Why does God not stop the evil?

[Dave Ellis]

Cute.

You have no idea what's involved here, nor will you ever by going about it this way.

Forgetting the Bible, have you ever met anyone who thought the bosnian serbian conflict was good, or somehow "supported" any of the massacres in Africa?

Red Herring.

Answer my question.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Objection: asked and answered. Why not read up on what was discussed before you joined us? Start at maybe page 70. There are multiple discussions going on at the same time and the OP is kind enough to tolerate some side bar discussion; let's not abuse his good nature, eh? The posts I made from around p 70 on (or beginning about post # 690) only address this side bar, so you can skip over a lot w/o missing any of this.

Perhaps because I didn't particularly feel like reading through 70 pages worth of material to see if you might have answered a fairly simple question already.

And given the fact the answer requires less writing than the deflection of the question you gave, I can only imagine you hold both the position that the Bible is correct, and God is Moral, yet genocide or any form of mass killing is immoral.

And now you are faced with a self-contradictory position as the Bible describes God ordering a mass killing that was moral. (I've refrained from using genocide here simply because you'll use that word to try to deflect again).

You must be aware of the hopelessly contradictory position you hold, and you must also be aware there is no way to justify it. So rather than answering, you toss out Red Herrings whenever challenged to try to avoid addressing the actual questions that expose the weakness of your position.

You are arguing from a position of intellectual dishonesty and moral bankruptcy. I would have thought you would have more self respect.

 

[seeking Christ]

[QUOTE=Dave Ellis

 

[seeking Christ]

[QUOTE=Dave Ellis

 

[Tiberius]

Elio, please don't forget my last post...

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Of the sort being considered here in this thread? No.

"9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son."

Kickin' it old school, then. Nothing asinine in that.

 

[Tiberius]

SC, I'd also like to know why you think the term Anachronism applies.

 

[seeking Christ]

Elio, please don't forget my last post...

He seems to not be around for awhile:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7722686/#post62372114


I'm not going to take up his mantle. I see morality as a human construct, and Scripture sharply jars that in every way possible, on purpose. I see life as a journey we are all on together, and philosophical terms to have little practical value. If they actually help you make decisions, then by all means ...

 

[seeking Christ]

"9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son."

Kickin' it old school, then. Nothing asinine in that.

This is extremely different than anything I've seen discussed in this thread. You do of course realize that this sort of thing was typical in Abe's day, right? Expected, even?

And that Isaac lived?

Now how bout you explain what it means for this Abe to be "the father of the faith," how that defines faith as a Christian term, and what the Sabbath means for a Christian.

So easy you can do it in 50 words or less, right? And be clear as a bell on all points, of course.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

He seems to not be around for awhile:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7722686/#post62372114


I'm not going to take up his mantle. I see morality as a human construct, and Scripture sharply jars that in every way possible, on purpose. I see life as a journey we are all on together, and philosophical terms to have little practical value. If they actually help you make decisions, then by all means ...

Of course morality is a human construct. Of course scripture is full of immoral things, on purpose. Life is actually a highway, and I want to ride it all night long. Yes, of course, morals do help us make decisions.

 

[seeking Christ]

SC, I'd also like to know why you think the term Anachronism applies.

Hey, a bit of sincerity?

Ok then.

1) The people to whom this was first recited, (not read to, it was not yet written down) had no concept of genocide. It was not what they were thinking of, and more to the point, what they WERE thinking of was very much distinct.

2) In response to this same issue on this same website I have seen such a wide array of dictionary definitions as to make the term utterly useless. Killing 2 people for any reason? Really? Then Adam Lanza committed genocide, 23 x over.

Except genocide doesn't fit there at all, so we have to throw that out.

3) An old school definition for genocide would be an attempt, successful or not, to wipe a race off the planet. Hikler yes, Abamina-bye-bye (as known by some Iranians) debatable, but the intent is there.

4) Per # 3, that was never the intent. Gotta look into the stories to know that. These are NOT easy! They aren't designed to be understood from a light surface reading, but to be mulled over all day long at least once a year by the whole town all together, requiring 40x times through to begin to get it.

How many here have put in that kind of effort?

 

[seeking Christ]

Life is actually a highway, and I want to ride it all night long.

Out in the wilderness, with Bigfoot if at all possible?

Hey you got any snow out there?

Yes, of course, morals do help us make decisions.

Sure, my understanding of that word is tied in with the whole decision making process. Do philosophical terms and the debates over them have practical value to making decisions? That's what I was attempting to address.

 

[Dave Ellis]

That is not a red herring at all, but is in fact the only relevant anything on the subject of your fascination of the day, which is genocide. You have dismissed any concern with what the Bible says, so my question is all you have left to deal with.

Personally, I have never met anyone who in any way thinks either of these things are good, nor can I imagine doing so. I'm honestly perplexed as to what you're going on about.



Waffling does not become you. You have already clearly stated you have no interest in what the Bible says. And I don't blame you, because if you were ever to take it upon yourself to understand what's going on there, quite a bit of work is involved.

What is your objection to answering simple questions?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Yeah Dave, starting at page 70 really does require reading 70 pages. We're done here.

Your implication was that I need to read all the posts prior to where I entered the conversation to become familiar with every question you might have already addressed.

Prior to you pointing out your response is on page 70, it would have required me to read through 70 pages until I reached my answer. Your assertion is that I should already know the answer prior to your post, which would have required me to do so.

You expose your self to vast ridicule, making such obviously false statements. Go play with your assumptions by yourself.

An either/or question, especially the one I asked of you requires a very short response. How exactly does that expose me to ridicule?

Does it? It seems you are too lazy to even consider that.

It appears you are the one that has been too lazy to contemplate the implications of your beliefs. Not that logic or common sense actually mean anything to you anyway.

You should be aware that you have no idea at all what position I hold, but you aren't. What am I to attribute this lack to, besides your atheism?

Ok, point out whatever part of the following you disagree with:

1) God is Moral
2) The Bible is an accurate reflection of history
3) Mass Killing is Immoral under all circumstances.
4) God ordered the Isrealites to kill all of the Amalekites as described in the bible.

Is there any one of those four points that you disagree with?

What you're saying is that because something exists that you don't already know, it doesn't exist. I will not try to put that phenomenon into words.

I've never attempted to make that argument at all, and assuming you're capable of comprehending written English (which I'm not convinced of), you should know that.

 

[Dave Ellis]

1) The people to whom this was first recited, (not read to, it was not yet written down) had no concept of genocide. It was not what they were thinking of, and more to the point, what they WERE thinking of was very much distinct.

And it's already been explained to you that even if the people had no concept of what a Genocide was, the orders from God (who must have known what a Genocide was), fit the modern definition of Genocide.

Your argument is nonsensical. The fact is God ordered them to kill all the Amalekites and they did so. Who gives a crap if the people were aware of the concept of genocide.... they committed one! That doesn't make it any more moral.

Can you please put forward an argument that isn't completely asinine?

 

[seeking Christ]

Ok, point out whatever part of the following you disagree with:

1) God is Moral

How could you possibly? I mean really. You seem to have never considered what we use the word "God" to mean. Why would He really care what you think is right or wrong, (moral) as if to be answerable to you?

2) The Bible is an accurate reflection of history

Sheer ignorance is the only place this question can come from Dave. Why did you plot 911?

3) Mass Killing is Immoral under all circumstances.

D-Day. That was some pretty MASSIVE killing. Following that was even more massive killing committed by the Allies, which as usual was predominantly US. Was it the right thing for the US to do? (Note that this is still a valid moral question, and anyone should be able to argue both sides of the issue)

Put away your broadbrush strokes, and your over-simplifications. If you can't or won't, don't expect to be able to hold a conversation with me.

4) God ordered the Isrealites to kill all of the Amalekites as described in the bible.

Not at all clear that He did, nor that all of them were slated to be killed, nor that all of them actually were. There is a LOT that you are missing here, and you are being nothing but belligerent about it, so far.

I've never attempted to make that argument at all, and assuming you're capable of comprehending written English (which I'm not convinced of), you should know that.

No you haven't, you just don't realize the consequence of your actions, not having thought it through. I'm WAY past out of patience for that extent of foolishness.

 

[seeking Christ]

And it's already been explained to you that

Yeah we're done here.

 

[Dave Ellis]

When will you stop using crystal meth?

Oh, that's not a reasonable question? Hmmm ...

That's mature.

Now can you please address my points?

 

[Dave Ellis]

How could you possibly? I mean really. You seem to have never considered what we use the word "God" to mean. Why would He really care what you think is right or wrong, (moral) as if to be answerable to you?

Red Herring.

Sheer ignorance is the only place this question can come from Dave. Why did you plot 911?

Red Herring and an Ad Hominem

D-Day. That was some pretty MASSIVE killing. Following that was even more massive killing committed by the Allies, which as usual was predominantly US. Was it the right thing for the US to do? (Note that this is still a valid moral question, and anyone should be able to argue both sides of the issue)

Put away your broadbrush strokes, and your over-simplifications. If you can't or won't, don't expect to be able to hold a conversation with me.

Justified point, so I will edit my point to Mass killing of innocent civilians is wrong at all times.

Not at all clear that He did, nor that all of them were slated to be killed, nor that all of them actually were. There is a LOT that you are missing here, and you are being nothing but belligerent about it, so far.

So you are of the opinion that the Bible could contain some inaccurate information in it?

No you haven't, you just don't realize the consequence of your actions, not having thought it through. I'm WAY past out of patience for that extent of foolishness.

Will you drop the self righteous crap already? It's people like you that inspire people like me to argue against your religion.

 

[seeking Christ]

Justified point, so I will edit my point to Mass killing of innocent civilians is wrong at all times.

Still doesn't even BEGIN to address what you think you are, nor do you have any inkling of how to do so. Go ahead and squirm, little wiggle worm!

It's people like you that inspire people like me to argue against your religion.

Exactly who do you think you're fooling? You've been so "inspired" for quite some time already, w/o me.