Why do people try to obey the law when it's not possible

[disciple1]

Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
John chapter 15 verse 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as your self.
Everyone sins.
I only posted this for the people who think they obey the law when they don't.

 

[robinvanpersie]

In the Luke gospel it explains further that everything that needed to be fulfilled regarding the son of man needed to be fulfilled .

You're probably referring to Luke 24:44 which says: Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

Not sure if you know this, but Messiah is coming back a second time to fulfill many things that was prophesied and spoken that have YET to be fulfilled.
The fact that He's coming back in and of itself is proof that not EVERYTHING has been accomplished.
Acts 3:18-21 explains this PERFECTLY:
18. "But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.
19. "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
20. and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
21. whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

Messiah fulfilled EVERYTHING concerning His first coming.
He is however coming back to fulfill EVERYTHING concerning His second coming. The restoration of all things is kind of a big deal when it comes to EVERYTHING being accomplished

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You're probably referring to Luke 24:44 which says: Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

Not sure if you know this, but Messiah is coming back a second time to fulfill many things that was prophesied and spoken that have YET to be fulfilled.
The fact that He's coming back in and of itself is proof that not EVERYTHING has been accomplished.
Acts 3:18-21 explains this PERFECTLY:
18. "But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.
19. "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
20. and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
21. whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

Messiah fulfilled EVERYTHING concerning His first coming.
He is however coming back to fulfill EVERYTHING concerning His second coming. The restoration of all things is kind of a big deal when it comes to EVERYTHING being accomplished

Well you seem to have everything figured out . but you didn't respond to my whole post . hope you have a nice day .

 

[robinvanpersie]

Well you seem to have everything figured out . but you didn't respond to my whole post . hope you have a nice day .

and an additionally somewhat irrelevant point to speak of law and the prophets when their age is over (luke 16:16)

Hold the phone. Do you understand this verse to suggest that the Law of God and the Prophets and their prophecies have “run their course” and are no longer necessary at the time that John’s head was on the plate???

Perhaps that question alone will make you think twice about what you are saying here.
Messiah hadn’t even died when John’s head was on the plate. Messiah went on to teach the correct way of following the Law of God, He continued fulfilling prophecy after prophecy. Basically ALL He did throughout His ministry was fulfill, teach and do what the Law of God and the Prophets directed and prophesied for Him to do. That’s without even getting into the apostles constant usage of the Law of God to teach valuable lessons, and CONSTANT re-iteration of the Prophets to verify Truth.

In fact Revelations 19:10 tells us that the very testimony of Messiah is the spirit of Prophecy. Without the Torah (God’s Law) and the Prophets it is impossible for us to know and verify who the real Messiah is. In fact Yeshua Himself contantly used the Law and the Prophets to show others who He really was. So for you to even suggest that verse 16 of Luke 16 states that the Holy Law of God and the Prophets are no longer valid, or relative is to discount most of the Scriptures.

technically .. it's still there .. for transgressors .. but for those who bear the fruit of the spirit .. against such there is no law .

Common misinterpretation of Gal 5:3. You are only looking at ONE of the MANY purposes for the Law of God, and a purpose for the unbeliever at that. Do you truly believe that the Law of God holds no value in the life of the BELIEVER?

 

[disciple1]

Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ so that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
Galatians chapter 4 verse 21-31
Tell me you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? For it is written that Abraham had two sons,one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written: "be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband. Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does the Scripture sat? Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

 

[robinvanpersie]

and an additionally somewhat irrelevant point to speak of law and the prophets when their age is over (luke 16:16) . technically .. it's still there .. for transgressors .. but for those who bear the fruit of the spirit .. against such there is no law .

Acts 24:14
"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets"

Can you say amen to the above statement today?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hold the phone. Do you understand this verse to suggest that the Law of God and the Prophets and their prophecies have “run their course” and are no longer necessary at the time that John’s head was on the plate??? Perhaps that question alone will make you think twice about what you are saying here.

Yes .. the law is obsolete as the letter to the Hebrews says clearly. Jesus said on the cross . it is finished .. meaning .. paid in full . In the act of saving us Jesus nailed the written code, the ordinances, the law to the cross. (colossians 2) if the law is still in effect you are still dead in your sins and Christ died in vain .. as Paul said to the galatians.

Messiah hadn’t even died when John’s head was on the plate. Messiah went on to teach the correct way of following the Law of God, He continued fulfilling prophecy after prophecy. Basically ALL He did throughout His ministry was fulfill, teach and do what the Law of God and the Prophets directed and prophesied for Him to do. That’s without even getting into the apostles constant usage of the Law of God to teach valuable lessons, and CONSTANT re-iteration of the Prophets to verify Truth.

I read scripture .. c'mon .. peer pressure doesn't convince anyone. just because i have a different conclusion than you doesn't mean i [removed hyperbolous joke] don't understand basic stuff.

In fact Revelations 19:10 tells us that the very testimony of Messiah is the spirit of Prophecy. Without the Torah (God’s Law) and the Prophets it is impossible for us to know and verify who the real Messiah is. In fact Yeshua Himself contantly used the Law and the Prophets to show others who He really was. So for you to even suggest that verse 16 of Luke 16 states that the Holy Law of God and the Prophets are no longer valid, or relative is to discount most of the Scriptures.

Thank you . yes . the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. I bet you've read the prophets and noticed everything prophesied was contained in the law. that's how they knew what curse was going to happen when. back then prophecy pointed to the fulfillment of the law .. the ultimate fulfillment of this is Jesus Christ.

Common misinterpretation of Gal 5:3. You are only looking at ONE of the MANY purposes for the Law of God, and a purpose for the unbeliever at that. Do you truly believe that the Law of God holds no value in the life of the BELIEVER?

The law is presented as a replacement of the holy spirit . therefore, if we have the holy spirit, our fruit surpasses any need of the law.

Acts 24:14
"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets"

Can you say amen to the above statement today?

most certainly. i understand the scriptures in terms of their geometry. the law time has passed . the time for love to become complete in us has come.. and only the holy spirit working inwardly can accomplish that.

as is written in the bible .. apart from the law sin is dead .. so why would we want to revive sin?

 

[robinvanpersie]

Yes .. the law is obsolete as the letter to the Hebrews says clearly.

Question: at what exact point did the Law become obsolete?

Jesus said on the cross . it is finished .. meaning .. paid in full

It is finished is in reference to the sacrifice He came do pay on our behalf. It is finish absolutely does not mean the Holy Law and Word of My Father is now finished and obsolete. It’s almost laughable to suggest that God gave His people His Holy Law to instruct them in the set apart way that they should walk, only to send His Son to make that same Holy Law extinct. And for what? Because of our wickedness? God’s Law is perfect (Psalm 19:7), it’s our hearts that needs changing.

If you look at all the New Covenant passages such as Jer. 31 and Ez 36, the common theme is the changing NOT of the Law of God but rather of the hearts so that we may follow, obey and walk according to His Holy Torah. This can’t happen unless our heart is circumcised. This is why Paul in Romans 3:31 tells us that BY NO MEANS do we make void the Law of God upon salvation, rather we ESTABLISH it!

 

[robinvanpersie]

In the act of saving us Jesus nailed the written code, the ordinances, the law to the cross. (colossians 2)

What was nailed to the cross was the list of offenses, our sins, not God’s Holy Word. It’s almost blasphemous to purport that God would nail His Word to the cross. And for what purpose? Why would the Holy Law of God need to be nailed to the cross? The Law of God is not what we needed salvation from. It was our dire condition as slaves of sin. We needed to be redeemed from the condemnation of our lawlessness.

if the law is still in effect you are still dead in your sins and Christ died in vain .. as Paul said to the galatians.

Again you are looking at the Law from the perspective of unbelievers. The Law of God in the life of the believer is something to be desired, sweeter than honey, perfect, holy, righteous, true, good, a light to our path, to be meditated on day and night, delighted in and loved. Messiah didn’t die to free us from the gift of the Father to His children.

Thank you . yes . the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. I bet you've read the prophets and noticed everything prophesied was contained in the law.

What? He will place His feet on the Mt. of Olives? Where’s that in the “Law”? Besides, the point is mute, simply because all the prophecies about Messiah have not yet come to pass.
“Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.” - Zech. 14 Unless of course you believe that this has already come to pass.

Let me make it simple. If the above prophecy concerning the Messiah has NOT yet come to pass, the Law of God cannot possibly pass away (more accurately not even the smallest stroke of the Torah of God can pass away). [[Unless of course He was lying]]

 

[Carmella Prochaska]

 

[disciple1]

Exodus chapter 20 verse 10
but the seventh day is a Sabbath to tho Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.
Exodus chapter 35 verse 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.
So if you want to follow the Sabbath you can't have your stove on or refrigerator, because that would cause people to work, or do you just want to keep a little of the Sabbath, which brings me to my original post.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[robinvanpersie]

Exodus chapter 20 verse 10
but the seventh day is a Sabbath to tho Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.
Exodus chapter 35 verse 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.
So if you want to follow the Sabbath you can't have your stove on or refrigerator, because that would cause people to work, or do you just want to keep a little of the Sabbath, which brings me to my original post.

What? My stove and refrigerator is a person? OH NO!

 

[robinvanpersie]

The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.

36. "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
37. And He said to him, " `you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.”
38. "This is the great and foremost commandment.
39. "The second is like it, `you shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
40. "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Do you believe that the ENTIRE Torah of God and the Prophets hang and depend on these two commandments?

 

[disciple1]

Exodus chapter 20 verse 10
but the seventh day is a Sabbath to tho Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.
Exodus chapter 35 verse 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.
So if you want to follow the Sabbath you can't have your stove on or refrigerator, because that would cause people to work, or do you just want to keep a little of the Sabbath, which brings me to my original post.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.
You love God by loving your neighbor as yourself.
You might want to read Matthew chapter 25 verse 31 to the end of the chapter.
And I don't know why you want to preach the law when you don't obey it.

 

[robinvanpersie]

Exodus chapter 20 verse 10
but the seventh day is a Sabbath to tho Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.
Exodus chapter 35 verse 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.
So if you want to follow the Sabbath you can't have your stove on or refrigerator, because that would cause people to work, or do you just want to keep a little of the Sabbath, which brings me to my original post.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.
You love God by loving your neighbor as yourself.
You might want to read Matthew chapter 25 verse 31 to the end of the chapter.
And I don't know why you want to preach the law when you don't obey it.

You have yet to show me how I'm NOT keeping God's Torah.
The refrigerator argument holds no (cold) water.

 

[disciple1]

What's a torah.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they decive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10 If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point there guilty of breaking all of it.
Romans chapter 5 verse 20
The law was added so the tresspass would increase.

 

[robinvanpersie]

What's a torah.

Psalm 119.

1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they decive themselves and the truth is not in them.

[1 John 2:3-6]
3. By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5. but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6. the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7. Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.

Romans chapter 5 verse 20 The law was added so the tresspass would increase.

Another one who only sees one purpose of the Law? Do you agree with any part of Psalm 119?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Question: at what exact point did the Law become obsolete?

according to the Hebrews a testament only becomes ratified at the death of a testator. the one replaced the other.

It is finished is in reference to the sacrifice He came do pay on our behalf. It is finish absolutely does not mean the Holy Law and Word of My Father is now finished and obsolete. It’s almost laughable to suggest that God gave His people His Holy Law to instruct them in the set apart way that they should walk, only to send His Son to make that same Holy Law extinct. And for what? Because of our wickedness? God’s Law is perfect (Psalm 19:7), it’s our hearts that needs changing.

It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. (Jeremiah 31:32)

Those who have violated my covenant and have not fulfilled the terms of the covenant they made before me, I will treat like the calf they cut in two and then walked between its pieces. (Jeremiah 34:18)

If you look at all the New Covenant passages such as Jer. 31 and Ez 36, the common theme is the changing NOT of the Law of God but rather of the hearts so that we may follow, obey and walk according to His Holy Torah. This can’t happen unless our heart is circumcised. This is why Paul in Romans 3:31 tells us that BY NO MEANS do we make void the Law of God upon salvation, rather we ESTABLISH it!

It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. (Hebrews 8:9)

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
(Jeremiah 31:31-36)

So what is the law of God?

God is love. therefore the law of God is to love God with your whole being .. and to love your neighbour as yourself. To love others as Christ has loved you essentially. There is no other debt except to love one another.

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. (Romans 13:8)

The debt you are proposing to burden me and other people with .. is much like the parable of the unmerciful debtor. I have no such debt .. but you impose it on me .. but all that happens is God placing you back in prison until you pay it off yourself .. what Christ did for you. Heed the parables and James, who taught .. those who judge without mercy .. will receive judgment without mercy .. and mercy triumphs over judgment.

What was nailed to the cross was the list of offenses, our sins, not God’s Holy Word. It’s almost blasphemous to purport that God would nail His Word to the cross. And for what purpose? Why would the Holy Law of God need to be nailed to the cross? The Law of God is not what we needed salvation from. It was our dire condition as slaves of sin. We needed to be redeemed from the condemnation of our lawlessness.

But God did nail his word to the cross .. the living word .. Jesus Christ . Jesus replaced the function of the law. this is why it is called good news, law empowers sin .. but God has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and called us into the kingdom of the son he loves .. and in what Jesus did, we are free from the obligations of the previous covenant, because Jesus through his blood ratified the new one.

Again you are looking at the Law from the perspective of unbelievers. The Law of God in the life of the believer is something to be desired, sweeter than honey, perfect, holy, righteous, true, good, a light to our path, to be meditated on day and night, delighted in and loved. Messiah didn’t die to free us from the gift of the Father to His children.

or perhaps you are looking in the mirror .. and you are reading the bible in your carnality .. what matters it? God judges .. let us examine what the bible says.

What? He will place His feet on the Mt. of Olives? Where’s that in the “Law”? Besides, the point is mute, simply because all the prophecies about Messiah have not yet come to pass.
“Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.” - Zech. 14 Unless of course you believe that this has already come to pass.

Red herring . i said nothing about eschatology or his feet .. or the mount of olives .. moving on .

Let me make it simple. If the above prophecy concerning the Messiah has NOT yet come to pass, the Law of God cannot possibly pass away (more accurately not even the smallest stroke of the Torah of God can pass away). [[Unless of course He was lying]]

So let me understand this .. God is subject to being faithful to the interpretation of flawed humans of a book .. that has undergone numerous translations and generations and geographical transitions and removed culturally from its historical context ... i.e. your interpretation of this book canonized by men who didn't know Jesus or the apostles in person passed down through the centuries .. determines God's faithfulness?

God is faithful whether you misinterpret the bible or not .. whether the scribes are lying as in the time of Jeremiah or not . God is just faithful . forever and ever .

This is the nature of the new covenant . it is written on our minds and hearts .. we just know it . God makes it clear to us using many things .. as a popular Timothy verse says regarding scripture .. it is "useful" . understanding its use is helpful in getting maximum output of fruit.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:7)

 

[Alive_Again]

God writes His law on our hearts, but it is up to us to do it. It is not automatic. In fact, it is a deliberate walk. Your flesh is the easy route. That's why the wide path leads to destruction. If you're not born again you're automatically on the wide path. If you're led by the Spirit, you have the opportunity to believe and walk and not fail the grace of God.

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. You can be willing and still decide to go to a bar tonight have "have a few". That would not please God. Your spirit would rather praise the Lord and do something "spiritual", but your flesh if you don't press in and praise the Lord will win out every time. It takes the grace of God to overcome your flesh and if you put God first by getting into prayer and private worship, He'll give you overcoming power to rule over your flesh.

We can't get by on the fact that the spirit is willing and that God chooses to instruct us on the inside because if we harden ourselves through disobedience, you won't hear the promptings clearly. Over time you can become oblivious to the Spirit of God and people live in the "comfort zone" where they excuse their own works while their fruit is completely lacking.

It is our fruit that tells the honest tale. If you're not walking in agape love it's because you're walking in your own strength.