Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

[strangertoo]

We have a saying in computing: 'Rubbish in, rubbish out' ...it means validate your input else no matter how perfect the logic the conclusions likely will be false...

Simply [reluctantly, grudgingly] repeating the words of sinners from endless 'study guides' written by sinners completely misses in many ways what scripture says :

all who follow Jesus are saints [Jude 1:14] , not sinners any longer... their task is to be the very image of Christ, perfect in Love as he is ...

the first task before teaching anyone is to validate the source of your info and despite my proffs that you have not done so, you refuse to face that you are in denial , not looking and seeing your mistake and being reproved by the scripture [not by me, by the words of scripture from God]

but that is to be expected [as you will come to see yourself in time]

so why not start again from the beginning, what God says is the foundation, the fisrt step, rather than what sinners say is the first step ? :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

I simply hope that you can understand that the saint is not saying something that is impossible [as many sinners in denial claim it is and you repeat them without reading the scripture and understanding it all with God ]

one chooses between sin and Love freely... Satan encourages sin with lying temptations that it is fun, progressive, instant happiness, in fact whatever you think you want be it money , sex, power, righteousness, Satan will promise it , but it is a lie , the whole lie falls apart slowly or quickly , but Satan aims to have you in denial by then, hooked on so desire or another that will never be what one imagines it could be... it ends in misery, destruction, hurt, pain, and eventually death for wages of sin [because as Rom 6:7 says the dead are freed from sin, but equally they have missed one opportunity to Love and so find God in life:-

1 John 4:8 He that doth not love, doth not understand God, because, God, is, love.
...
1 John 4:16 And, we, have come to understand and to trust the love which, God, hath, in us. God, is, love; and, he that abideth in love, in God, abideth, and, God, in him abideth.

... so committing to sin , even one sin, shuts God out , usually for life , few find the way in this life, many in the next life ...

but if one wants God enough then there is water baptism, commitment to stopping all sin once for all, keeping oneself with God's help once on WANTS it with every part of oneself, none hanging back...

but few understand water baptism, heck they even splash babies with water , bizarre!

clearly though if one turns back to sin after water baptism there can be little hope you will stop sinning before death frees from sin [but one has lost one life]

the first step is there , Satan says it's impossible, but saints and Jesus say it's the only way ... frankly sinners are not the best way of deciding whether to take it or not, you r study bible will only present Satan's arguments from twisting scripture , not using every word to explain what scripture originally meant [for only sinners translate scripture and there are no original scriptures, all supposed 'copies' vary too, proving it has been edited ... !

one can accept death as a sinner as most do [Rev 7:9-10] but one also accepts destruction in this earth [Matt 7:13] , or spend one's time FIRST removing the plank sinners have put in one's eye so one can then see clearly to help brothers remove otes in perfecting their Love in this life, as a few must be the kings and priests who rule and minister to teh masses in Jesus' kingdom come and God requires them from THIS world, not the next ...

 

[jessehove04]

Because Hell is a Scary Place

 

[dollarsbill]

the authority , as I keep explaining , is the Holy Spirit of God Himself , but it is a personal authority , not public , and it is SEALED - no-one receives that authority until they stop sinning in water baptism :-

That's your erroneous opinion. Proof please that you are right and MOST Christians are in error. You have no proof.

 

[dollarsbill]

Does anyone else find it suspect that some profess to be sinless? Only Jesus, Only Jesus, Only Jesus, the Savior.

 

[strangertoo]

Does anyone else find it suspect that some profess to be sinless? Only Jesus, Only Jesus, Only Jesus, the Savior.

saints aren't sinless, they simply CHOOSE to stop sinning because they see sin is abuse and they CHOOSE to Love instead as God and Jesus REQUIRE of saints...

but God and Jesus and all saints KNOW few will find the way to CHOOSE Love in this world :-

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

it is quite bizarre, but true, that many say God and Jesus and the saints ask the IMPOSSIBLE by asking that a few FREELY choose Love instead of freely choosing to sin as MOST men do now...

yet the MANY will die as wages of sin, result of not choosing to obey God and Jesus now , refusing to follow Jesus' way he showed us like the few saints do now , and so the MANY be destroyed in the end of this earth :-

Matt 7:13 ... for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

the many will be destroyed , not because they cannot choose to Love, but because they choose to deny they can Love or simply choose sin because they believe sin is better than Love... but God is right, Jesus is right, the FEW saints are right , sin is just a dsaster waiting to happen, Satan really is lying that sin is great cos' it always ends in disaster , emptiness, misery, destruction, death...

but God knows the few are enough to set up and run the kingdom and then SHOW the MANY in LATER resurrection to Jesus kingdom from hell [Rev 20:13] freed from sin by death [Rom 6:7] so God can at last baptise all flesh to know the Truth face-to-face by His Holy Spirit without killing them [Joel 2:28, John 16:13] and countless many [Rev 7.9-10]be saved by works of Love [Rev 20:13] by 'judgement day' who clearly were destroyed with the end of this world [Matt 7:13]

so Jesus kingdom is not of this world, but of the next :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.[pure Love!]

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

[strangertoo]

That's your erroneous opinion. Proof please that you are right and MOST Christians are in error. You have no proof.

I keep quoting the PROOF and you just ignore the scripture and the evidence of Love itself [which is God] , but hey I will try again :-


2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.


Jesus STATES that he WILL NOT take anyone still sinning by time of his return :-


Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

 

[strangertoo]

Because Hell is a Scary Place

hell cannot be a 'place' at all though, can it ...and Jesus poetically described his 'being in hell' as a 'sleep'.... not really scary at all

 

[P1LGR1M]

Hello heman, glad to have you join the discussion.

Perhaps if the YLT is given, it might sink in: What does YLT say?

2Th 1:9 who shall suffer justice--destruction age-during--from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,


What happened to them? God out of heaven, devoured them.

Nope...still not sinking in. The reason for that is that the reasoning is not taking into exactly what you say here:

We have first to consider the usage of the New Testament.

Instead of taking that very good advice instead what is offered is thought on deliverance.

Which is irrelevant because for these...there is no deliverance. So lets look at it.


2 Thessalonians 1:9

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,



As pointed out in the earlier post, or an earlier post, lol, notice this destruction is in fact from the presence of the Lord. Curious it is that when deliverance is talked about in Paul's teaching to the Thessalonians we see exactly what we are delivered from, and where this deliverance brings us:


2 Thessalonians 1

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)



9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,

10 when He may come to be glorified in his saints, and to be wondered at in all those believing -- because our testimony was believed among you -- in that day;



I am beginning to think Mr. Young has some crippled believers with his translation. But then, when one places his faith in a translation and does not give attention to the original, it is to be expected. Here is a translation easy to understand:


2 Thessalonians 1

New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)



9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction(T) and shut out from the presence of the Lord(U) and from the majesty of his power(V)

10 on the day(W) he comes to be glorified(X) in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.(Y)



Notice those destroyed are destroyed from the presence of the Lord, whereas those that are saved will be in the presence of the Lord?

We see olethros used by Paul here as well:


1 Thessalonians 5:3

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


3 for when they may say, Peace and surety, then sudden destruction doth stand by them, as the travail [doth] her who is with child, and they shall not escape;



So we see that not only is the destruction that will befall them sudden, but he broadens this to sudden and aiōnios to assure the Thessalonians that what he had taught before...had not happened. For if it had...then those which troubled them would no longer be around.

Now, to go back to the issue of deliverance, we see Paul does not fail to tell them what happens when they are delivered in 1 Thessalonians 5 either, consider:


1 Thessalonians 5

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)



9 because God did not appoint us to anger, but to the acquiring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 who did die for us, that whether we wake -- whether we sleep -- together with him we may live;



Now anger is a great word to do a study on. This translation does not carry the feeling of the word, orge, at least not as well as many other translations, but hey, whatever floats your boat. Some make a distinction between orge and thymos (wrath) which I do not think scripture supports their position, which is...to deny a pre-trib Rapture, lol. If anything, it goes against their position.

This verse is a spoonful of dust for annihilationists as well...alive or dead, after this point, we will be with the Lord. This builds upon ch.4 where we are told of the Rapture.

What happened to them? God out of heaven, devoured them.

This is true, but it must be kept in mind that this destruction does not equate to cessation of existance, which if a little more of the passages provided below had been given, that would be clear. But then, it is hard to proof-text a doctrine that is not taught when a fuller context is proveded.

And I will just go on to the next segment of this proposal:

Who are they?

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.


Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. [This is the second death.]

Kind of jumping passed some pretty important verses here:

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Where's Paul Harvey when you need him? lol


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Okay, here is the rest of the story:



Revelation 19:19-21

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, having been gathered together to make war with him who is sitting upon the horse, and with his army;

20 and the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who did the signs before him, in which he led astray those who did receive the mark of the beast, and those who did bow before his image; living they were cast -- the two -- to the lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone;

21 and the rest were killed with the sword of him who is sitting on the horse, which [sword] is proceeding out of his mouth, and all the birds were filled out of their flesh.



Clearly a temporal context, which is spoken of inmnay places in scripture. Here we have the final moments of the Tribulation. The Antichrist and the False Prophet are cast alive into the Lake of Fire. One point made before is that these are men, and we will see that the wicked among men will receive the same fate as Satan. Of course, if one denies there is a person, a fallen angel that is called the Devil, and Satan, well, it is going to cause some problems. Nevertheless, we can see what is in the text, right?

Right.

Anybody want to point out where these are delivered? Neither Satan's prominent henchmen nor those among the living escape. Not one. All are destroyed, leaving only the believing to enter the Millennial Kingdom.

Now, the next passage skipped deals directly with those we see slainhere:


Revelation 20

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


1 And I saw a messenger coming down out of the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain over his hand,

2 and he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, who is Devil and Adversary, and did bind him a thousand years,

3 and he cast him to the abyss, and did shut him up, and put a seal upon him, that he may not lead astray the nations any more, till the thousand years may be finished; and after these it behoveth him to be loosed a little time.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;

5 and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this [is] the first rising again.



Hmm. No wonder the KJV has been so popular for so long. Kind of dry.

Okay, a few things relevant in this particular discussion, again, those we just saw destroyed. The Antichrist and the False Prophet, the first inhabitants (that we can be dogmatic about) of the Lake of Fire, aare of course in the lake of Fire. The ones destroyed physically at the end of the Tribulation are said here not to live again 'til the thousand years are up. During which time, the literal Devil has been snatched up by another literal Angel and cast into a bottomless pit (which is to say he is in a deep, dark place, rather than it has no bottom, much like say, an endless buffet is not eternal, lol). So we know what has happened up to this point, and we know where our main characters are.

The saints which are resurrected are designated as...


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;

...which indicates to us that these are Tribulation Martyrs.

Now, we look at the question this response is to, which was, Who are they?

So far, we have events leading up to the Millennial Kingdom, at which time the saints live and reign with Christ, the wicked from among men are said to be dead, with the exception of the Antichrist and false Prophet who are in the Lake of Fire, and Satan is bound.

No mistaking that there will be a thousand year period. Spare me the "poetic license," a thousand years is a thousand years. It is a literal thousand years in view when it is called fleeting in regard to the Lord, and it is a literal thousand years here. Now lets who they are as we leave what has happened so far:

6 Happy and holy [is] he who is having part in the first rising again; over these the second death hath not authority, but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 and he shall go forth to lead the nations astray, that are in the four corners of the earth -- Gog and Magog -- to gather them together to war, of whom the number [is] as the sand of the sea;

9 and they did go up over the breadth of the land, and did surround the camp of the saints, and the beloved city, and there came down fire from God out of the heaven, and devoured them;

Not hard to see that Satan is allowed to leave his imprisonment, and that in view we have an entirely different gathering of the wicked.

And once again, physical men are destroyed.


10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;

12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works;

13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;

14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire -- this [is] the second death;

15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.


The Devil is cast into the Lake of Fire to join his henchmen. THe dead are gathered, and at this point they are resurrected. Remember, "they lived not again until the thousand years are up (v.5)." Where were they? In torment, just as the rich man in Hades was.

They are judged out of the books, which I believe are at the very least the books of scripture. This is what the rich man's brothers are pointed to, so it only makes sense that man is judged according to the revelation given him by God, which is able to lead Him to Christ, whether Old or New Testaments were had in their day.

And if they are not found in the Book of Life, which is also opened, they too are cast into the Lake of Fire. I don't know about you, but I am failing to see a theme of deliverance for the dead.

Only judgment.

So bear with me, before thinking I will not get to the heart of the response, lol.

Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

We have first to consider the usage of the New Testament.

The post is a little choppy and hard to follow, but I think in view is the usage of the words "destruction," as well as what is translated age-during here.


The particular verse and words:


2 Thessalonians 1:9

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,



While I know there will be those that will look at the links and...

consider the usage of the New Testament.

...let's look at a few uses anyway:

Destruction


There are only three other occurences of this word so we will look at all of them:


1 Corinthians 5:5

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


5 to deliver up such a one to the Adversary for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.



Not really a good verse for the annihilationist, as it shows existence after the destruction. This verse is a warning to us to live holy, and is temporal in context, speaking of the physical body.


1 Thessalonians 5:3

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


3 for when they may say, Peace and surety, then sudden destruction doth stand by them, as the travail [doth] her who is with child, and they shall not escape;



No deliverance here. Also temporal, and speaks of the judgment in the Tribulation. This is also an indication of a Pre-Trib Rapture, as the Day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night, yet, believers will not have it come upon them unawares as the wicked will.


1 Timothy 6:9

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


9 and those wishing to be rich, do fall into temptation and a snare, and many desires, foolish and hurtful, that sink men into ruin and destruction,



Still are not going to please the annihilationist with this one either, as the ruin and destruction in view here does not indicate death at all.

Paul expands on this thought:


10 for a root of all the evils is the love of money, which certain longing for did go astray from the faith, and themselves did pierce through with many sorrows;


And then there is our key verse:


2 Thessalonians 1:9

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,



Dire is the fate of those that suffer great delusion that they should believe the lie. And I do think the translation "shall suffer justice" conveys the intent here.

It boils down to those destroyed in the Tribulation, as we have seen in the previous post, suffer physical death when the wrath of God is poured out, and He metes out justice, vengeance which will seperate the wicked from His face forever. THis can be said because these that are destroyed, and all that do despite unto the Spirit of Grace, are already judged, and are already under condemnation, and will not receive life...but will remain dead, because they have no life.

Cessation of existance is not in view, and when we balance this with many very clear scriptures which teach the same, we can, without shame, give due reverence, godly fear, to the Living God.



Age During


John 3:36

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


36 he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'



Does scripture teach that salvation brings life which is anything but everlasting?

Matthew 25:46

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'




Are we to suppose one is forever and the other is not?


Hebrews 9:14

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


14 how much more shall the blood of the Christ (who through the age-during Spirit did offer himself unblemished to God) purify your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?



Is the Spirit not...eternal?

The many uses of aiōnios speak of the life we receive, and it is certain that is life without end. It is eternal because it is the life of Christ, Who is Eternal. It is the LIFE which Christ came to bestow on man, who were dead, and destroyed, yet eating and drinking and living life as if there were no tomorrow. But isn't that the way we all do at times? Until we find ourselves at the funeral home because someone has died, and we are faced with man's mortality, and thus our own? Kind of like driving by a bad accident...for a few miles we are very careful in our own driving.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

The words " deliver us from " (ρυσαι απ&#959 may refer to deliverance either (a) from a personal enemy, or (b) from an impending calamity or a moral evil.

1. In Romans xv. 31, and 2 Thess. iii. 2, the Apostle refers to deliverance from unbelieving Jews,• a very different thing from praying to be delivered from Satan.

Sounds great, but we are not looking at deliverance.

This is a smokescreen, nothing more.

1 Thess. i. 10: "Jesus, which delivereth (A. V. delivered) us from the wrath to come." The amendment is necessary, as St. Paul speaks of a continuous action on the part of our Lord. 2 Tim. iv. 18: ''The Lord will (A. V. shall)deliver me from every evil work."


These passages certainly add force to the assumption that in the Lord's Prayer deliverance from evil, specially from moral evil, guilt and its punishment, is primarily intended.

It is true, we HAVE been delivered from the wrath to come. This refers to both temporal and eternal wrath.

The Lord's prayer? Does Paul intend to bring to remembrance of the Lord's prayer when he is comforting the Thessalonians?

It seems to me, and I think to the generality of Christians, more in accordance with the position of those whom Christ has delivered from the power of Satan, to pray to be delivered from moral evil, the sin that besets us continually, and from its penalty, than from “the evil one," the devil who will flee from those who resist him. James iv. 7.
(The Speaker's Commentary by F. C. COOK)

Now forgive me if I have youe you confused with someone else, but aren't you the fellow that teaches there is no literal Devil?

And this teacihng is often seen to run with the teaching that everlasting and eternal do not actually mean everlasting and eternal.

And does the Lord's prayer, if one takes this meaning above, negate the many teachings in which Satan is seen as a person?

2Th 1:9 who shall suffer justice--destruction age-during--from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,

Okay, glad we could look at the YLT together. Perhaps next time we can look at a translation that is not quite so dry, lol.

God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Because Hell is a Scary Place

lol...welcome to the forum, Jesse.

God bless.

 

[Criada]

Mod Hat On

​

A few flamey posts have been removed from this thread.
Please keep it civil, folks.
Thanks

Mod Hat Off​

 

[dollarsbill]

I keep quoting the PROOF

Again, just YOUR opinion. You have given ZERO proof, over and over.

 

[dollarsbill]

I keep quoting the PROOF and you just ignore the scripture and the evidence of Love itself [which is God] , but hey I will try again :-

My oh my. You have offer ZERO proof. How are you authorized to proclaim our English Bibles are written by sinners following Satan? You're not! Please stop this unScriptural attack on our English Bibles.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Mod Hat On​

​

A few flamey posts have been removed from this thread.
Please keep it civil, folks.
Thanks​

​

Mod Hat Off​

​

I have only two questions:

What did I miss?

...and...

Have you really posted 58,000 times?

That is very impressive, Criada, how long have you been at it?

God bless.

 

[he-man]

Now forgive me if I have youe you confused with someone else, but aren't you the fellow that teaches there is no literal Devil?

to pray to be delivered from moral evil, than from “the evil one," the devil (The Speaker's Commentary by F. C. COOK)

And does the Lord's prayer, if one takes this meaning above, negate the many teachings in which Satan is seen as a person?

Absolutly
Mat 6:13 Deliver us from evil.— The Bishop of Lincoln, who in a brief note on the Gospel of St. Matthew had previously adopted the new rendering, has lately written to me saying that " there can be no doubt that the Translators acted ultra vires in making the alteration and that the general term evil is preferable to the evil one."

Dr. Hort: they [the translators] have left the [RV,s] Lord's Prayer in an incomplete, and I cannot but maintain, a corrupt form ; while they have utterly demolished the principle set forth forcibly and completely in the concluding parable as recorded by St. Luke. follows Sinaiticus and B," Deliver us from evil," rests precisely on the same authorities I have compared the readings of both in the editions of the S. P. C. K. and of Woide, with Sinaiticus, B, and A.

As a general rule both of them agree closely with B, an agreement conspicuous in minute points of grammar, the use of tenses and the definite article, and in readings which often strike us as singular if not startling. They agree indeed so closely as to force upon us the impression that they not only belong to the same school, but that they follow the same recension.

 

[P1LGR1M]

to pray to be delivered from moral evil, than from “the evil one," the devil (The Speaker's Commentary by F. C. COOK)
Absolutly
Mat 6:13 Deliver us from evil.— The Bishop of Lincoln, who in a brief note on the Gospel of St. Matthew had previously adopted the new rendering, has lately written to me saying that " there can be no doubt that the Translators acted ultra vires in making the alteration and that the general term evil is preferable to the evil one."

Dr. Hort: they [the translators] have left the [RV,s] Lord's Prayer in an incomplete, and I cannot but maintain, a corrupt form ; while they have utterly demolished the principle set forth forcibly and completely in the concluding parable as recorded by St. Luke. follows Sinaiticus and B," Deliver us from evil," rests precisely on the same authorities I have compared the readings of both in the editions of the S. P. C. K. and of Woide, with Sinaiticus, B, and A.

As a general rule both of them agree closely with B, an agreement conspicuous in minute points of grammar, the use of tenses and the definite article, and in readings which often strike us as singular if not startling. They agree indeed so closely as to force upon us the impression that they not only belong to the same school, but that they follow the same recension.

Well, gawrsh, hyuck...I guess if these two men say it so, it must be true...lol.

No need to bring up scripture.

 

[strangertoo]

My oh my. You have offer ZERO proof. How are you authorized to proclaim our English Bibles are written by sinners following Satan? You're not! Please stop this unScriptural attack on our English Bibles.

since I use the English translations of the mangled scrolls of God's prophets and saints as the basis of PROOF continually , I have no idea what you are talking about, it is yourself who never quotes the scripture , as in this latest personal deceitful attack... so please get back to discussing the scripture using scripture and stop attacking people just because you made mistakes in reading scripture... most folks do, it is normal, scripture is actually set up to delude the masses for a while so that the end of this world is swift once the few are taken to set up the kingdom for the later salvation of the masses [as I have shown from scripture many times in other threads]

 

[dollarsbill]

since I use the English translations of the mangled scrolls of God's prophets and saints as the basis of PROOF continually , I have no idea what you are talking about, it is yourself who never quotes the scripture , as in this latest personal deceitful attack... so please get back to discussing the scripture using scripture and stop attacking people just because you made mistakes in reading scripture... most folks do, it is normal, scripture is actually set up to delude the masses for a while so that the end of this world is swift once the few are taken to set up the kingdom for the later salvation of the masses [as I have shown from scripture many times in other threads]

Ok, I'll explain. You have said that our English Bibles are written by sinners following Satan. Then you turn right around and quote these Bibles "written by sinners following Satan" to prove YOUR doctrines. What's wrong with this picture?