A question for the faithful.

[madaz]

If anyone examines the Koran, they will find that it is not an accurate record of history at all.

If anyone examines the bible they will find that it is not an accurate record of history at all.

But that doesn't prove the bible is false.

 

[Elioenai26]

If anyone examines the bible they will also find that it is not an accurate record of history at all.

Care to provide evidence for this assertion?

But that doesn't prove the bible is false.

Yes it would prove it to be false.

 

[Elioenai26]

If you had read the NT yourself you would have known it fails to address these questions, what else can you offer?

Care to substantiate this statement?

 

[Elioenai26]

So what you're saying is you have no idea where this tomb you speak of is?

I said that if you are so concerned about finding the truth, then be about searching for it. Why would you ask me about the truth when you are firmly persuaded that I do not possess it?

 

[Dave Ellis]

I said that if you are so concerned about finding the truth, then be about searching for it. Why would you ask me about the truth when you are firmly persuaded that I do not possess it?

I am under the impression that you do not possess it because I have asked you at least three times to provide the evidence that you claim to have, and you've danced around the question.

Where is the tomb?

Once you can show me an exact location, then please substantiate the rest of the story.

 

[LionofJudahDK]

3) How do you know he rose from the dead? There are many other (more plausible) explanations why a body would be missing from a tomb.

In THIS PARTICULAR case....there is none.
1: "He wasn't REALLY dead, only badly hurt, and he recovered."
I'm sure I don't need to explain why this is BS when looking at what actually happened prior to, and during the Crucifixion.

2: "The Apostles stole the body".
Yeah...sure....without waking the guards, the same Apostles who couldn't believe their eyes and ears when hearing the news of the Ressurection, and who went from cowering in the dark to boldly proclaiming....those fishermen managed to roll away the stone and steal the body right under the nose of the Roman guard.....sure.....And a monkey can type the collected works of Shakespeare in the first attempt if given a typewriter.

Do I need to go on?

 

[Davian]

Your point is?

You get utility from your particular religion, do you not?

 

[Elioenai26]

I am under the impression that you do not possess it because I have asked you at least three times to provide the evidence that you claim to have, and you've danced around the question.

Where is the tomb?

Once you can show me an exact location, then please substantiate the rest of the story.

My dear Mr. Ellis, when I told you to go, go to the tomb, look and see, I meant not that you should travel to Jerusalem and search for the acrosolia of Joseph of Arimathea, but rather that you should investigate the claims of the empty tomb. Now I have and always will encourage anyone that has the means, to visit the holy land, it would be hard to come away from those lands without being in someway affected. But going there, I am happy to tell you, will not be necessary for you to arrive at the conclusion that Christ has risen bodily from the dead, and this with great assurance! If physically visiting the tomb was necessary in determining the veracity of the resurrection claims, then only those who could make the pilgrimage there would be privy to the evidence.

Thanks be to God, He has provided other means of arriving at the conclusion that we can be sure beyond a reasonable doubt that the resurrection was an actual historical event supported by multiple lines of evidence.

 

[Elioenai26]

You get utility from your particular religion, do you not?

My relationship with Jesus Christ is the source of all that is good, all that is pure, all that is right in my life. He is the source of my strength and my love, my light, and my very life itself. If you wish to call this "utility", then you may do so.

 

[LionofJudahDK]

If you had read the NT yourself you would have known it fails to address these questions, what else can you offer?

Wait....HOW does the NT not address the question of whether Jesus rose from the dead, or not??

 

[Dave Ellis]

In THIS PARTICULAR case....there is none.
1: "He wasn't REALLY dead, only badly hurt, and he recovered."
I'm sure I don't need to explain why this is BS when looking at what actually happened prior to, and during the Crucifixion.

2: "The Apostles stole the body".
Yeah...sure....without waking the guards, the same Apostles who couldn't believe their eyes and ears when hearing the news of the Ressurection, and who went from cowering in the dark to boldly proclaiming....those fishermen managed to roll away the stone and steal the body right under the nose of the Roman guard.....sure.....And a monkey can type the collected works of Shakespeare in the first attempt if given a typewriter.

Do I need to go on?

You're forgetting many other possible options. For example:

3: The story is a fabrication

 

[Dave Ellis]

My dear Mr. Ellis, when I told you to go, go to the tomb, look and see, I meant not that you should travel to Jerusalem and search for the acrosolia of Joseph of Arimathea, but rather that you should investigate the claims of the empty tomb. Now I have and always will encourage anyone that has the means, to visit the holy land, it would be hard to come away from those lands without being in someway affected. But going there, I am happy to tell you, will not be necessary for you to arrive at the conclusion that Christ has risen bodily from the dead, and this with great assurance! If physically visiting the tomb was necessary in determining the veracity of the resurrection claims, then only those who could make the pilgrimage there would be privy to the evidence.

Thanks be to God, He has provided other means of arriving at the conclusion that we can be sure beyond a reasonable doubt that the resurrection was an actual historical event supported by multiple lines of evidence.

Well then, start me off.... Rather than talking about the multiple lines of evidence that exist, why not provide me with that evidence?

 

[madaz]

Wait....HOW does the NT not address the question of whether Jesus rose from the dead, or not??

Well an empty tomb is evidence of.......an empty tomb, nothing more , nothing less.

So please demonstrate to us how you can address these three questions below using info exclusively from the NT.

1) Where is the empty tomb?
2) How do you know it was Jesus's Tomb, and he was ever placed there?
3) How do you know he rose from the dead?

 

[Elioenai26]

Well an empty tomb is evidence of.......an empty tomb, nothing more , nothing less.

So please demonstrate to us how you can address these three questions below using info exclusively from the NT.

1) Where is the empty tomb?
2) How do you know it was Jesus's Tomb, and he was ever placed there?
3) How do you know he rose from the dead?

You have made our task pretty simple and straight forward. You have not even asked for extra-biblical corroborating testimony. You have simply asked for NT testimony. So this will be straightforward and I will use material primarily from the internet because it is easily accessible to all of us.

 

[madaz]

Care to provide evidence for this assertion?

Sure, its all in the bible, lets start with genesis, read the story, then calculate the age of earth. Compare the biblical age of earth with real age. The margin of error too enormous to simply dismiss as minor historic innacuracy.

 

[madaz]

You have made our task pretty simple and straight forward. You have not even asked for extra-biblical corroborating testimony. You have simply asked for NT testimony. So this will be straightforward and I will use material primarily from the internet because it is easily accessible to all of us.

Please provide the evidence that has been requested from you. NT testimony is merely hearsay. Address the questions!

 

[Elioenai26]

Care to provide evidence for this assertion?

Sure, its all in the bible, lets start with genesis, read the story, then calculate the age of earth. Compare the biblical age of earth with real age. The margin of error too enormous to simply dismiss as minor historic innacuracy.

Ok. We can discuss either this or the resurrection. If you want to discuss the above I would be happy to, but a new thread will have to be started for the resurrection.

 

[Davian]

My relationship with Jesus Christ is the source of all that is good, all that is pure, all that is right in my life. He is the source of my strength and my love, my light, and my very life itself. If you wish to call this "utility", then you may do so.

And this utility exists, even in the absence of you demonstrating that your religion is true to others?

 

[madaz]

Certainly. There is the possibility, even though I do not believe it is the case, that Christianity is false.
However, Christianity and islam and rabbinical Judaism cannot all be true. One, two, or all of them MUST be wrong.

Elioenai made that point much more eloquently than I did.

Thank you for answering.

 

[madaz]

it needs be, otherwise the human would violate the good principles, let alone the fact that God can punish all humans who follow(practise) the "beastly(666)" religion, e.g. without vaunt (myself), before years i was a guest in many different denominations, and when at one point i understood that the most vain work is to follow them, i forsook them all and began to seek That One Who really is the true God, and so i has met the only true Lord - Jesus Christ Himself

Blessings

Thank you for answering the question.