Philosophy of Forgiveness

[brightlights]

What is forgiveness?

Does it exist?

 

[Max S Cherry]

What is forgiveness?

Does it exist?

Good question, and yes, I believe it exists.

In fact, my faith is anchored in it, and I pray to God for forgiveness multiple times a day...yeah, I mess up all the time!

As for what it is, I believe it to be the removal of a trespass.

 

[juvenissun]

What is forgiveness?

Does it exist?

Depends on how you define it.

 

[quatona]

What is forgiveness?

Does it exist?

Depends on what you mean by "exist".
It seems to me that indeed people often feel wronged, hold grudges and eventually will forgive.

 

[Eudaimonist]

What is forgiveness?

Presumably, giving up hurt feelings and any desire for revenge from some transgression against oneself.

Does it exist?

Does the decision to forgive exist? Yes.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[juvenissun]

Presumably, giving up hurt feelings and any desire for revenge from some transgression against oneself.



eudaimonia,

Mark

Does that need to be defined by a behavior? Would a particular behavior show that the feeling is not hurtful any more? Or the behavior does not matter?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Does that need to be defined by a behavior?

"Behavior" is your word. I'm not a Behaviorist, so perhaps I should stay away from the word "behavior" to avoid confusion.

I consider it a mental act. If mental acts are "behaviors" to you, then it's a behavior. The need to see it as a behavior is simply a recognition of reality.

Would a particular behavior show that the feeling is not hurtful any more?

Show? No, the mental act would be the cause of the feeling diminishing.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Going Merry]

Everyone is different in how they handle the issue. But that isn't the question on whether so and so will do it or not.

But if someone sins against me and I feel angry about it then I have a choice.
I can either:
a) Be angry at them when they come to mind, or
b) Let my anger go and harbor no ill feelings over said situation anymore.

Personally I have found that I usually make small vows to my self "I have forgiven them, so I will never bring it up ever again" I view forgiveness like that. You forget it.

 

[juvenissun]

"Behavior" is your word. I'm not a Behaviorist, so perhaps I should stay away from the word "behavior" to avoid confusion.

I consider it a mental act. If mental acts are "behaviors" to you, then it's a behavior. The need to see it as a behavior is simply a recognition of reality.



Show? No, the mental act would be the cause of the feeling diminishing.


eudaimonia,

Mark

So, I would never know if you forgave me or not. Right?
How do I know what you "showed" me is your "mental act"?

 

[Eudaimonist]

So, I would never know if you forgave me or not. Right?

I'll assume that you don't have the ability to read minds, so you would never know for certain. However, if I said that I was sorry, and I treated you better after that, that would be an indication good enough for most people.

How do I know what you "showed" me is your "mental act"?

(Show? Why are you mentioning the word "show"? I never said anything about showing a mental act.)

Why should it matter what you know? All that matters is what is taking place.

Have you ever felt yourself consciously letting go of anger through a decision not to hold on to it any longer? That's the mental act I mean.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[32k]

What is forgiveness?

Does it exist?

1.) a concept used to ease the conscience of an individual who has been persuaded to desire it after committing a perceived 'wrong'.

2.) We'll see....now won't we?

 

[juvenissun]

I'll assume that you don't have the ability to read minds, so you would never know for certain. However, if I said that I was sorry, and I treated you better after that, that would be an indication good enough for most people.



(Show? Why are you mentioning the word "show"? I never said anything about showing a mental act.)

Why should it matter what you know? All that matters is what is taking place.

Have you ever felt yourself consciously letting go of anger through a decision not to hold on to it any longer? That's the mental act I mean.


eudaimonia,

Mark

After all, what you said above is still a "behavior" of forgiveness.
You forgive others. The forgiveness is more significant to others than to you. You need to let them know your forgiveness.

Back to the behavior you said above. If someone show that to you, do you really believe they forgave you? On the other hand, if someone did less than what you said to you, would you think they may not forgive you yet?

I might do what you said to people who offended me. However, if I could, I might still seek revenge even I am doing what you suggested. This is not an uncommon situation. Isn't it? Politicians usually hide their dagger behind their smiling face.

 

[mmksparbud]

a lot of offenses to us personally, the perpetrator may not even be aware of it. I've known several people (in and out of the church) that have taken offense at something a person said and they were angry at that individual for years over a remark that the listener actually misunderstood, or the comment was not even meant to be about them, but about someone else. So, the offender has no idea that they need to ask for forgiveness.
Holding on to real, or imaginary hurts does no good, it only injures ourselves and the offender may not even be aware that you are angry at them!--Boy--this is getting convoluted!!
Often, we have to forgive someone who has never asked for forgiveness, but we do it to get rid of hostile feelings. Praying for someone who has delibrately hurt you, and never will ask for forgiveness, is healing to our souls. It is not condoning, it is letting go, and letting God handle the situation and praying that the person will give themselves over to the Lord--It's hard to stay angry at someone you're praying for.

 

[Eudaimonist]

After all, what you said above is still a "behavior" of forgiveness.

There are two related behaviors of forgiveness. A inwardly mental act and a outwardly physical act.

The physical act is only what you see. The mental act is not something you see, except as expressed in the physical act.

You forgive others. The forgiveness is more significant to others than to you. You need to let them know your forgiveness.

Forgiveness is at least as significant to myself. You as a Christian should be familiar with that concept. I would be letting go of my anger and desires for revenge. That's significant.

Back to the behavior you said above. If someone show that to you, do you really believe they forgave you?

Yes, almost certainly.

I would only have doubts if I knew them beforehand to be untrustworthy, or if their body language didn't match their words.

On the other hand, if someone did less than what you said to you, would you think they may not forgive you yet?

I would have no way of knowing.

I might do what you said to people who offended me. However, if I could, I might still seek revenge even I am doing what you suggested. This is not an uncommon situation. Isn't it? Politicians usually hide their dagger behind their smiling face.

Someone might be duplicitous. So what?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

After all, what you said above is still a "behavior" of forgiveness.

No. It´s a behaviour to let others know that he has forgiven them. His forgiveness is independent of this behaviour.

You forgive others. The forgiveness is more significant to others than to you.

I don´t think so.

You need to let them know your forgiveness.

I would like to let them know and to believe it. I have no way of doing so if they aren´t ready to believe me.

Back to the behavior you said above. If someone show that to you, do you really believe they forgave you? On the other hand, if someone did less than what you said to you, would you think they may not forgive you yet?

Generally, I am not so concerned with others forgiving me.

I might do what you said to people who offended me. However, if I could, I might still seek revenge even I am doing what you suggested. This is not an uncommon situation. Isn't it? Politicians usually hide their dagger behind their smiling face.

Well, then you haven´t forgiven, in the first place.

I am having problems understanding what your point is or what the problem is you want to point out.

 

[juvenissun]

No. It´s a behaviour to let others know that he has forgiven them. His forgiveness is independent of this behaviour.

I don´t think so.

I would like to let them know and to believe it. I have no way of doing so if they aren´t ready to believe me.


Generally, I am not so concerned with others forgiving me.


Well, then you haven´t forgiven, in the first place.

I am having problems understanding what your point is or what the problem is you want to point out.

My point is that forgiveness has to be defined by each individual person in each different case. My forgiveness to a person on a particular case is most likely different from your forgiveness to the same person on that case. If I said I forgive you. It probably means a different thing than what you think about my forgiveness. If you said you forgive me, I would probably never know what do you really mean by that.

That is the nature of human forgiveness.

 

[juvenissun]

There are two related behaviors of forgiveness. A inwardly mental act and a outwardly physical act.

The physical act is only what you see. The mental act is not something you see, except as expressed in the physical act.

Forgiveness is at least as significant to myself. You as a Christian should be familiar with that concept. I would be letting go of my anger and desires for revenge. That's significant.



Yes, almost certainly.

I would only have doubts if I knew them beforehand to be untrustworthy, or if their body language didn't match their words.



I would have no way of knowing.



Someone might be duplicitous. So what?


eudaimonia,

Mark

I have my standard of forgiveness (action and mental). If I forgave you on something, do you know what would I do to you as a response to your fault?

Never.

To me, forgiveness from a person only means that I would probably not get an immediate revenge from that person. Even that could not be guaranteed.

 

[Eudaimonist]

To me, forgiveness from a person only means that I would probably not get an immediate revenge from that person. Even that could not be guaranteed.

Not everyone can be trusted, but it sounds like you have a deep rooted distrust of everyone.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

My point is that forgiveness has to be defined by each individual person in each different case. My forgiveness to a person on a particular case is most likely different from your forgiveness to the same person on that case. If I said I forgive you. It probably means a different thing than what you think about my forgiveness. If you said you forgive me, I would probably never know what do you really mean by that.

That is the nature of human forgiveness.

No, that´s the nature of human communication.