Thanks Bob.
We are starting to go in circles on this. To be honest, I don't know why the conversation with Nicodemus applies to us. It was suggested earlier in the thread that it applied only to him, but the language doesn't support that. Do you know how it can apply to us?
Well, I'm simply making a point. I fully believe that Jesus' words to Nicodemus are for us today -- just as I believe that the whole of scripture is for us today.
But to rightly say that 'you' is plural but then go back to slaves/wives/husbands and apply a more strict application is, well, sloppy. The plural 'you' does not have to have world-wide scope, it could be a small group that isn't mentioned directly in this story because it is about the dialogue between Jesus and Nic, a dialogue that has wide application
based upon all other scripture regarding the subject.
You didn't address the bit about the sections for wives and husbands. Clearly the message for wives is not for you or me, and clearly the message for husbands is not for my next door neighbour's 12 year old daughter.
I didn't address wives/husbands because that wasn't my direct point, although the addressing of the slaves is still apropos.
So, me being a man, does this mean that I can take my scissors and cut out all verses relating to wives and women in general? I'm not a pastor, can I cut out the dictates to qualify for pastorship?
Let me take it to a silly extreme: can the unbeliever cut out all the bible since he doesn't believe?
Why is it different for the slaves section?
We were slaves to sin. The reference to slaves is simply that: a reference to make a point. It is not a section that only applies to slaves. It is to show the juxtaposition between what Jesus did and the concepts of servatude.
Do you have a job? Do you not serve a master? Do you pay taxes? Do you have no "master" above you who can direct your path, to which if you did not follow his dictate you would face some sort of repercussion?
Ok. Wives.
Revelation 19:7
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.
Who is the bride?
So, on a daily level of a human marriage we have a husband and a wife, man and woman. Peter tells us that a wife is to be submissive to her husband. Other scripture concurs that the man is the covering for the woman and God is the head of Christ. Christ is the covering for the church, His bride.
Unpeel the onion. So are we to be submissive to Christ as a wife is submissive to her husband? Of course. The wife is not to braid her hair and put gold jewelry in it (this was a common thing done by a prostitute as a sign of her promiscuousness); does this have meaning to men in general and our acting as "prostitutes" to the world (one foot in and one foot out)? We are to be submissive, as a Bride, to our Groom, Christ Jesus even as the
example of a wife's submissiveness to her husband show on a human level.
So just as an onion has layers, so does scripture. A mention to wives certainly is a teaching toward wives; but it doesn't end there. For all scripture is given for all of our edification.
Would you feel differently about it if the section for slaves didn't contain a contentious verse?
Not sure what you mean by this.