did Judas actually cast out demons

[true2theword]

Saul also "ran out of oil."

It's a parable, an analogy.

The oil is faith. The foolish virgins ran out of faith because it was counterfeit faith, as did those in Lk 8:13,
who received the word with joy but had no root (saving faith). They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away, because their faith is counterfeit.

The wise virgins did not run out of faith because it was the true saving faith of rebirth.

In the faith,
Clare

Oh you switched! now the oil nolonger represents the Holy Spirit it represents (Faith)........I'm glad your willing to change your mind, it shows you have the ability to learn, but I'm afraid we don't see any doctrine that teaches people will be coming into faith after the return of Christ, we only see separation and judgement

 

[Clare73]

Since Scripture doesn't say one way or the other, it's really not ours to know one way or the other what Judas may or may not have done that has not been written for us.

-CryptoLutheran

Scripture says:

"One of you is a devil." (Jn 6:70-71)

"The one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled." (Jn 17:12)

"It were better for him if he had not been born." (Mt 26:24)

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Clare73]

I would NOTequate these people in Mathew 7:21-23 to be Christians whose faith grew cold, on the contrary! these folks were boasting in all the works they did under the power of the Holy Spirit and in the NAME of Jesus...................yet we see from scripture none of it was the will of the Father but they were working in they're own will and direction

They performed miracles (Mt 7:22) by their own will rather than by the power of the Holy Spirit?

In the faith,
Clare

 

[true2theword]

Hi t2tw,

I would ask you, in light of this comment and several that followed in your subsequent posts to consider this event and and ask yourself the followup questions:

Jesus spoke to his disciples about that great and terrible day of God's judgment. He said to them: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Here are the questions: Do you believe that these people that Jesus is speaking to, if asked when they were alive if Jesus was the Son of God, they would have responded, "yes"? Do you believe if these people had been asked when they were alive if Jesus had died on the cross, would they have responded, "yes"? What about if Jesus was raised in three days or is now at the right hand of God? Do you further believe that any of them would have believed these things?

Clare is correct. One must be born again and when one is born again, all truth is revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. It is his job according to our Lord and Savior, Jesus. Now, you might ask, "Well, how do we know if one is born again or not?" Friend, that's a little more difficult. Jesus likened the work of the Holy Spirit upon the earth as a wind. You cannot see it or know where it's going.

Consider and ponder and pray over these things.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

Ted all I can tell you is what we see plainly written in the bible, people filled with the Holy Spirit operating in the Holy Spirit, and then we see them commiting sins, and some of these sin's would lead to death even spiritual death if repentance does not occur

thus the warnings in Revelations show clearly that while many were called unto salvation not all will be chosen, Its not at all that they were void of the Holy Spirit or were true believers.

The fact of the matter is people (true believers) can be led astray, because they stopped following Jesus and they follow false teachers and false prophets, they shipwrecked their faith with unbiblical teachings

much the same way its completely unbiblical to teach that a Christian cannot walk away from salvation and chose to follow satan.

and Judas is a good example of being chosen by Jesus, filled with the Holy Spirit, operated in ministry in the power of the Holy Spirit, and then gave it all away because of greed! and satan entered him and used him to do his will which was to destroy Jesus.

this is why he committed suicide because its very much like many things Christians do, they know afterward they really didn't want to do somthing, but at the time satan tempts them with fleshly lies, and they give into these lies...........then immediently afterward they are filled with remorse and don't know why they did it

Judas's weakness was money and the love of it, greed was his downfall, afterward he realized he traded the 30 coins for betraying the Son of God. hindsight is 20/20

 

[Clare73]

As I asked Clare73 before, how is one born of God? Is it not by believing in Jesus Christ? Is it not by believing Christ is the Son of God? Is it not by believing that He died for our sins? Is it not by believing that Christ rose again?

Are you asking again?

If so, I answered in the following:

How is one born again?

Only by the Holy Spirit, who "blows wherever he pleases. You can see his effects, but you cannot tell where he comes from or where he is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit (Jn 3:8)." He works as he pleases in the rebirth and renewal of the human heart.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Clare73]

sister do you not see what you are saying? read very carefully what the virgins said "give us some of your oil, FOR OUR LAMPS ARE GOING OUT!"

these five foolish virgins had lamps that were LIT (they had the Holy Spirit)

So did Saul, and those in Mt 7:22-23.

They operated by the power of the Holy Spirit, but in all of them, the Holy Spirit did not indwell them.

if we are to interpret the scripture to mean the oil represents the Holy Spirit........which I strongly disagree

Yes, let me make that more specific.

The wise virgins had the oil of saving faith from the Holy Spirit.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Clare73]

Oh you switched! now the oil nolonger represents the Holy Spirit it represents (Faith)........

Yes, it represents faith from the Holy Spirit.

I'm glad your willing to change your mind, it shows you have the ability to learn, but I'm afraid we don't see any doctrine that teaches people will be coming into faith after the return of Christ,

Did the foolish virgins receive the oil of saving faith when the bridegroom arrived?

In the faith,
Clare

 

[true2theword]

They performed miracles (Mt 7:22) by their own will rather than by the power of the Holy Spirit?

In the faith,
Clare

Clare the bible clearly tells us that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and God's calling are "IRREVOCABLE" see Romans 11:29

people by their own human power cannot cast out demons, they can although misuse and be disobedient to God's will concerning the power and display of the gifts and power.

this is clearly seen in Moses disobeying God's instruction to speak to the rock to bring forth water for the people

instead of following God's will in the matter Moses following his own will (in anger) struck the rock with the staff 2 times and what happens does God Hold back miracelous power because Moses disobeyed

No the power of the Holy Spirit works a miracle dispite it being the will of God

what is God's judgement concerning Moses for this sin, he is not allowed to enter the promised land

it really is a shadow of what people who operate in the Holy Spirit contrary to the will of God can expect

 

[true2theword]

Yes, it represents faith from the Holy Spirit.


Did the foolish virgins receive the oil of saving faith when the bridegroom arrived?

In the faith,
Clare

wow! Clare you go to some far reaching lengths to hold unto incorrect interpretation

 

[Clare73]

wow! Clare you go to some far reaching lengths to hold unto incorrect interpretation

I'm not understanding where the inconsistency with Scripture is.

Perhaps you could explain.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[true2theword]

Yes, it represents faith from the Holy Spirit.


Did the foolish virgins receive the oil of saving faith when the bridegroom arrived?

In the faith,
Clare

Clare do you realize that the virgins who had the true oil of salvation (as you call it true oil of faith were the ones who directed the virgins without the true faith where to get the true oil of faith, were the true faith virgins liars? did they deceive the foolish virgins, did they send them to a false teacher?


and to be honest Clare if you being a Christian full of the Holy Spirits true saving faith, and were approached by someone who was asking you to teach them and give them also true saving faith, would you turn them away and send them to false teacher, because they returned with a false saving faith

your interpretation of the wise virgins has so many things wrong with it. considering what your equating the oil to represent

while the bible emphatically uses the oil to represent the Holy Spirit all through the bible sometimes oil is just oil and may simply represent not being prepared for the wedding they knew was approaching, we see they are all chosen to meet the bridegroom, they all easily could of prepared, thus all could of entered the wedding celebration

 

[Clare73]

Clare the bible clearly tells us that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and God's calling are "IRREVOCABLE" see Romans 11:29

Irrevocable gifts do not mean rebirth.

people can misuse and be disobedient to God's will concerning the power and display of the gifts and power.

this is clearly seen in Moses disobeying God's instruction to speak to the rock to bring forth water for the people

instead of following God's will in the matter Moses following his own will (in anger) struck the rock with the staff 2 times and what happens does God Hold back miracelous power because Moses disobeyed

No the power of the Holy Spirit works a miracle dispite it being the will of God

what is God's judgement concerning Moses for this sin, he is not allowed to enter the promised land

it really is a shadow of what people who operate in the Holy Spirit contrary to the will of God can expect

However, even though disobedient, Moses went to God at his death.

Whereas those in Mt 7:21-23 went to desruction.

Both operated by the power of the Holy Spirit "against God's will," but something was different.

That difference is saving faith in Moses, and counterfeit faith in those of Mt 7:21-23, as well as those of Lk 8:13, whose soil was shallow (Mk 4:5); i.e., their faith was counterfeit.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Clare73]

Clare do you realize that the virgins who had the true oil of salvation (as you call it true oil of faith were the ones who directed the virgins without the true faith where to get the true oil of faith, were the true faith virgins liars? did they deceive the foolish virgins, did they send them to a false teacher?

No. . .no. . .and no.

Could you explain how this applies, I'm not seeing the problem or inconsistency with Scripture.

Did you not see the following post?

I'm not sure I understand?

Are you claiming the 5 foolish virgins lamps had different oil as compared to the 5 wise virgins? I thought the 5 foolish virgins simply ran out of oil, unlike the other five virgins who carried oil in their jars also.

No?

Saul also "ran out of oil."

It's a parable, an analogy.

The oil is faith. The foolish virgins had a different faith which was counterfeit, while the wise virgins had true saving faith.
The wise virgins could not give them their saving faith, for the foolish virgins must receive it from the provider of faith, the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:5).

The foolish virgins ran out of faith because it was counterfeit faith, as did those in Lk 8:13,
who received the word with joy but had no root (saving faith).
They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away, because their faith is counterfeit (their soil is shallow--Mk 4:5).

The wise virgins did not "run out of" faith because it was the true saving faith of rebirth.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[true2theword]

No. . .no. . .and no.

Could you explain how this applies, I'm not seeing the problem or inconsistency with Scripture.

In the faith,
Clare

And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’


you are equating the oil to be (saving faith) are you saying you do not have enough saving faith to share the true Holy Spirit faith with others?

lets say for sake of arguement that there was simply not enough time for the (true faith virgins) to adaquately instruct the foolish ones, the true faith virgins instructed the foolish ones to go to those who sell the true faith, we see the foolish virgins went to buy this (true faith) but they were to late, the door was shut

So what is the moral of the story, those with the true faith won't share this true faith with those who want the true faith.........ha ha ha that is hilarious!

 

[Clare73]

And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and
buy for yourselves.’

you are equating the oil to be (saving faith) are you saying you do not have enough saving faith to share the true Holy Spirit faith with others?

Thanks, true2the word,

But look at the parable carefully.

The foolish virgins wanted the wise to give them their oil (saving faith).

We cannot give anyone our saving faith, or saving faith period.
God has no grandchildren (born again of his children's faith).

lets say for sake of arguement that there was simply not enough time for the (true faith virgins) to adaquately instruct the foolish ones, the true faith virgins instructed the foolish ones to go to those who sell the true faith, we see the foolish virgins went to buy this (true faith) but they were to late, the door was shut

It's not about sharing one's saving faith with another, it's about giving one's saving faith to another.
That cannot be done. Saving faith comes only from the provider of it, the Holy Spirit.

So where am I inconsistent with Scripture here?

Did you miss the following post again?

I'm not sure I understand?

Are you claiming the 5 foolish virgins lamps had different oil as compared to the 5 wise virgins? I thought the 5 foolish virgins simply ran out of oil, unlike the other five virgins who carried oil in their jars also.

No?

Saul also "ran out of oil."

It's a parable, an analogy.

The oil is faith. The foolish virgins had a different faith which was counterfeit, while the wise virgins had true saving faith.
The wise virgins could not give them their saving faith, for the foolish virgins must receive it from the provider of faith, the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:5).

The foolish virgins ran out of faith because it was counterfeit faith, as did those in Lk 8:13,
who received the word with joy but had no root (saving faith).
They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away, because their faith is counterfeit (their soil is shallow--Mk 4:5).

The wise virgins did not "run out of" faith because it was the true saving faith of rebirth.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[true2theword]

Thanks, true2the word,

But look at the parable carefully.

The foolish virgins wanted the wise to give them their oil (saving faith).

We cannot give anyone our saving faith, or saving faith period.
God has no grandchildren (born again of his children's faith).


It's not about sharing one's saving faith with another, it's about giving one's saving faith to another.
That cannot be done. Saving faith comes only from the provider of it, the Holy Spirit.

So where am I inconsistent with Scripture here?

Did you miss the following post again?



In the faith,
Clare

well Clare I'm really sorry you find it impossible to share the true gospel and salvation faith with others, the bible teaches that true believers will produce thirty, sixty, and a hundred fold.

but you plainly believe you can't even produce 5 foolish virgins with the life saving truth, even when they ask you for it.........what an incredibly sad faith you hold to, and a doctrine that plainly tells you, you can't lead others to real salvation

 

[Clare73]

And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and
buy for yourselves.’

you are equating the oil to be (saving faith) are you saying you do not have enough saving faith to share the true Holy Spirit faith with others?

Thanks, true2the word,

But look at the parable carefully.

The foolish virgins wanted the wise virgins to give them their oil (saving faith).

We cannot give anyone our saving faith, or saving faith period.
God has no grandchildren (born again of his children's faith).

----

lets say for sake of arguement that there was simply not enough time for the (true faith virgins) to adaquately instruct the foolish ones, the true faith virgins instructed the foolish ones to go to those who sell the true faith, we see the foolish virgins went to buy this (true faith) but they were to late, the door was shut

The parable is not about sharing one's saving faith with another, it's about giving one's
saving faith to another.
The parable shows it cannot be done. Saving faith comes only from the provider of it, the Holy Spirit.

So where am I inconsistent with Scripture here?

Did you miss the following post again?

It's a parable, an analogy.

The oil is faith. The foolish virgins had a different faith which was counterfeit, while the wise virgins had true saving faith.
The wise virgins could not give them their saving faith, for the foolish virgins must receive it from the provider of faith, the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:5).

The foolish virgins ran out of faith because it was counterfeit faith, as did those in Lk 8:13, who received the word with joy but had no root (saving faith).
They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away, because their faith is counterfeit (their soil is shallow--Mk 4:5).

The wise virgins did not "run out of" faith because it was the true saving faith of rebirth.

well Clare I'm really sorry you find it impossible to share the true gospel and salvation faith with others, the bible teaches that true believers will produce thirty, sixty, and a hundred fold.

but you plainly believe you can't even produce 5 foolish virgins with the life saving truth, even when they ask you for it.........what an incredibly sad faith you hold to, and a doctrine that plainly tells you, you can't lead others to real salvation

That's somewhat non-responsive to what is presented, don't you think?

In the faith,
Clare

 

[true2theword]

That's somewhat non-responsive to what is presented, don't you think?

In the faith,
Clare

you should share your strange interpretation with your pastor, maybe he could shed some light into what you perceive the parable to mean.

you conclude the oil was different, the five foolish had counterfeit oil not the true salvation oil, how you walk away from that parable with that notion I have no idea?

I've never heard such an interpretation from anyone in all walks of christianity, so I gather this is your own private interpretation.

we see from scripture they had lamps that were lit, they simply lacked enough oil to stay the course of the evening, the foolish asked the wise for some of theirs but some how the Holy Spirit is not infinite in this case and He has limits to the amount of His saving grace and mercy that can be distributed.

especially when a christian who has counterfeit holy spirit ask a true Christian to share what they have, you come to some strange conclusion that the true life saving gospel inspired by the one true Holy Spirit, is some how limited, in being shared........that simply is about the most unbiblical notion I've ever heard.


this is what I see Clare, I see someone who will go to incredible lengths and hurdles to try and prop up a few of their preconceived doctrines, and since they do not line up with scripture, the number of errors simply increase, with every attempt to interpret somthing that contradicts their false teaching.

again please share this private interpretion with your pastor, maybe you will listen to him

 

[Clare73]

I gather this is your own private interpretation.

Not by long shot. . .your exposure to the Scriptures is limited.

we see from scripture they had lamps that were lit, they simply lacked enough oil to stay the course of the evening, the foolish asked the wise for some of theirs but some how the Holy Spirit is not infinite in this case and He has limits to the amount of His saving grace and mercy that can be distributed.

Parables are symbolic, analogous, not literal.
You are using the wrong analogy, and it doesn't account for all the facts of the parable; e.g.,

1) the shut door at the wedding banquet, where no more may enter,
2) the bridegroom's response to those outside, "I tell you the truth, I don't know you."

a) The foolish virgins were not ready for the bridegroom because they did not have saving faith.

b) The foolish virgins were shut out of the wedding banquet because they did not have saving faith.

("Because many, I tell you, will try to enter and not be able to once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door. You will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' " Lk 13:24-25).

c) The foolish virgins were consigned with all the others whom the bridegroom did not know (Mt 7:23; Lk 13:25).

The parable is about counterfeit faith and judgment.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[true2theword]

Not by long shot. . .your exposure to the Scriptures is limited.


Parables are symbolic, analogous, not literal.
You are using the wrong analogy, and it doesn't account for all the facts of the parable; e.g.,

1) the shut door at the wedding banquet, where no more may enter,
2) the bridegroom's response to those outside, "I tell you the truth, I don't know you."

a) The foolish virgins were not ready for the bridegroom because they did not have saving faith.

b) The foolish virgins were shut out of the wedding banquet because they did not have saving faith.

("Because many, I tell you, will try to enter and not be able to once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door. You will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' " Lk 13:24-25).

c) The foolish virgins were consigned with all the others whom the bridegroom did not know (Mt 7:23; Lk 13:25).

The parable is about counterfeit faith and judgment.

In the faith,
Clare

they had oil to begin with, had they more of the same oil they would not have needed more oil and would have entered the banquet, they would have not been shut out.............how you equate they had counterfeit oil is where you're speculation leaves common sense.

It would be the same as me saying the oil represents good works, and then go into some long discourse of how it works, completely leaving the simplicity of the parable, and coming to some far reaching conclusion that is only understood in accompaniment with your ADDED definitions.

A lesson in hermeneutics might be of great benifit to you.

just curious but is this the interpretation your pastor is teaching?