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MJ only: First man Adam?

mrs94

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I know what Christians believe and do not want to debate that, but just seeing if Jewish perspective is the same. Was Adam the first or was there people created in Gen 1 and then Adam was created specifically for a purpose in Gen 2? Also, if Adam was the first man, how do you reconcile that they intermarried with their families when it seems apparent (at least to me) that YHWH had already established some kind of rules (law?) from the very beginning with His separation of Shabbat?

Thanks in advance for replies and I am not trying to ruffle any feathers. I lean to Adam being the first, hubby is the one that thinks there might have been more.
 

sevengreenbeans

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Adam is the first. Even his name declares it so..

How does it declare it?

H120
אדם
'âdâm
aw-dawm'
From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.

H119
אדם
'âdam
aw-dam'
To show blood (in the face), that is, flush or turn rosy: - be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Was Adam the first or was there people created in Gen 1 and then Adam was created specifically for a purpose in Gen 2? Also, if Adam was the first man, how do you reconcile that they intermarried with their families when it seems apparent (at least to me) that YHWH had already established some kind of rules (law?) from the very beginning with His separation of Shabbat?

Thanks in advance for replies and I am not trying to ruffle any feathers.

Interesting you should bring up the topic you did. Awhile ago, I was hanging out with my sister recently and we had a really good conversation on the ways that man developed...specifically on the many differing interpretations of creation and how secular evolution has never made any sense about the origins of man. At one point, however, it was brought up by her that it could be possible Adam/Eve were not the only creatures on the planet at one point --and it really had me pondering how possible this may be. As said best elsewhere:
In Romans 5 (and somewhat in 1 Corinthians 15), Paul draws an analogy between Adam and Jesus, both of whom are representative of humanity. Since Jesus is a historical figure, it is argued that Adam, too, must be a historical figure in the very same sense. The difficulty with this understanding of Paul, however, is that it is difficult to reconcile with the scientific data.

Historical Views

Another view sees humanlike creatures evolving as the scientific evidence indicates. But at a certain point in history, it is possible that God bestowed special spiritual gifts on those who had developed the necessary characteristics. This historical event would endow the recipients with the image of God. We can say that Homo divinus was therefore created from Homo sapiens. With these spiritual gifts came the ability to know and experience evil—an opportunity that was grasped with tragic consequences.


This view can fit whether the humans in question constituted a group or a specific male-female pair. In the case of a group, we can imagine that God interacted with all members of the group and essentially initiated the relationship that exists today. If the initiative was with a single human couple, then that relationship could spread to and through their offspring as that subset of the existing population came to dominate.... It is argued that bearing God’s image is not a matter of our physical appearance but a matter of our capacity to love both God and others, to have dominion over the earth, and to have moral consciousness. We are to image God (see our question on the "Image of God"). In this way we might distinguish between Homo sapiens and the image-bearing creatures that we might call Homo divinus..


For a better description, one can go here to the following:

Some are of the mindset that man evolved, to the point where the Lord bestowed upon him the image of God---thus making it possible for him to share links with others in the Primate family and yet be distinct when his intelligence underwent RADICAL changes. And on the issue of man being related to apes, there'd be nothing wrong with this (In my opinion). Secifically, Under the Scientific classification of Anthropoids:
Sub-Order: Anthropoidea,
Infra-Order: Catarrhine,
Super-family: Homonoidea,
Subfamily: Homininae,
Tribe: Hominini,
Species: Human.
The other "tribe" under Homininae is: Panini, Species: Chimpanzees. Humans are different for other primates in that we don't have an insulating layer of hair - allowing us to control body temperature through sweating. AND Our females go through a menopause sometime quite early in life, while other primates don't.And this wouldn't be an issue for "Creationists" in any way. Dr. Porsche built the original "Bebe" Renault, and the Economy models of the early Mercedes rear engine vehicles - AND the Volkswagens (in 1939). When one looks at the "guts" of the three (and of others he did) one can see a distinctive commonality of design, and similar features among all three - making it clear that the same "thought process" produced all three vehicles. BUT Nobody would try to prove that a Volkswagen was a "Bebe Renault" - but could easily demonstrate that the same "creator" was involved in both of 'em.

Some Christians think belief in evolution undermines the uniqueness of humankind and the reality of evil and the fall....but I disagree. For the Genesis account portrays Adam and Eve as Neolithic farmers. It is perfectly feasible that God bestowed His image on representative Homo sapiens already living in the Near East to generate what John Stott has called Homo divinus, those who first enjoyed personal fellowship with God but who then fell most terribly from their close walk with God (Genesis 3.8). All those who disobey God and trust in their own wisdom in place of God’s law reiterate the historical fall in their own being (Ezekiel 28.11-19). I don't see anything wrong with advocating that God may've made two species that have similarities and may've indeed come from the same stock while choosing to impart one aspect of Himself into one of the groups to make them far superior/advanced than all others in creation.

There was an article from BIO Logos I came across..and I thought it was intriguing when it came to discussing what's seen in Genesis and renconcilling that with Anthroplogy. For more:


clayman.jpg




What they offered seemed insightful and, IMHO, it does bring up an entirely different realm of conversation when considering Genesis and how God described the role of Man (as well as the Devil) and the story of creation all the way up to Genesis 6/the Flood.​


Although I think the story of Adam/Eve is literal, I think the interpretation of it often gets missed. Where scripture says "God made man from the Dust of the Ground", I've always been curious as to why many say its somehow impossible for the Lord to have made other species similar to man (i.e. apes, primates, etc) and then with man, breath his spirit into man....with the Gift of God's Spirit imparted being what set man apart.​

The text doesn't say that only having 4 fingers/thumbs is what makes man in the "Image of God"...as other creatures share similar genetic make-up on some parts & have the same body parts. Yet that doesn't mean that we're the same fully. If apes /other species and humans were 100% the same in all things, it'd definately place an entirely different spin on the film "Rise of the Planet of the Apes."​

image3.jpg

13121817622012.jpeg
poapes1_sm.jpg


Seeing the Film puts an enitrely DIFFERENT spin on what it means to be in a Zoo---and makes one wonder what would happen if indeed was the case that something was naturally able to develop that'd be against man. For animals have learned to use tools, as well as to communicate on high levels of intelligence/network...even using tools to do things. Though never on the level as man, there's no saying that it could not happen where intelligence/development grew enough where a threat to man's survival occurred. Of course, if that happened like in "Planet of the Apes, they I'd say Apes would be seen as another creation of the "Beasts of the Field" (Genesis 1:24-25)...and having to fight against other species evolving would be an extension of the mandate from God to "Have Dominion" (Genesis 1:26-31). ..with both connected and what's seen in anthropology with "common links"/similar actions kept in place...

Concerning the theory of men being related to "beasts", there's actually another theory that says one of the beasts of the field would be the Nephilim from Genesis 6:3-5/ Numbers 13:32-33 ......and that the Nephilim were a species of primate or humanoid creatures not made in the "Image of God." It may sound wild to others that other creatures could be made with human like features - but in light of the fact that even angelic beings/divine creatures in the heavenlies share similarities with humans (i.e. hands, feet, arms, legs, eyes, etc.) and yet have been shown to have distinct traits in addition to that, I'd not see why there needs to be an issue.​



For more, one can go here to the following:​
Other creatures being made outside of the Image of God as man was wouldn't mean that they don't have value or worth in the eyes of the Lord, as discussed more in-depth in #91 AND #92. For some articles discussing how men/apes are similar and yet distinct:
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I know what Christians believe and do not want to debate that, but just seeing if Jewish perspective is the same. Was Adam the first or was there people created in Gen 1 and then Adam was created specifically for a purpose in Gen 2? Also, if Adam was the first man, how do you reconcile that they intermarried with their families when it seems apparent (at least to me) that YHWH had already established some kind of rules (law?) from the very beginning with His separation of Shabbat?
.

I like what the folks at BioLogos noted when sharing the following:

Many Christians prior to the emergence of the historical science of geology interpreted the first chapters of Genesis as literal history. This literal reading implies that God specially created Adam from dust and Eve from Adam’s rib, and that all humans are descended from these original parents.

However, despite its attractive simplicity, the literal reading does not fit the evidence. A literal reading of Genesis runs into historical trouble immediately when we try to reconcile the chronological details of the two very different creation accounts found in Genesis 1:1–2:3 and Genesis 2:4–3:24. Difficulties also arise when we work out the implications of the human race beginning with only two initial people. For example, where did the wife of Cain, Adam’s son, come from? The only possibility from a literal reading is that she was Cain’s sister. Not only does this conflict with later biblical commands against incest, but there is no reference in Genesis to Cain having a sister or any other humans who could populate another area (such as the land of Nod, east of Eden, Gen 4:16). Ironically, defending a literal reading of this story requires one to explain away the text’s literal meaning.

Equally problematic is that when Cain is banished from his homeland for killing his brother Abel, he fears being hunted down and killed (Gen 4:13-14). The people trying to kill Cain would have to be his extended family—siblings, nieces, nephews, and so on—all united in trying to kill him. But the text taken literally does not allow it. Along the same lines, Genesis mentions the city that Cain built and named after his son (Gen 4:17). Who would populate this city or help to build it? All of this points strongly toward a nonliteral, symbolic reading of the creation stories.

The scientific evidence suggests a dramatically larger population at this point in history. Recently acquired genetic evidence also points to a population of several thousand people from whom all humans have descended, not just two. Finally, fossil and DNA records point strongly to a more unified creation reflected in the relatedness of humans and other animals.

Many thoughtful, faithful Christians throughout history have subscribed to a variety of non-literal interpretations of the Genesis accounts of creation. Certain allegorical and historical views of Adam and Eve are consistent with modern science.
 
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pat34lee

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I know what Christians believe and do not want to debate that, but just seeing if Jewish perspective is the same. Was Adam the first or was there people created in Gen 1 and then Adam was created specifically for a purpose in Gen 2? Also, if Adam was the first man, how do you reconcile that they intermarried with their families when it seems apparent (at least to me) that YHWH had already established some kind of rules (law?) from the very beginning with His separation of Shabbat?

Thanks in advance for replies and I am not trying to ruffle any feathers. I lean to Adam being the first, hubby is the one that thinks there might have been more.

Why are there prohibitions in the Torah against marrying close relations? To keep from passing on the same bad genes from both parents repeatedly. We know from people who practiced this over generations that it causes many health and mental deficiencies. Adam and Eve, and on down to Noah, didn't have this to worry about, as their genes had no flaws to pass on. Before the flood, there would have been no sickness, no disease, no aging health problems. These flaws started building up after the flood, as evidenced by the shortening life spans of those born after that time.
 
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sevengreenbeans

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clayman.jpg



Awesome painting, EasyG!

I am one who believes Adam was created first, and Eve taken from Adam, but I also believe there were others created in the same manner, in order that they might produce/reproduce according to the Law established by YHWH.

It is interesting to note all that is contained in a human rib bone. It theoretically contains every building block necessary for the creation of another human being, except the breath of life, of course. This is medical and scientific discovery proving the account in Genesis is not so far-fetched, as many people suppose, and would show "why" YHWH specifically chose flesh and bone from the man's side. This would make them part of the same genome, but not necessarily identical, allowing diversity in their genetics.
 
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pat34lee

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Easy G (G²);61746081 said:
I like what the folks at BioLogos noted when sharing the following:
A literal reading of Genesis runs into historical trouble immediately when we try to reconcile the chronological details of the two very different creation accounts found in Genesis 1:1–2:3 and Genesis 2:4–3:24. Difficulties also arise when we work out the implications of the human race beginning with only two initial people. For example, where did the wife of Cain, Adam’s son, come from? The only possibility from a literal reading is that she was Cain’s sister.

Equally problematic is that when Cain is banished from his homeland for killing his brother Abel, he fears being hunted down and killed (Gen 4:13-14). The people trying to kill Cain would have to be his extended family—siblings, nieces, nephews, and so on—all united in trying to kill him. But the text taken literally does not allow it. Along the same lines, Genesis mentions the city that Cain built and named after his son (Gen 4:17). Who would populate this city or help to build it? All of this points strongly toward a nonliteral, symbolic reading of the creation stories.

The scientific evidence suggests a dramatically larger population at this point in history.

Many thoughtful, faithful Christians throughout history have subscribed to a variety of non-literal interpretations of the Genesis accounts of creation. Certain allegorical and historical views of Adam and Eve are consistent with modern science.

The type of narrative used in Gen. 1&2 is used in other places in the Tanakh also. It gives a short summation, then goes back and fills in some of the details.

The most likely place that other people came from is that Adam and Eve had many more children than those listed in Gen. See my first post as to why that was not a problem for procreation.

Why did Cain fear being murdered? Because of his own guilt. A liar will always assume that everyone lies to him. A thief's biggest fear, other than being caught, is being stolen from.

I have debated against evolution on several boards, and if it comes to the scriptures or modern science being wrong, it is science. The structure of DNA and rNA, and the complexity of single cells should have closed the door on evolution years ago. The cell is as complex as a major city, and DNA carries more information than a small library. Only the belief that much of the information in DNA is junk has kept them going, but that junk is disappearing as they learn how different areas interact.
 
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mrs94

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Thanks for the comments and links, guys. I do not believe in evolution and am just trying to find the evidence for whether God created just Adam and Eve first or others, as well. Hubby is asking a lot of these questions and since I have turned from being a Christian to being a follower of Yeshua, I do not know the answers to what mainstream Jews think....which is why I posted this. I really appreciate ya'lls input.
 
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mercy1061

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Why are there prohibitions in the Torah against marrying close relations?

Maybe because it is just wrong. The firstborn from Adam and Eve was Cain....

Cain murdered his brother.....

Considering that Abraham married his close relative, it should send us the message that our ancestors married their close relatives. Let us not justify their behavior; but let us learn from their behavior.

To keep from passing on the same bad genes from both parents repeatedly. We know from people who practiced this over generations that it causes many health and mental deficiencies. Adam and Eve, and on down to Noah, didn't have this to worry about, as their genes had no flaws to pass on. Before the flood, there would have been no sickness, no disease, no aging health problems. These flaws started building up after the flood, as evidenced by the shortening life spans of those born after that time.

We have Cain, the Nephilim.....

Noah means "comfort"; man needed rain to bless the work of his hands. Noah built the ark with his hands.....

Deut 28:12
12 The Lord will open up for you his own well-stocked storehouse, the heavens, providing your land with rain at just the right time and blessing all your work. You will lend to many nations, but you won’t have any need to borrow.
 
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yedida

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Maybe because it is just wrong. The firstborn from Adam and Eve was Cain....

Cain murdered his brother.....

Considering that Abraham married his close relative, it should send us the message that our ancestors married their close relatives. Let us not justify their behavior; but let us learn from their behavior.



We have Cain, the Nephilim.....

Noah means "comfort"; man needed rain to bless the work of his hands. Noah built the ark with his hands.....

Deut 28:12
12 The Lord will open up for you his own well-stocked storehouse, the heavens, providing your land with rain at just the right time and blessing all your work. You will lend to many nations, but you won’t have any need to borrow.

what does noach and rain have to do with Adam & Eve and offspring and descendants?

But to carry it on further, we have the problems also of the grandchildren of Noah replenishing the earth, unless you don't believe that the flood was earth-wide but rather local.....
 
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sevengreenbeans

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what does noach and rain have to do with Adam & Eve and offspring and descendants?

But to carry it on further, we have the problems also of the grandchildren of Noah replenishing the earth, unless you don't believe that the flood was earth-wide but rather local.....

The grandchildren of Noach would have no problem replenishing the Earth. There is no Torah prohibition against cousins marrying one another.
 
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Lulav

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I know what Christians believe and do not want to debate that, but just seeing if Jewish perspective is the same. Was Adam the first or was there people created in Gen 1 and then Adam was created specifically for a purpose in Gen 2? Also, if Adam was the first man, how do you reconcile that they intermarried with their families when it seems apparent (at least to me) that YHWH had already established some kind of rules (law?) from the very beginning with His separation of Shabbat?

Thanks in advance for replies and I am not trying to ruffle any feathers. I lean to Adam being the first, hubby is the one that thinks there might have been more.
There are some that tend to believe that there were two creation stories included in Genesis. The first being From Genesis 1:26-28 the second being Genesis 2:7. (Eve does not come into the picture until verses 18-25). Genesis 1 is delineated by the name used for G-d, Elohim. In the second chapter and after, Elohim YHVH is used. This name was not introduced to Abraham, Isaac or Jacob, but only first to Moses. The Patriarches knew him as El Shaddai. (Ex 6:3)

So in Genesis 2

Adam, names the animals.

And out of the ground the L-RD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Then since all these he named were not sufficient to be a mate for him:

And the L-RD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept : and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the L-RD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto Adam. 23 And Adam said , This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

In Chapter 3 after the 'fall' we read this

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

If she was the mother of all living then that negates there being others being created to reproduce.
 
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mercy1061

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There is no Torah prohibition against cousins marrying one another.

Are Adam and Eve distant cousins? Adam called Eve the "mother of all the living"; Adam, is called the son of G-D. The second Adam is called the Son of G-D. This would natually make Mary, Yeshua's mother.

Let us not seek to justify our ancestor's behavior, but let us learn from their behavior. Of course Cain is the firstborn from Adam and Eve...

Isaac is the firstborn from Abraham and his niece Sarah; Isaac is required to be offered on the altar as a burnt offering. Therefore let us become like Isaac, let us offer our bodies as a living sacrifice which is our reasonable service.

Romans 12:1
I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God’s mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical “Temple worship” for you.
 
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sevengreenbeans

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Are Adam and Eve distant cousins? Adam called Eve the "mother of all the living"; Adam, is called the son of G-D. The second Adam is called the Son of G-D. This would natually make Mary, Yeshua's mother.

Let us not seek to justify our ancestor's behavior, but let us learn from their behavior. Of course Cain is the firstborn from Adam and Eve...

Isaac is the firstborn from Abraham and his niece Sarah; Isaac is required to be offered on the altar as a burnt offering. Therefore let us become like Isaac, let us offer our bodies as a living sacrifice which is our reasonable service.

Romans 12:1
I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God’s mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical “Temple worship” for you.


I edited and clarified my previous post.
 
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Yahu

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Thanks for the comments and links, guys. I do not believe in evolution and am just trying to find the evidence for whether God created just Adam and Eve first or others, as well. Hubby is asking a lot of these questions and since I have turned from being a Christian to being a follower of Yeshua, I do not know the answers to what mainstream Jews think....which is why I posted this. I really appreciate ya'lls input.

I Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


I think that is all the evidence you should need.
 
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xDenax

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Thanks for the comments and links, guys. I do not believe in evolution and am just trying to find the evidence for whether God created just Adam and Eve first or others, as well. Hubby is asking a lot of these questions and since I have turned from being a Christian to being a follower of Yeshua, I do not know the answers to what mainstream Jews think....which is why I posted this. I really appreciate ya'lls input.

If you want to know what mainstream Jews believe then you should ask a group of mainstream jews ( I assume you mean non messianic). You are asking a group of non Jewish messianics.
 
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xDenax

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By all means, xDenax, post away!

I'm not sure this would be the right forum for such a post. I could maybe find some links for you. What would you like to know in particular? There are many opinions. You'll find that a lot of Jews do believe in evolution (myself included). Others do not but have a variety of ideas concerning the beginning of Genesis.
 
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