The Refutation of a Myth. 1987. page 422.

" The more i examine the Universe and the details of its architecture,
the more evidence i find that the Universe in some sense must have known
we were coming"--- Prof. Freeman Dyson, Physicist from Princeton Univ.
'Disturbing the Universe' . 1979. page 250.



" The more man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events, the
firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of
this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature (than a Creator)"
-- Albert Einstein. His LIfe and Times. page 286.

And finally, the bottom line from an "agnostic" Astronomer (and my
favorite) ----

" For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason,
the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of
ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak and as he pulls
himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of Theologians who
have been sitting there for centuries reading Genesis 1:1 : In the
Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth" --- agnostic Prof. Robert
Jastrow founder of Nasa's Goddard Institute. His book, 'God and the
Astronomers. page 116 ?

i . Finally, what personal benefits do you see for yourself (or for Atheists in general) if there is no personal theistic Creator/Designer/ultimate Moral Accountable entity ? Please list a few. If you prefer, i can list a few which i found for myself back when i was an ardent Atheist.

Thank you.

 

[RogerTheAtheist]

While atheists claim that they are not against belief in God, but are just skeptical, I don't find this to be the case. Many are very adamantly against Christianity. Not religion in general, because they don't seem to have a problem with minority religions like Islam, just Christianity. Some seem to feel threatened by Christians. Perhaps it's because we hold a strong political influence.

What I've found with atheists in the US including myself is that since Christianity is the main religion here and typically the one we left if we were ever religious, it's the one we know most about and are surrounded by. I'm against radical Islam and feel that it's the world's greatest religious threat against peace and religious freedom, but in the US where I live it's not really a personal issue like Christianity is.

Atheists like to act like they are more knowledgeable of science. Some of them are, but a large number of them are as ignorant of science as they are of the Bible. They also forget that many Christians have been and still are important contributors when it comes to scientific discovery. Being a Christian does not make one ignorant of or opposed to science, and knowledge of science has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

True, there are atheists that don't know science, and there are Christians that do. On the topics of evolution and astronomy, however, I very rarely meet Christians that can tell me the basics of these, at least where I live. The only atheists I know tend to at least be working on a master's, so the samples are admittedly uneven.