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A tiptoe through TULIP...

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guuila

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:)

C'mon..those 8 verses are pretty quick to read, and pretty easy to understand. They aren't confusing or ambiguous in the least. Any honest reader could see what Paul is talking about.

Rom 12:1-8
(1) I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
(2) Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
(3) For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
(4) For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function,
(5) so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
(6) Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;
(7) if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;
(8) the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.


If something is "holding you back" and keeping you from acknowledging what it seems you deep down know to be true, you should be alarmed.

The truth sets free sister.

Popcorn_decepticon.gif
 
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guuila

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Well, 312 views so far and no sign of the usual suspects.

I honestly thought that this would stimulate debate (which is why it's in the Debate section - Doh!). So far, only one brave nay-sayer. Remarkable.

Thank God for MotherPrayer's genuinely seeking mind.

884 views on mine and so far... nothing. I guess it's true - you can't defeat what the Bible says.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7679639/
 
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Skala

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Well, 312 views so far and no sign of the usual suspects.

I honestly thought that this would stimulate debate (which is why it's in the Debate section - Doh!). So far, only one brave nay-sayer. Remarkable.

Thank God for MotherPrayer's genuinely seeking mind.

I don't think many non-reformed people visit this particular subforum. I'd like to see what happens if you posted this in the Apologetics and/or Soteriology forums, though :D
 
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crimsonleaf

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I don't think many non-reformed people visit this particular subforum. I'd like to see what happens if you posted this in the Apologetics and/or Soteriology forums, though :D
Yeah, I wondered. Which is why I've been "advertising" it elsewhere. Plus the fact that it will come up under "New Posts", which is how I use the forum, and I guess I thought others might too.

Griff, can this be moved? Is that a possible solution?
 
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Arcoe

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Anything you do to try to please God or merit grace from God is a work.

So you say trying to please God is meriting grace from Him? Is it not in your heart to try to please Him?

Were you not created in Christ Jesus for good works? It is said, those in the flesh cannot please God, do you think maybe you can please God (or merit grace) being in the Spirit?
 
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Arcoe

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I agree with Skala (no surprise there). Anything we do in order to obligate God to complete a transaction is a work.

Were you not created in Christ Jesus for good works? Do you think it is obligating God if you do good works for which you were created?
 
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Arcoe

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We are saved to do good works, not the other way round.

Is is not doing good for which each person will be given eternal life?

Romans 2:
6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
 
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Eddie L

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Is is not doing good for which each person will be given eternal life?

Romans 2:
6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

Any rewards I receive due to my works will be laid at the feet of Jesus, whose work purchased me and brought forth the grace that empowered me to do anything that is worthy. His grace is what provides love in the heart of his people, and that love is the fuel for our works.
 
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Arcoe

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Any rewards I receive due to my works will be laid at the feet of Jesus, whose work purchased me and brought forth the grace that empowered me to do anything that is worthy. His grace is what provides love in the heart of his people, and that love is the fuel for our works.

How do you lay eternal life at the feet of Jesus? This is the reward for doing good, if you read the above passages carefully. How does one receive the reward of eternal life if they do not do good?

The reward for not obeying the truth is wrath and indignation. Do you obey the truth from yourself? How can anyone who does not obey (that is, do good) receive eternal life?

I haven't come across the passage which says grace provides love in our hearts. Maybe you can help me out here. It may be there, but I haven't seen it.

Thank you for your response.
 
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Eddie L

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How do you lay eternal life at the feet of Jesus? This is the reward for doing good, if you read the above passages carefully. How does one receive the reward of eternal life if they do not do good?


How does one do good without the Spirit of God? Obedience is wrought from the heart, and without the fruit of the Spirit in your heart, you have no source of love to draw from.

I haven't come across the passage which says grace provides love in our hearts. Maybe you can help me out here. It may be there, but I haven't seen it.
The Spirit's work in us is an act of grace. Love is not possible without the Spirit of God. God IS love, and the love in us that motivates us to obedience is a fruit of the Spirit.
 
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motherprayer

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The reward for not obeying the truth is wrath and indignation. Do you obey the truth from yourself? How can anyone who does not obey (that is, do good) receive eternal life?

I think a better question would be "How does one do good without a true understanding of Christlove?"

"Obey" is an interesting word, and has many "Christian" interpretations. The Catholics feel that taking contraceptives is not doing good. Does that disqualify a believer from Heaven? The Fundamentalists say that women wearing pants is not doing good. Would that send a believer to hell? The Messaianic Jewish say that eating pork is sinful. Does that make a believer unsaved?

The only way to receive the gift of eternal life is to accept Christ as Lord and Saviour. Once one has done that, gratitude for what He accomplished for us should make them desire to please Him. Conversely, pleasing Christ can sometimes mean losing friends, or getting in trouble with the church. I believe that pridefulness is sin. I don't, however believe that prideful people will burn.
Grace is a beautiful thing that need only be accepted to work in a person. It is the work of Grace that causes humility, and the understanding that even when we are right, we are often wrong.
 
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Arcoe

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I think a better question would be "How does one do good without a true understanding of Christlove?"

"Obey" is an interesting word, and has many "Christian" interpretations. The Catholics feel that taking contraceptives is not doing good. Does that disqualify a believer from Heaven? The Fundamentalists say that women wearing pants is not doing good. Would that send a believer to hell? The Messaianic Jewish say that eating pork is sinful. Does that make a believer unsaved?

The only way to receive the gift of eternal life is to accept Christ as Lord and Saviour. Once one has done that, gratitude for what He accomplished for us should make them desire to please Him. Conversely, pleasing Christ can sometimes mean losing friends, or getting in trouble with the church. I believe that pridefulness is sin. I don't, however believe that prideful people will burn.
Grace is a beautiful thing that need only be accepted to work in a person. It is the work of Grace that causes humility, and the understanding that even when we are right, we are often wrong.

"How does one do good without a true understanding of Christlove?"

Do you truly understand the love of Christ? If so, you should be full of good works. Do you love Christ? Then Jesus said to keep His commandments. How does one love Jesus if he/she doesn't keep or obey His commandments?

Contraceptives, wearing pants, and eating pork isn't mentioned in the two most important commandments we are to obey. And all the other commandments hang on these two.

You say it is the grace of God which that causes humility; however, the Bible says God gives grace to the humble. So, which comes first, grace or humility?

Thanks for your response.
 
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Arcoe

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How does one do good without the Spirit of God? Obedience is wrought from the heart, and without the fruit of the Spirit in your heart, you have no source of love to draw from.

The Spirit's work in us is an act of grace. Love is not possible without the Spirit of God. God IS love, and the love in us that motivates us to obedience is a fruit of the Spirit.
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So you see the need of the Spirit of Truth to do good. How can one obey from the heart unless he first remove the evil within?

Love may motivate to obedience, but man must first decide of himself to obey, or love fades into nothing. Do you not agree that obedience comes from within you, and you must do this from yourself? The Spirit of Truth can call, draw, probe, and motivate you to obey, but until you decide from yourself to obey, the Spirit's probing is fruitless.
 
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