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My Ice Core Chronology Challenge

RickG

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And I am talking about the ability to sequence the layers in a linear fashion. Very difficult.

I think you need to source the paper I cited. CFA has been around for a couple of decades, but new instrumentation and techniques make it very easy and with a high degree of resolution.


I have no cause to be careful. Blunders are the best way to learn new information.
Just saying. I do actually read the papers I cite, not just the abstracts.

Only what I read.
:)

The sequence is difficult to discern. I'll dig out the report details if I get a chance.
It's fully available and free online. http://epic.awi.de/18575/1/Kau2008b.pdf

I can cite a lot of papers that utilize the method but the above paper is specifically about the new improved CFA unit and describes in detail how it works and its capabilities. :)
 
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Tomk80

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I think you need to source the paper I cited. CFA has been around for a couple of decades, but new instrumentation and techniques make it very easy and with a high degree of resolution.


Just saying. I do actually read the papers I cite, not just the abstracts.

:)

It's fully available and free online. http://epic.awi.de/18575/1/Kau2008b.pdf

I can cite a lot of papers that utilize the method but the above paper is specifically about the new improved CFA unit and describes in detail how it works and its capabilities. :)
Also, that something is difficult does not necessarily make it inaccurate. It may require careful training and measurement, but when these are provided and adhered to difficult tasks can be performed with high accuracy.
 
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SkyWriting

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I think you need to source the paper I cited. CFA has been around for a couple of decades, but new instrumentation and techniques make it very easy and with a high degree of resolution.
Just saying. I do actually read the papers I cite, not just the abstracts.

And I don't always do so to avoid bias in my claims. I honestly provide information that I believe supports my claims. The information I link to does not always match my own conclusions. I am a generalist that takes multiple sources into account and don't buy into everything I read. And I don't buy into all the material I may link to.



It's fully available and free online. http://epic.awi.de/18575/1/Kau2008b.pdf
I can cite a lot of papers that utilize the method but the above paper is specifically about the new improved CFA unit and describes in detail how it works and its capabilities. :)

But not it's limitations? Then the info is garbage. Let me offer a less sterilized view from reality.

" However they also give evidence of stratigraphic disturbances affecting at least some of the fast variations. However, the role of stratigraphic disturbances cannot be settled until ice flow modellers can explain the kind and the mechanisms of such disturbances.This will be a difficult task, especially for the very short cold periods where the ice layer with completely different characteristics is only about 0.2 m thick."

"Particularly, dating of the ice present in the GRIP core under the 54 m increment below 2900m displaying disturbed stratigraphy is very difficult. However, the uncertainty on the age of the oldest glacier ice just above the silty ice does not affect the interpretation of the basal ice from the GRIP core as given here. It can be assumed that the Greenland Ice Sheet was also developed during the interglacials preceding the Eemian since the climate during these periods was less warm than that of the Eemian. "

"When Ca is low, the background acidity is fairly constant throughout the core, suggesting a fairly stable combination of source emissions, transport and uptake during these periods. This conclusion is tempered by difficulties in understanding the air/snow relationship for acidic species (e.g. nitric acid) in particular. "

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/greenland/summit/document/finalrpt/gripfinl.txt
 
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RickG

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And I don't always do so to avoid bias in my claims. I honestly provide information that I believe supports my claims. The information I link to does not always match my own conclusions. I am a generalist that takes multiple sources into account and don't buy into everything I read. And I don't buy into all the material I may link to.

That's all well and good, it's just that occasionally, some of the sources you link to are well outside the scientific community. In saying that you don't buy into all the material you link to, just what is your criteria for buying or not buying into that material?

I have criteria as well for accepting material I read. I stick with credible scientific organizations and institutions that are well respected within the scientific community. In the peer review literature, I check the number of citations a paper has received and review the papers which cited the original to get a perspective of what other scientists say about the research. I also stay withing the realm of credible journals, there are some in which the reviewers are not always experts in the fields they review. I will also occasionally communicate with an author when I need clarification or additional information. Most authors of published peer review literature are glad to provide such information. Having an academic background at the graduate level in the area doesn't hurt either. :)

But not it's limitations? Then the info is garbage. Let me offer a less sterilized view from reality.
Offer a less sterilized view from reality? Why in the world would you want to abandon reality?

" However they also give evidence of stratigraphic disturbances affecting at least some of the fast variations.
Sky, no one says the entire length of ice cores obtained are perfect. Of course they contain stratigraphic disturbances (anomalies). For a number of reasons there are disturbances where little to no information can be derived. That is not the fault of the instrumentation and also why multiple cores are drilled and compared.

However, the role of stratigraphic disturbances cannot be settled until ice flow modellers can explain the kind and the mechanisms of such disturbances.This will be a difficult task, especially for the very short cold periods where the ice layer with completely different characteristics is only about 0.2 m thick."
It would only be fair to finish out the statement, wouldn't it. ;)
This will be a difficult task, especially for the very short
cold periods where the ice layer with completely different
characteristics is only about 0.2 m thick. Hope remains that
much can be learned about the Eemian climate from the existing
two cores. Ultimately, just as these cores were needed to validate
the rapid oscillations already observed in the Camp Century and
Dye3 cores, a new core, where the Eemian period is farther above
bedrock, will be needed to give a final answer.
"Particularly, dating of the ice present in the GRIP core under the 54 m increment below 2900m displaying disturbed stratigraphy is very difficult. However, the uncertainty on the age of the oldest glacier ice just above the silty ice does not affect the interpretation of the basal ice from the GRIP core as given here. It can be assumed that the Greenland Ice Sheet was also developed during the interglacials preceding the Eemian since the climate during these periods was less warm than that of the Eemian. "

"When Ca is low, the background acidity is fairly constant throughout the core, suggesting a fairly stable combination of source emissions, transport and uptake during these periods. This conclusion is tempered by difficulties in understanding the air/snow relationship for acidic species (e.g. nitric acid) in particular. "

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/greenland/summit/document/finalrpt/gripfinl.txt
So really Sky, what is your point? Are you trying to suggest from one of the earliest cores drilled in Greenland where the technology was not as robust then as it is now somehow negates today what is known with today's technology and methods?
 
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RickG

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9144447-large.jpg
 
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DennisTate

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Okay Young Earthers. Let's see your reasons why you think ice core chronology doesn't work. :wave:

Excellent question RickG!

I still remember Mr. Al Gore's question from An Inconvenient Truth regarding the ice being 650,000 years old on Antarctica or Greenland....one or the other!
 
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DennisTate

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Old earth....gap theory for me....a lot happened between the original creation and the time when it was necessary for God to take seven days and repair the mess that was made during the first attempt for one group of politicians to attempt to take over the throne of the Creator!!!


Dr. Richard Eby


Jesus paused again.

"My book tells of the time when Lucifer's rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father's throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed "adversary' of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God's other creations. In my book we call this disharmony "sin', because it defies God's will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.
 
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AV1611VET

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Old earth....gap theory for me....a lot happened between the original creation and the time when it was necessary for God to take seven days and repair the mess that was made during the first attempt for one group of politicians to attempt to take over the throne of the Creator!!!
I see you use "politicians" as I use "scientists." ^_^
 
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RickG

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I see you use "politicians" as I use "scientists." ^_^

Which doesn't make any of your anti-science arguments in the least valid. :p

So AV, do you still deny the physical evidence left by God's creation? Man didn't lay down those annual and seasonal layers of ice.
 
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AV1611VET

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So AV, do you still deny the physical evidence left by God's creation?
What physical evidence?

QV please: 1

Creatio ex nihilo leaves no evidence behind.
 
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DennisTate

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I see you use "politicians" as I use "scientists." ^_^

Good point......but if the Cyclic Model of the Universe is the most accurate, then God is a Scientist/Inventor who planned and then choreographed an essentially infinite number of Big Bang like events over infinite time in the past.

If God always existed....what was God doing previous to the creation of four dimensional space - time?

I lean toward Bosonic String Theory for philosophical reasons so I believe God was inventing 25th, then 24th, then 23...and on and on down in vibrational level...to seventh and sixth and fifty and finally four dimensional space -time.
 
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AV1611VET

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Good point......but if the Cyclic Model of the Universe is the most accurate, then God is a Scientist/Inventor who planned and then choreographed an essentially infinite number of Big Bang like events over infinite time in the past.

If God always existed....what was God doing previous to the creation of four dimensional space - time?

I lean toward Bosonic String Theory for philosophical reasons so I believe God was inventing 25th, then 24th, then 23...and on and on down in vibrational level...to seventh and sixth and fifty and finally four dimensional space -time.
If you can call God a Scientist/Inventor, can I call Him a Politician/Senator?
 
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DennisTate

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If you can call God a Scientist/Inventor, can I call Him a Politician/Senator?

Interesting question!

I would answer yes because it does clearly state that he has 24 elders whose advice God apparently actually listens to??!!

God also answers our prayers.....so in a sense the ushering in of the era of Messiah where everybody actually knows God....depends to an enormous extent on what we do and say and think??!!

Psalm 139 reveals that the thoughts of God toward King David were impossible to number....I have to wonder if this was because if David had a bad day and got discouraged and went off to look over the balcony at what was going on on the rooftops of other homes....some pretty serious negative consequences could follow for millions of lives.

If the theory that some of the lost tribes of Israel migrated to the British Isles is true...then the promise of the sword no departing from the house of David has been fulfilled partly in the continual clan and national warfare that has been the case during much of our history??!!


Jeremiah, Ireland, and the Dynasty of King David

Astonishing as it may seem, the British Monarchy is descended from the lineage of ancient king David of Israel. British-Israel people say that the prophet Jeremiah transferred the royal line via king Zedekiah’s daughters, but no evidence has substantiated this theory. However, there IS a connection – even more mysterious and phenomenal – involving a daughter of king David himself.

William F. Dankenbring

www.triumphpro.com/jeremiah-ireland-david.pdf
 
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