Why do bad things happen to good people?

[funtimes]

Christ would have.

No welfare for Jesus...
Jesus and company had so much money, they needed a treasurer. John 13:29

 

[timewerx]

No welfare for Jesus...
Jesus and company had so much money, they needed a treasurer. John 13:29

No they don't, you certainly don't know Jesus and serve Mammon.

 

[Senecharnix]

They can't bother you unless you listen to them. Solomon used them as construction workers.

People are far more dangerous.

Apologies, friend, but I must assert that you are entertaining a very dangerous false assumption. As it just so happened, I once knew a fellow who was proud of his old truck. He had spent much time, money, and effort restoring it and turning it into a classy mobile. One evening, he was taking me to a store when we began discussing this very subject. He entertained the same opinion as you do. I told him that he was crazy if he believed the Devil and demons have no power unless you allow them to have it. Puffing up, he decided to prove it by challenging the Devil. Within twenty-four hours, the Devil made him eat his ill-advised and insulting challenge. It seems his truck’s brakes mysteriously failed at a most inopportune moment, leading to a terrible accident. His prize truck was totaled and he ended up get hurt somewhat badly. Lesson learned: Respect the Devil’s power—or else! Then there is the case of a truly righteous fellow that I know. He serves God in the truest sense of that term and is quite courageous, particularly when it comes to confronting false teachers and challenging hypocrites. One evening, he denounced a preacher in the middle of a church service for being a false teacher. Less than an hour later, some demons attacked him. They were unhappy about him causing them trouble. It seems they were using the false teacher to lead the church’s flock astray. Well, the fellow in question did not give them the power to attack him. They used the power that they have been endowed with, being cosmic monsters….

Anyway, I could give more examples that I have witnessed or know of regarding devils and demons causing individuals trouble without the victims giving them the power to do so. Devils and demons are nasty and powerful. They, however, mostly operate from the shadows by influencing individuals on a subconscious level. Sometimes, though, they possess individuals or exert their power conspicuously. The latter generally occurs whenever they are provoked….

Nonetheless, I will agree that people are generally far more dangerous. The deal is that devils and demons strongly influence people to become dangerous in all sorts of ways….

 

[Senecharnix]

We do not recognize the face of devils and demons, a true believer only recognizes the Face of God which is the shining light of the Holy Spirit that blocks all darkness.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and teachings of devils;



He-man, this is the most absurd assertion that I have read from you thus far. It is also snidely insulting….

 

[Soulgazer]

Apologies, friend, but I must assert that you are entertaining a very dangerous false assumption. As it just so happened, I once knew a fellow who was proud of his old truck. He had spent much time, money, and effort restoring it and turning it into a classy mobile. One evening, he was taking me to a store when we began discussing this very subject. He entertained the same opinion as you do. I told him that he was crazy if he believed the Devil and demons have no power unless you allow them to have it. Puffing up, he decided to prove it by challenging the Devil. Within twenty-four hours, the Devil made him eat his ill-advised and insulting challenge. It seems his truck’s brakes mysteriously failed at a most inopportune moment, leading to a terrible accident. His prize truck was totaled and he ended up get hurt somewhat badly. Lesson learned: Respect the Devil’s power—or else! Then there is the case of a truly righteous fellow that I know. He serves God in the truest sense of that term and is quite courageous, particularly when it comes to confronting false teachers and challenging hypocrites. One evening, he denounced a preacher in the middle of a church service for being a false teacher. Less than an hour later, some demons attacked him. They were unhappy about him causing them trouble. It seems they were using the false teacher to lead the church’s flock astray. Well, the fellow in question did not give them the power to attack him. They used the power that they have been endowed with, being cosmic monsters….

Anyway, I could give more examples that I have witnessed or know of regarding devils and demons causing individuals trouble without the victims giving them the power to do so. Devils and demons are nasty and powerful. They, however, mostly operate from the shadows by influencing individuals on a subconscious level. Sometimes, though, they possess individuals or exert their power conspicuously. The latter generally occurs whenever they are provoked….

Nonetheless, I will agree that people are generally far more dangerous. The deal is that devils and demons strongly influence people to become dangerous in all sorts of ways….

Sounds to me like he challenged one of the Archons. Not a good thing to do unless you can see straight through all illusions. Some Christians might be able to, but in my personal experience, only a Christian Gnostic can accomplish that, and he would win by a full rejection of the realm of the demiurge. Most "daemons" are no more than parasites sucking on spiritual energy. They love it when people are angry, jealous or fearful, because that's when the feeding is good. Roughly slug shaped, and about the size of a large mouse, they usually attach to a lower extremity to feed. They can transmit an illusion of a much larger creature, or even a beautiful woman, whatever it takes to generate fear. They don't have any intelligence though, and if you can locate them by feel, can just be peeled off.
If you know someone who is constantly angry or argumentative, they might have six or seven of them stuck on their legs.
One of the Demon Lords though, and you might need an exorcist. They usually go after Catholics.

In any case, have the sacred spirit wrapped around you like a cloak, and they can't even see you.

 

[Senecharnix]

Sounds to me like he challenged one of the Archons. Not a good thing to do unless you can see straight through all illusions. Some Christians might be able to, but in my personal experience, only a Christian Gnostic can accomplish that, and he would win by a full rejection of the realm of the demiurge. Most "daemons" are no more than parasites sucking on spiritual energy. They love it when people are angry, jealous or fearful, because that's when the feeding is good. Roughly slug shaped, and about the size of a large mouse, they usually attach to a lower extremity to feed. They can transmit an illusion of a much larger creature, or even a beautiful woman, whatever it takes to generate fear. They don't have any intelligence though, and if you can locate them by feel, can just be peeled off.
If you know someone who is constantly angry or argumentative, they might have six or seven of them stuck on their legs.
One of the Demon Lords though, and you might need an exorcist. They usually go after Catholics.

In any case, have the sacred spirit wrapped around you like a cloak, and they can't even see you.[/quote]

Good advice...I am ignorant of archons and such. My experiences regarding evil spirits and dark forces have been limited to confontations with Satan, devils, and demons. I wish they did not exist. But, alas, they do....

 

[he-man]

Good advice...I am ignorant of archons and such. My experiences regarding evil spirits and dark forces have been limited to confontations with Satan, devils, and demons. I wish they did not exist. But, alas, they do....

The only Face we see is that which comes from God, the Holy Spirit, which shines so brightly that it obscures all darkness.

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]In Romans 5. 31, and 2 Thess. 3. 2, the Apostle refers to deliverance from unbelieving Jews, a very different thing from praying to be delivered from Satan. [/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]1 Thess. 1. 10: "Jesus, which delivereth (A. V. delivered) us from the wrath to come." The amendment is necessary, as St. Paul speaks of a continuous action on the part of our Lord. [/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]2 Tim. 4. 18: 'The Lord will (A. V. shall) deliver me from every evil work."[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]It seems to me, and I think to the generality of Christians, more in accordance with the position of those whom Christ has delivered, to pray to be delivered from moral evil, the sin that besets us continually, and from its penalty, than from “the evil one,"[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]The Septuagint Version usesthe verb ρυομαι in reference to deliverance not merely from personal enemies, but from all evil, as in the following passages, which the reader will find in Tromm's Concordance, 8. v. ρυομαι:—Gen. xlviii. 16; Exodus vi. 6; Pa. xxxiii. 4, 17, 19 ; xxxviii. 12 ; 1. 15 ; liii. 7 ; Iv. 13; lxxxv. 12; ec. 3; cvi. 6, 20 ; cxxiii. 6, 7; cxliii. 8; Prov. ii. 11 ; x. 2; xi. 4; xxiii. 14; Job v. 20 ; xxxiii. 17, 30; Ezekiel xxxvii. 23. This is a point of considerable importance, since, as it is said, the alteration is defended to a considerable extent on the ground that ρυσαι necessarily implies deliverance from a person. [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New, monospace][FONT=Courier New, monospace]The real question, however, is whether του πονηρουis masculine or neuter. [FONT=Courier New, monospace]If it is neuter, " evil " is the only true rendering. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif][FONT=Courier New, monospace]St. Paul uses the Greek word ([/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]το πονηρον[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]), [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]Rom. 12. 9, in the precise sense of "evil:" "Abhor that which [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]is evil," lit. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]abhorring [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]evil, i.e. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]wickedness. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]Again,[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]το πονηρον[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace](A. V. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]" that which is evil") is the expression used in a [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]discourse[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]of our Lord, Luke 6. 45, as the antithesis [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]το αγαθον[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace], "[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]that which is good.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]These are the only passages in the New Testament in which the [FONT=Courier New, monospace]gender is distinctly marked.[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]On the other hand, the statement that every oath, especially every oath used to confirm an asseveration, owes its existence to moral evil in man, is in full accordance with our experience and with the teaching of Holy Scripture. But for mutual distrust [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]between man and man, it would never have been thought of; and when employed needlessly, lightly, irreverently, it involves serious guiltiness. [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]But on solemn occasions, when it would otherwise be impossible to distinguish between thoughtless utterances and serious declarations, or when needed to convey full assurance to a timid conscience or distrustful heart, an oath is more than justifiable: it comes not from the evil one, but from the goodness of the utterer.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]We need only refer to the numerous passages in which God Himself swears, in which our Lord complies with the solemn adjuration of the High Priest, or to those in which oaths are enjoined by the law, to prove that, although in every case the necessity or justification of such oaths "cometh of evil" in the heart or mind of man, who needs such assurances, it would be simply monstrous to attribute it to the suggestion or influence of the evil one.[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New, monospace][FONT=Courier New, monospace]M[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]atthew v.39: Μη αντιστηναι [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]τω πονηρον[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace] A.V. "Resist not evil." [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]The Translators, [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]“[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]Resist not him [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]that is evil." Here it is a point of considerable importance that although the Translators, and the gene[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]rality of modem commentators, adopt the masculine adjective, they [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]do not suppose that it refers to [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]a [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]Satan. That would, in fact, be in [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]direct opposition to scriptural teaching. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace][FONT=Courier New, monospace]The Speaker's Commentary by Cook[/FONT]
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[eachallberg]

Does/did Christ not see evil?

 

[he-man]

Does/did Christ not see evil?

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]This is a point of considerable importance, since, as it is said, the alteration of the Translators is defended to a considerable extent on the ground that ρυσαιnecessarily implies deliverance from a person. Job 5:19, 33:18
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]The real question, however, is whether του πονηρουis masculine or neuter. [FONT=Courier New, monospace]If it is neuter, " evil " is the only true rendering.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif][FONT=Courier New, monospace]St. Paul uses the Greek word ([/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]το πονηρον[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]), [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]Rom. 12.9, in the precise sense of "evil:" "Abhor that which [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]is evil," lit. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]abhorring [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]evil, i.e. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]wickedness. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]Again,[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]το πονηρον[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace][/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace](A. V. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]" that which is evil") is the expression used in a [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]discourse[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace] [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]of our Lord, Luke vi. 45, as the antithesis [/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]το αγαθον[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace], "[/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]that which is good.”
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]'εκ του πονηρον εστιν. There the A. V. has, “cometh of evil." The Translators consistently give another rendering, "is of the evil one," in the text, and relegate "evil" to the margin; thus implying a dissentient minority.[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]But to that alteration there is the formidable and, as it seems to me, insuperable objection, that it must imply that every adjuration or oath is either prompted by a Satan, or originates with him: a view which it is scarcely conceivable that any devout reader of the Bible should adopt.
[FONT=Courier New, monospace][/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]On the other hand, the statement that every oath, especially every oath used to confirm an asseveration, owes its existence to moral evil in man, is in full accordance with our experience and with the teaching of Holy Scripture.[/FONT]
([/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace]The Speaker's Commentary by F. C. COOK)[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New, monospace][/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace] [/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace][/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace][/FONT]

 

[strangertoo]

Bad things happen because God is punishing for their sins of their past lives... Exodus 34:7

Jesus said to those He healed that if they sinned again it would be worse for them the next time... John 5:14

the good suffer in long-sufferng the wicked whilst God taeches us all eventually that Love is a better way for everyone, but not finished until all play their part ...

what slows it down is that men can lie , and so they most do , even to ourselves, even about how good we are...

http://www.christianforums.com/t7701290/#post61745669

 

[he-man]

the good suffer in long-sufferng the wicked whilst God taeches us all eventually that Love is a better way for everyone, but not finished until all play their part ...what slows it down is that men can lie , and so they most do , even to ourselves, even about how good we are...

Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
'εκ του πονηρον εστιν. There the A. V. has, “cometh of evil." The Translators consistently give another rendering, "is of the evil one," in the text, and relegate "evil" to the margin; thus implying a dissentient minority.

But to that alteration there is the formidable and, as it seems to me, insuperable objection, that it must imply that every adjuration or oath is either prompted by a Satan, or originates with him: a view which it is scarcely conceivable that any devout reader of the Bible should adopt.

On the other hand, the statement that every oath, especially every oath used to confirm an asseveration, owes its existence to moral evil in man, is in full accordance with our experience and with the teaching of Holy Scripture.
(The Speaker's Commentary by F. C. COOK)

 

[dana b]

Bad things happen because God is punishing for their sins of their past lives... Exodus 34:7

Jesus said to those He healed that if they sinned again it would be worse for them the next time... John 5:14

No, it's because we are all "Job."

 

[he-man]

No, it's because we are all "Job."

Job is a parable that shows us he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 2 Pet 1:9,10

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

The parable explains what can happen if we do not eschew evil.

 

[strangertoo]

Job is a parable that shows us he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 2 Pet 1:9,10

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

The parable explains what can happen if we do not eschew evil.

I can find nowhere in Job where he was purged of past sins...

and election is for the few under grace [matt 7:14]

and as you say, it says Job eschewed evil , so how can it be about what happens if we do not do so ?

rather the whole of Job is about baptism of fire , trial of Love to perfect it , and how Job succeeds... how his friends misunderstand what is going on as most folks do in this world... not understanding the purpose of longsuffering ...

 

[strangertoo]

No, it's because we are all "Job."

hardly, few find the way now -Matt 7:14

 

[he-man]

I can find nowhere in Job where he was purged of past sins...

and election is for the few under grace [matt 7:14]

and as you say, it says Job eschewed evil , so how can it be about what happens if we do not do so ?

rather the whole of Job is about baptism of fire , trial of Love to perfect it , and how Job succeeds... how his friends misunderstand what is going on as most folks do in this world... not understanding the purpose of longsuffering ...

The parable explains what can happen if we do not eschew evil.

Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.

 

[strangertoo]

The parable explains what can happen if we do not eschew evil.

Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.

but as you quoted , it is about Job who did eschew evil ... you contradicted yourself ... and still are for some unknown reason

Job is about baptism of fire my friend , the salvation of the few who perfect Love now [Jude 1:14], and so the destruction of all sinners [Matt 7:13-14] to take them and Satan out of the way for the Millennium so that the kingdom of perfect Love under Jesus can be established before the many are resurrected from hell [Rev 20:13] and countless many saved by works after death frees them from sin which they declined to obey Jesus and do in this life :-

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
...
1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

 

[he-man]

but as you quoted , it is about Job who did eschew evil ... you contradicted yourself ... and still are for some unknown reason Job is about baptism of fire my friend

FIRE of God:
Eze_15:7 And I will set my face against them; they shall go out from one fire, and another fire shall devour them; and ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I set my face against them.

Jer_15:3 And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the LORD: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.

Jer_30:16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.

Heb_10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

[strangertoo]

Jesus was destroyed ['apoleia'] , it ain't what you IMAGINE it to be... Jesus showed the WAY through destruction even though some are not destroyed ... because almost all men are destroyed [Matt 7:13]

so it rather PROVES that destruction of body and soul is NOT the end of the BEING ... the spirit always returns to God who gave it :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

resurrection from the spirit is identical to creation :-

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

a little dust and the spirit from God and voila, a soul is CREATED ... just the same when a soul is re-created in resurrection...

but note that the spirit is NOT created, the soul is created from the spirit and some dust...

thus it is the spirit of a man that is immortal, not the soul,but the spirit can always re-create the soul even after the body and soul are destroyed in hell, all men are thus freed from hell by the spirit - Rev 20:13... after almost all men are destroyed [Matt 7:13]

so destruction cannot mean annihilation, one cannot annihilate God ....the spirit ...

 

[he-man]

Jesus was destroyed ['apoleia'] , it ain't what you IMAGINE it to be so it rather PROVES that destruction of body and soul is NOT the end of the BEING ... the spirit always returns to God who gave it :-Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. resurrection from the spirit is identical to creation :- Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.so destruction cannot mean annihilation, one cannot annihilate God ....the spirit ...

Think again...
Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.

Hos 13:3 Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud, and as the early dew that passeth away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor, and as the smoke out of the chimney.

Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the repository; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Heb_10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Job 27:19 The rich man shall lie down, but he shall not be gathered: he openeth his eyes, and he is not.