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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
If God asks....
- Thread starter Skavau
- Start date
Elioenai26 said:
And god murdered the entire world in Noah's day. Genocide doesn't get much clearer.
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No matter what God does you would always call it holy.Elioenai26 said:
No matter what God does you would always call it righteous.
No matter what God does you would always call it just.
No matter what God does you would always call it merciful.
No matter what God does you would always call it compassionate.
No matter what God does you would always call it loving.
The words mean nothing to you. They're just meaningless descriptors. If God commanded genocide you would call it holy, righteous, just, merciful, compassionate and loving.
That the only reason you are against genocide is because God has not told you to do it. That genocide to you isn't even actually wrong, just forbidden. All that is really wrong to you is doing contrary to what God says.
Unless of course, God orders it. Then it is right.
You're not doing this 'objective' thing right, y'know.
It is not remotely pointless. Intent is not mythical. The reasons why people think the way they do are important. That you consider humanity as mere tools for God and would genocide it if commanded to is important. It is also important on the exact same point that you believe that all non-Christians are to be tortured in the afterlife for not believing. These anti-social and outright hateful viewpoints infect are the product of corrupt values, and it shows.
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Nonsense.
You currently worship a God that you believe will torture people for eternity for not believing a certain way. You seem apparently willing to reconcile your supposed disdain for torture. How is it unthinkable for me to suppose you would find some way to rationalise genocide?
Would this be the same God who you claim will torture me for eternity because I'm not saved?
Sorry, I'm not sold either. Pull the other one apologist.
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E
Elioenai26
Guest
Basically yes. Thanks for summing it up for me.
We can sit here and say "what if all day", hypotheticals are not really that great in trying to get your point across.
I would not have a concept of right and wrong if God had not made it possible for me to know the difference.
God would never order genocide, so what is your point again?
Who said humans were mere tools? I certainly did not.
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Elioenai26
Guest
No I do not. I am sorry. You must have me confused with someone else.
I disdain torture as well as genocide.
I know of no such God at all.
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Elioenai26 said:Basically yes. Thanks for summing it up for me.
We can sit here and say "what if all day", hypotheticals are not really that great in trying to get your point across.
I would not have a concept of right and wrong if God had not made it possible for me to know the difference.
God would never order genocide, so what is your point again?
Who said humans were mere tools? I certainly did not.
So you are permitted to dictate what god will and will not do? You order god's actions? God answers to you?
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Elioenai26 said:No I do not. I am sorry. You must have me confused with someone else.
I disdain torture as well as genocide.
I know of no such God at all.
So now you claim god condemns no one to hell?
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So, my point entirely.Elioenai26 said:Basically yes. Thanks for summing it up for me.
I disagree strongly. The may the point precisely. You've already conceded it anyway, so you're splitting hairs. You would call anything God perfect no matter what it was.
This is actually a separate point. You could argue that God provided us for our empathy and our altruism and thus argue he is responsible for our moral standards but this is separate from this discussion. This is about how you would respond if God did something that was morally questionable. You've answered depressingly that you would applaud and carry it out if necessary.
Also it is of note that your concept of right is solely obedience towards God. Your concept of wrong is conversely disobedience towards God. The acts are just means to an end to that.
You don't get to put limits on God. God could do what he wants and you would approve. This includes genocide. That is my point.
First of all your suggestion of me putting words in your mouth is amusing since you as a matter of habit routinely put words in the mouths of atheists and by extension my mouth.
Secondly it is a consequence of what you believe. If God ordered humanity wiped out, you would accept it.
Untrue. You're on record for attempting to justify the necessity of an eternal hell that includes the permanent torment or torture for non-Christians.No I do not. I am sorry. You must have me confused with someone else.
Except of course, if God does it. #continuingtomissthepoint
Your dishonesty is unbecoming. You cannot just pretend you have not argued for this before.
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He's playing semantics. He will claim people condemn themselves to hell and that hell is not actually torture, but torment. Still ignoring the fact though that does not improve anything. God will still be allowing to exist a set of conditions that condemn billions of innocent people to an absurd and sadistic fate for what they think. He would still be responsible for where they were and Elioenai would still be defending it as "holy, righteous, just, merciful, compassionate, loving".
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Elioenai26 said:Samuel and Noah??
I am not understanding you.
Please stop playing stupid. It makes you look like a fool. God murdered all of mankind in Noah's day. Samuel pointed out that god ordained genocide.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Genocide. Read it and weep.
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mandelduke
Newbie
I am not going to defend the living God to a bunch of Godless heathens, he don’t need my help. But I will give you something to think about. Every person that lived on this earth before Jesus was born, had a chance to accept Christ.
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
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