Noah’s Flood Confirmed...?

[TLK Valentine]

I no longer believe that, but I do believe the earth was a tropical paradise before the Fall.

Why tropical? Why not Temperate or even Arctic? Winter Wonderland, and all that...

 

[AV1611VET]

Gen: 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Uh huh, and birds come from water and fly in heaven.

Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

The waters (ocean) under the firmament (atmosphere) are the waters mentioned in Genesis 1:20.

Notice the birds fly above the earth, not above the firmament (atmosphere).

The Flood waters, however, were taken above the firmament (into outer space).

In short, the birds flew above the earth, while the Flood waters were taken above the firmament.

 

[CabVet]

Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

The waters (ocean) under the firmament (atmosphere) are the waters mentioned in Genesis 1:20.

Notice the birds fly above the earth, not above the firmament (atmosphere).

The Flood waters, however, were taken above the firmament (into outer space).

In short, the birds flew above the earth, while the Flood waters were taken above the firmament.

Oh, if "above the firmament" means space, what does this mean then:

Genesis 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

The sun and the moon are inside the atmosphere then?

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh, if "above the firmament" means space, what does this mean then:

Genesis 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

The sun and the moon are inside the atmosphere then?

There are three firmaments mentioned in the Scriptures:

1. F1 = atmosphere = 0-62 miles up.
2. F2 = space = 62 miles - edge of universe.
3. F3 = Heaven proper.

Firmaments are containment areas, populated with their respective objects, and are also known as "heavens."

That's why Genesis 1:1 says "heaven," while Genesis 2:1 ... after creation is finished ... says "heavens."

 

[CabVet]

There are three firmaments mentioned in the Scriptures:

1. F1 = atmosphere = 0-62 miles up.
2. F2 = space = 62 miles - edge of universe.
3. F3 = Heaven proper.

Firmaments are containment areas, populated with their respective objects, and are also known as "heavens."

That's why Genesis 1:1 says "heaven," while Genesis 2:1 ... after creation is finished ... says "heavens."

That was not my question. The Bible clearly says that the sun and the moon are in the firmament. You said space is above the firmament and that is where flood waters came from. If the sun and the moon are in the firmament, where is above the firmament? Where in the Bible (verse) are the differences between those firmaments described?

 

[AV1611VET]

That was not my question.

Okay.

The Bible clearly says that the sun and the moon are in the firmament.

F2

You said space is above the firmament...

Space = F2

... and that is where flood waters came from.

The Flood rain came from F2, via F1.

In other words, it came from ocean water that was removed from the earth and sent into space (F2).

If the sun and the moon are in the firmament, where is above the firmament?

The sun and the moon are in F2, above F2 is F3.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your three miles of water in the "firmament" is still enough to more than cook everything on the face of the Earth.

By the way, if your god could do all of this why did he do it? Wouldn't it have been easier for him to just strike the human population dead? Why punish the innocent animals along with the supposedly evil men?

For a nonscientific view on Noah's Ark (careful, strong language):

Ricky Gervais, Science (3) - YouTube

 

[AV1611VET]

Your three miles of water in the "firmament" is still enough to more than cook everything on the face of the Earth.

Remember Shadrach, Meschach and Abednego?

By the way, if your god could do all of this why did he do it?

It was a judgement call that ended the Dispensation of Conscience and started the Dispensation of Human Government.

Wouldn't it have been easier for him to just strike the human population dead?

Yes, but then the people who died would have had no chance to make what is called a "deathbed conversion."

By drowning them, they had plenty of time to repent and cry out for salvation.

As the saying goes: There are no atheists in foxholes.

I'm sure many of them got saved before they drowned.

Why punish the innocent animals along with the supposedly evil men?

The 'innocent animals' were probably infested with disease.[/quote]

 

[CabVet]

Okay.

F2

Space = F2

The Flood rain came from F2, via F1.

In other words, it came from ocean water that was removed from the earth and sent into space (F2).

The sun and the moon are in F2, above F2 is F3.

You forgot the last question. Here it is again:

Where in the Bible (verse) are the differences between those firmaments described?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Remember Shadrach, Meschach and Abednego?

Yes, we already covered this mistake of yours.

It was a judgement call that ended the Dispensation of Conscience and started the Dispensation of Human Government.

Strange, they left that out of my Bible.

Yes, but then the people who died would have had no chance to make what is called a "deathbed conversion."

By drowning them, they had plenty of time to repent and cry out for salvation.

You mean your god tortured people for no point at all?

As the saying goes: There are no atheists in foxholes.

And that is a very black lie.

I'm sure many of them got saved before they drowned.

There is nothing in the OT about people being "saved" that is a post Jesus event.

The 'innocent animals' were probably infested with disease.

[/QUOTE]

Uh Huh. Right. Why would animals be any more diseased then than now?

 

[AV1611VET]

Where in the Bible (verse) are the differences between those firmaments described?

As far as I know, they aren't.

If however you mean, where are their differences implied, then I can answer that.

We call those expressed truths and implied truths.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, we already covered this mistake of yours.

Strange, they left that out of my Bible.

You mean your god tortured people for no point at all?

And that is a very black lie.

There is nothing in the OT about people being "saved" that is a post Jesus event.

Uh Huh. Right. Why would animals be any more diseased then than now?

You really make it easy to ignore you, you know that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You really make it easy to ignore you, you know that?

Likewise I am sure.

If you could come up with some serious responses you would get the same. When you spew pure nonsense you are lucky to get even what little I gave you.

 

[CabVet]

As far as I know, they aren't.

If however you mean, where are their differences implied, then I can answer that.

We call those expressed truths and implied truths.

According to your interpretation, which, of course, is "the truth", right?

 

[AV1611VET]

Likewise I am sure.

If you could come up with some serious responses you would get the same. When you spew pure nonsense you are lucky to get even what little I gave you.

Considering you didn't know who Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego were; I would surmise most of what I say ... if not all ... is 'pure nonsense' to you.

I'll bet Ontological Subordination and Ontological Reductionism are " pure nonsense" to you too, aren't they?

 

[AV1611VET]

According to your interpretation, which, of course, is "the truth", right?

This is what we call basic doctrine, CabVet.

You can take it or leave it ... the choice is yours, but insulting the teacher is out of line; even for you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Considering you didn't know who Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego were; I would surmise most of what I say ... if not all ... is 'pure nonsense' to you.

I'll bet Ontological Subordination and Ontological Reductionism are " pure nonsense" to you too, aren't they?

What, I had to look up one of the myths in the Bible and that somehow counts against me? Remember besides being exceptionally immoral and unjust your god is a braggart too. If he supposedly did something he always tried to get good press for it.

And yes, let's here what these terms of yours supposedly mean. I would be willing to give an odds on bet that they are pure nonsense too.

 

[CabVet]

This is what we call basic doctrine, CabVet.

You can take it or leave it ... the choice is yours, but insulting the teacher is out of line; even for you.

I am not insulting anybody. This is basic doctrine according to your interpretation. If you google "three firmaments", the second page is this:

Four firmaments - CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science

Which describes FOUR firmaments according to the same Bible that you use. And even in there, the description of the firmaments is different than yours. One of their firmaments is the solar system, which you don't even mention.

There is no "basic doctrine". There are only conflicting personal interpretations.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is what we call basic doctrine, CabVet.

You can take it or leave it ... the choice is yours, but insulting the teacher is out of line; even for you.

AVET, are you trying to get me into trouble here? You should know that your moderators here have no sense of humor at all.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am not insulting anybody. This is basic doctrine according to your interpretation. If you google "three firmaments", the second page is this:

Four firmaments - CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science

Which describes FOUR firmaments according to the same Bible that you use. And even in there, the description of the firmaments is different than yours. One of their firmaments is the solar system, which you don't even mention.

There is no "basic doctrine". There are only conflicting personal interpretations.

Although I don't agree with this picture as far as how far up the Flood waters went, here is an excellent montage of the three firmaments:

SOURCE

You may disagree with it all you want, but you can't disagree with the fact that we're talking basic doctrine here.