Origins: Garden of Eden in Asia?

[Gxg (G²)]

Found something recommended to me by one of my sisters in CHrist---and was very amazed at some of the conclusions made on the issue. For maps are powerful when it comes to how we see the world and how we look at one another---especially as it concerns the level of importance we place on groups coming from certain parts of the globe.

And on the issue, one of the resources I plan to use for my children really amazed when it came to discussing possible areas for where Eden used to be. It's entitled 583 - East is Eden: Adam and Eve's Chinese Garden ... - Big Think/ East is Eden: Adam and Eve's Chinese Garden | Strange Maps

As said there (for excerpt):

Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers. The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush. The name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. (Genesis 2:10-14).

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Imagine it’s a long, long time ago. As the legend on the map says: “Before the upheaval of Central Asia. Before the subsidence of the Pacific Continent. Before the change in the position of the Polar regions. Before the Deluge.”

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Ah, the Deluge. That gives us a pretty specific time frame, albeit a rather narrow one. To Biblical literalists, sacred history comes with a very real chronology; the universe was created one weekend about six thousand years ago, the Great Flood is less than four and a half thousand years old . In contrast, those who prefer their world view seasoned with a generous helping of science, will be more inclined towards the hypothesis that it all started with a Big Bang, some 13 billion years ago. ​

Even without going into the whole Creationism versus Evolutionism debate , the massive imbalance in the size of their back stories seems to work in favour of the thesis with the bigger reserves of time. As witnessed by any commercial touting a product’s ‘traditional recipe’ as a positive quality, antiquity suggests validity. It’s much more difficult to argue with the vast aeons at the disposal of the Big Bangers than with the puny millennia of the Adam and Eve crowd. ​

But sacred history does have one big advantage over natural history - it has better stories. In the darwinist reading, the path from past to present was forged by impersonal forces: either big accidents (meteors, climate change) or slow evolutionary changes (frontal lobes, opposable thumbs). The ‘supernatural’ version in the Bible actually is the more ‘humanist’ one: it gives centre stage to Mr and Mrs Sapiens, and explains history as a consequence of the choices they face ​

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For Darwinists, our dog-eat-dog world merely is the successor to a previous, dinosaur-eat-dinosaur incarnation. In science, there is no Garden of Eden. The idea of Eden - that once there was a perfect state of affairs, when truth and happiness were not opposed , and virtue as pure as the world was young - is a powerful and attractive one , explaining the continued popularity of the sacred version of history, in spite of some obvious logical problems.​

So imagine it’s a long, long Biblical time ago. It’s the age of innocence, and life is good in the Garden of Eden. But where is this Garden? The hunt for the exact location of humanity’s original home is a fascinating quest, and a centuries-long cartographic conundrum. If they chose to include it on a map, cartographers usually picked a location in the Middle East, that cockpit of hallowed history.​

These two maps, however, are quite extraordinarily different. Eden is placed far away from its more usual location in or near Mesopotamia - The Garden is moved East of Eden, to borrow Steinbeck’s title. ​

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They are the work of Tse Tsan-tai (1872-1938), a Chinese revolutionary, newspaperman and Christian propagandist. Born in Sydney and baptised James Yee, Tse moved to Hong Kong whence he started agitating for the Qing dynasty on the mainland to be replaced by a democratic republic. The plot failed to come to fruition, and Tse had more success co-founding the South China Morning Post in 1903. ​

In 1914, Tse wrote The Creation, the Garden of Eden and the Origin of the Chinese, in which he attempted to prove, based on the geographical description in the Bible, that the Garden of Eden was located in China.
Tse’s outlandish theory was an attempt at proving that at least some Biblical events had taken place in China - and that therefore Christianity was not alien to the Middle Kingdom. The book was meant to dispel the notion that Christianity in China was a tool of foreign powers, at a time when the countries sending the missionaries were the same ones bullying a weak China into granting them coastal concessions. ​

The first map gives a global overview of the Bible-based world history as seen by Tse, and as opposed to others: two black dots represent the usual presumed location of Eden, in what appears to be either Iraq or southeastern Turkey. A red circle represents Tse’s hypothesis. It places Eden in the far west of China, in what was then known as Chinese Turkestan (and now as Xinjiang). ​

The location picked by Tse corresponds to the description in the Bible, referring to the course of four rivers near the Garden of Eden . Apparently unconnected to the Edenic claim are red lines on the map, that indicate ancient shorelines, and point to a giant sunken continent stretching from Papua New Guinea almost all the way to South America. It remains unexplained what this continent is, and which Bible verse it is based on; but it is reminiscent, shape- and location-wise, to the lost continent of Mu.​

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The map also shows an X in Tse's handwriting, marking a spot in Greenland that is supposed to have been the Antediluvian North Pole, Latitude 75˚, Longitude 40˚. Again, the Biblical foundation and any connection to Eden remain unexplained on the map.​

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Finally, the colour scheme on the map shows the world as peopled by Noah’s descendants. Biblical tradition holds that the world’s population descends from no more than three men - the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham and Japhet, the forefathers of the Semites (in the Middle East, and on this map, much of Asia and all of America), the Hamites (Africa, Arabia, India) and Japhetites (Europe). The Semitic expansion into Asia provides blood links between China and the Bible.

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The second map gives an indication of the geopositional shoehorning Tse applied to the geographical indications in Genesis, identifying India with Havilah . The result is the location of Eden in what appears to be a most unlikely place: an area between the Tarim River and the Kuen Lun Mountains better known today as the Taklamakan Desert. The area, now the world’s second-largest sand desert after the Empty Quarter in Arabia, is one of the most inhospitable places on earth.

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But ruined cities buried beneath the sand seem to indicate that the Taklamakan may not always have been as unforgiving as it has been for the last few millennia. In fact, its very name may hold a clue to its climatological past. Often, and erroneously, translated as something like ‘Once you enter, you’ll never make it out’, or ‘Sea of Death’ a more recent etymology suggests the name might actually mean ‘Land of Poplars’ .
Could it be that today’s sand desert once really was a garden paradise?​

Whether or not others agree, just thought I'd place it out there for the sake of something fun to think about. From a scientific perspective, as it concerns how the planet shifts continents, what we think of with locations today may not have been what they used to be. As another noted, "The 'Lost Continent' is not so random as it appears: it seems to correspond roughly to Micronesia and Polynesia. Note also the smaller "lost continent" to the North, probably representing the Hawai'ian Islands"...

There was actually a book I came across that had similar information in it, entitled Paradise Lust: Searching for the Garden of Eden. It's interesting to see the history of what has occurred for Eden-Seekers, as they did a lot...and were just as obsessed with Noah as they were with Adam and Eve. For more maps, see: paradiselustbook.com/maps

And if the Garden of Eden was originally in Asia, it's amazing to consider the ways that the Lord greatly used the people in it to do much for Him..as the Gospel spread greatly in Asia and there's a strong move of God that has been going on there for sometime.

The resurgence of people seeing the ways the Bible connects with Asians is in many ways a rediscovery of what was always present throughout China and other parts of the East...except that many times it was ignored. A pity it was ignored by so many, in light of the Biblical example of Job:

Job 1:3/Job 1

Prologue

1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.

4 His sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom.

and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.

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There are some who note how Job himself was an Oriental/East Asian.....and for more, one can go online/look up the article entitled The Image of the Oriental: Western and Byzantine Perceptions and the other here at Cyclopaedia of biblical, theological, and ecclesiastical literature - Google Books Result (concerning how Job's tomb is still shown to many Oriental tourists). Also, in the event you (or others) may be interested, there are some excellent articles on the subject of Asian Jews...specifically, those who are Chinese Jews. For more info, one can go online and investigate under the following:

• "Chinese Jews" ( )

• "Chinese of Arab and Persian descent--ColorQ's Color Club" ( )

• "ORIENTAL ORIGINS IN THE BIBLE: A Bible study guide which reveals the origins of the Oriental people according to the Bible." ()

__________________


Shalom

 

[visionary]

And here I thought the Promised Land was a return to the spot where the Garden of Eden use to be.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

And here I thought the Promised Land was a return to the spot where the Garden of Eden use to be.

Heard that theory a couple of times growing up..and it's definately plausible. Although my understanding over the years has been that the Promised Land and the Garden did not have to be simultaneous, especially seeing that the Garden itself was locked away by an cherubim angel in Genesis 3 when Adam/Eve were exiled. Eden is always an interesting concept when seeing what it symbolizes...especially in regards to Israel. For more:

• Exile from Eden (Gen 3)
• Paul, Christ, and Adam | internetmonk.com
• In the King's Garden (Gen 2), part one | internetmonk.com
• In the King's Garden (Gen 2), part two | internetmonk.com
• Another Look: Surd Evil, Serpents, and the Cosmic Battle | Internetmonk
• Another Look: Life in the King's Garden (Bible Studyâ,Genesis 2) |Internetmonk

For me, when I consider basic geography and the issue of plate tectonics shifting, it makes sense as to why things would not necessarily look EXACTLY the same as we see it today (or even as they saw it during the B.C days since they weren't aware of how the earth shifted often). Pangea comes to mind immediately, as I've heard others note that Jerusalem would be in the center of all the continents if they came together. More specifically, when Pangea did exist, the current continent of Asia was in the north/northeast area of the former supercontinent and Jerusalem was approximately in the southwest region of that area of the landform.

For more, one can investigate The Catastrophic Destruction and Restoration of Pangea

 

[Gxg (G²)]

And here I thought the Promised Land was a return to the spot where the Garden of Eden use to be.

If you have any resources you studied that advocated the concept of the Promised Land being where Eden is, would love to see/hear sometime

 

[visionary]

http://www.messengers-of-messiah.org/GodsMasterPlan/Ch1(Rev1_4_11Final)GardenEden.pdf

 

[Gxg (G²)]

http://www.messengers-of-messiah.org/GodsMasterPlan/Ch1(Rev1_4_11Final)GardenEden.pdf

Read the article and enjoyed it. Thanks I do think there is something to be said on the dyanmics of what the article noted when it came to the concept of a Spiritual Garden of Eden and the Physical one (just as it is with the Heavenly Temple being what the Earthly one is based on)----and I thought they had a lot of good points as it concerns the location of Eden. Many of which I came across before in my own study.

I still think there's something to be said on the issue of Eden being located in Asia and seeing the impact that geology/plate shifting can make when people in an area don't know they are being moved.

 

[pat34lee]

Pangea? Not quite. I don't agree with the time scale in this video. I think this took place during but mostly after the flood.

Genesis 10:25 And to Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

Expanding Earth - YouTube

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Pangea? Not quite. c

You mean you don't feel Jerusalem was a the center of Pangea when the continents were together? Not certain what you mean...

I don't agree with the time scale in this video. I think this took place during but mostly after the flood.

Genesis 10:25 And to Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

Expanding Earth - YouTube

Definately valid points to consider as it concerns Genesis 10:25 and the video you supplied.

Personally, I believe the world was mapped out before the flood, because they explored the whole world. And to give you an idea of how far they travelled..

Genesis 10:5
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
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On traveling the world, some of the theory would make more sense if seeing it within the context of what happened at Babel in Genesis 11

At the Tower of Babel, a city that was the antithesis of what God intended when He created the world, the Lord came down and disrupting a civilization in which there was originally one language for the entire world. The opening description in Genesis 11:1 with the whole world having one language indicates that the present episode was not placed chronologically after the events narrated in Genesis 10, which specifically mentions nations and languages (Genesis 10:20, Genesis 10:31-32, etc). .....and the episode with Babel may have occurred during the broad period covered in Genesis 10, especially if linked to the naming of Peleg in Genesis 10:25.

Genesis 1:9 records, “And God said, ‘Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.’ And it was so.” Presumably, if all the water was “gathered to one place,” the dry ground would also be all “in one place.” As Genesis 10:25 mentions, “…one was named Peleg, because in his time the earth was divided…”, its understandable as to why some point to Genesis 10:25 as evidence that the earth was divided after the Flood of Noah.

Of course, there are others who view Genesis 10:25 as referring to the “division” that occurred at the Tower of Babel rather than the division of the continents via “continental drift.” Some also dispute the post-Noahic Pangea separation due to the fact that, at the current rates of drift, the continents could not possibly have drifted so far apart in the time that has transpired since the Noahic Flood.

However, it cannot be proven that the continents have always drifted at the same rate. Furthermore, God is capable of expediting the continental-drift process to accomplish His goal of separating humanity (Genesis 11:8)....for God is able to do anything and has intervened in the natural world in wild ways MULTIPLE times before. The post-Noahic Pangea concept does possibly explain how the animals and humanity were able to migrate to the different continents. For how did the kangaroos get to Australia after the Flood if the continents were already separated?

Another explanation offered by Christian scientists that does not require a post-Noahic Pangea is that intercontinental migration most likely began while sea levels were still low during and immediately following the post-Flood Ice Age when much of the water was still trapped in ice at the poles. In this view, lower sea levels would have left the continental shelves exposed, connecting all of the major land masses through land bridges. As it stands, there are (or at least were) shallow underwater land bridges connecting all of the major continents. North America, Southeast Asia, and Australia are all attached to continental Asia...whereas Britain is attached to continental Europe. In some places, these intercontinental bridges are only a few hundred feet below our current sea level. Essentially, the theory can be summarized as follows:

(1) After the Flood, an Ice Age occurred.

(2) The vast amount of water that was frozen resulted in the oceans being much lower than they are today.

(3) The low level of the oceans resulted in land bridges connecting the various continents.

(4) Human beings and animals migrated to the different continents over these land bridges.

(5) The Ice Age ended, the ice melted and the ocean levels rose, resulting in the land bridges being submerged.
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Thus, while Pangea is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, the Bible does present the possibility of a Pangea.



For more information, one can go online/investigate the following under their respective titles:

• "Apologetics Press - Pangea, Peleg, and a Divided World" ()

• "Of Peleg and Pangaea << Associates for Biblical Research" ( )

And what scientists note with the theory of Pangea makes sense if considering what was noted with Peleg---and connecting it all with Babel, it may've been the case that God scattered all people across the world when the continents were one......choosing to later seperate those continents so that people would sovereignly be disconnected from one another.

 

[pat34lee]

The Tanakh uses a 360 day calendar. It is plain when you read Noah's story and add up the dates. I think that not only did the continents separate after the flood, but it caused the earth's orbit to lengthen from 360 to 364.25 days over several centuries. The earth's plates were probably fairly stable for a time, allowing the animals to migrate to what would be the different continents, then moved quickly during Peleg's day and after the Tower of Babel. The later stages were when the mountains and sea gorges were formed.

I think that some old maps were from antiquity, like the Piri Reis map. King Solomon had a fleet of ships that sailed the world. It is thought that his ships even reached the Americas, and that he mined there and traded with the native people.

The Saga of Ancient Hebrew Explorers -- Who Really Discovered America?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The Tanakh uses a 360 day calendar. It is plain when you read Noah's story and add up the dates. I think that not only did the continents separate after the flood, but it caused the earth's orbit to lengthen from 360 to 364.25 days over several centuries. The earth's plates were probably fairly stable for a time, allowing the animals to migrate to what would be the different continents, then moved quickly during Peleg's day and after the Tower of Babel. The later stages were when the mountains and sea gorges were formed.

I think that some old maps were from antiquity, like the Piri Reis map. King Solomon had a fleet of ships that sailed the world. It is thought that his ships even reached the Americas, and that he mined there and traded with the native people.

The Saga of Ancient Hebrew Explorers -- Who Really Discovered America?

From what I've seen, a Post-Flood pangea would make a lot of sense as it concerns diversification of species and the travel that occurred around the world after...with many of the floods on a mini-level (that were ripple effects from the global flood) shaping much of the world and others things. If all of mankind was centralized, it'd make sense as to why so many cultures have flood stories and a type of cultural memory of a massive event---even though others are seperated on continents as they are.

On what you noted with King Solomon and his sailing, more was discussed on that in #12 when it came to noting the ways that the Jewish people were sea-farers and travelled the world in Biblical times. As said in previous discussion, I have to consider much of the history behind those who were sailors throughout the history of Palestine/the Jews...sailing the Mediterranean and being owners of ships/skilled sailors before and after the Fall of Jerusalem. ...and not surprising seeing that Solomon himself had a fleet of sailors working for the Kingdom of Israel who were trained to know the sea.:

1 Kings 9:28 /1 Kings 9
26 King Solomon also built ships at Ezion Geber, which is near Elath in Edom, on the shore of the Red Sea.[a] 27 And Hiram sent his men—sailors who knew the sea—to serve in the fleet with Solomon’s men. 28 They sailed to Ophir and brought back 420 talents[] of gold, which they delivered to King Solomon.

1 Kings 10:22/1 Kings 10:5
Solomon’s Splendor

The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents,[] 15 not including the revenues from merchants and traders and from all the Arabian kings and the governors of the territories.

16 King Solomon made two hundred large shields of hammered gold; six hundred shekels[] of gold went into each shield. 17 He also made three hundred small shields of hammered gold, with three minas[] of gold in each shield. The king put them in the Palace of the Forest of Lebanon. 18 Then the king made a great throne covered with ivory and overlaid with fine gold. 19 The throne had six steps, and its back had a rounded top. On both sides of the seat were armrests, with a lion standing beside each of them. 20 Twelve lions stood on the six steps, one at either end of each step. Nothing like it had ever been made for any other kingdom. 21 All King Solomon’s goblets were gold, and all the household articles in the Palace of the Forest of Lebanon were pure gold. Nothing was made of silver, because silver was considered of little value in Solomon’s days. 22 The king had a fleet of trading ships[] at sea along with the ships of Hiram. Once every three years it returned, carrying gold, silver and ivory, and apes and baboons.
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2 Chronicles 8:17-18 / 2 Chronicles 8
16 All Solomon’s work was carried out, from the day the foundation of the temple of the LORD was laid until its completion. So the temple of the LORD was finished. 17 Then Solomon went to Ezion Geber and Elath on the coast of Edom. 18 And Hiram sent him ships commanded by his own men, sailors who knew the sea. These, with Solomon’s men, sailed to Ophir and brought back four hundred and fifty talents[c] of gold, which they delivered to King Solomon.

Isaiah 60:9
9 Surely the islands look to me;
in the lead are the ships of Tarshish, bringing your children from afar, with their silver and gold,
to the honor of the LORD your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor.

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There has been MUCH discussion/debate on the extent which Solomon's navy was able to travel throughout his reign...with some speculating that his reach extended globally due to the desire he had for research/study and collecting wisdom--as King Solomon's insatiable scientific curiosity, included the desire to learn about the flora and fauna of foreign lands ( I Kings 4:29-33 ). And with all of the exotic cargo of animals/materials he was able to get with the part of his fleet that came back only after having LONG stretches of time (3yrs ), some have said he was able to go as far as India. If you've ever heard of things such as the Los Lunas Decalouge Stone in New Mexico (as discussed in one of Sister Visionary's threads here in #6 ), it is interesting since many have wondered how something so ancient could have Hebrew text inscribed on it if it was the case that the Hebrews were stuck on one side of the world--but others have offered the theory that Solomon's fleet was able to go even as far as the America's....and was not limited by the sea...as noted by the article you linked to.

With that in mind, the heritage of Hebrews having a knack for being on the high seas stands out even more. Messianic Steve Collins had an excellent article on the issue that may be beneficial for others, entitled Did ancient Hebrews really Fear the sea? - The Equinox Project

Also, for some good information, I'm reminded of the work of Raphael Patai , born Ervin György Patai, who was a Hungarian-Jewish ethnographer, historian, Orientalist and anthropologist. He had an excellent series on the issue that I was able to look into from his book entitled Jewish Seafaring: A Chapter in Ancient Palestinian Culture. The work was later renamed entitled The Children of Noah: Jewish Seafaring in Ancient Times.

As said about the book in one review:

Based on nearly sixty years of research, beginning with study he undertook for his doctoral dissertation, The Children of Noah is literally Patai's first book and his last. It is a work of unsurpassed scholarship, but it is accessible to general readers as well as scholars.

An abundance of evidence demonstrates the importance of the sea in the lives of Jews throughout early recorded history. Jews built ships, sailed them, fought wars in them, battled storms in them, and lost their lives to the sea. Patai begins with the story of the deluge that is found in Genesis and profiles Noah, the father of all shipbuilders and seafarers. The sea, according to Patai's interpretation, can be seen as an image of the manifestation of God's power, and he reflects on its role in legends and tales of early times. The practical importance of the sea also led to the development of practical institutions, and Patai shows how Jewish seafaring had its own culture and how it influenced the cultures of Mediterranean life as well. Of course, Jewish sailors were subject to the same rabbinical laws as Jews who never set sail, and Patai describes how they went to extreme lengths to remain in adherence, even getting special emendations of laws to allow them to tie knots and adjust rigging on the Sabbath.

The Children of Noah is a capstone to an extraordinary career. Patai was both a careful scholar and a gifted storyteller, and this work is at once a vivid history of a neglected aspect of Jewish culture and a treasure trove of sources for further study. It is a stimulating and delightful book.
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I thought it was HIGHLY insightful...and for more, one can go here and investigate his article entitled Ancient Jewish Seafaring and River-faring Laws

For another book on the issue which intrigued me, one can investigate the work entitled Seafaring and the Jews by Nadav Kashtan. The book studies Jewish involvement in seafaring from Biblical, through Greco-Roman, Medieval and Early Modern periods to the present. This broad historical perspective allows a closer look at various attitudes of Jews to maritime activities, especially as shipowners and traders in the Mediterranean regions.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think that some old maps were from antiquity, like the Piri Reis map. King Solomon had a fleet of ships that sailed the world. It is thought that his ships even reached the Americas, and that he mined there and traded with the native people.

The Saga of Ancient Hebrew Explorers -- Who Really Discovered America?

There are others in existence, of course, who've given a lot of good views concerning those who discovered the Americas LONG before Solomom did so potentially....and this goes back to the issue of mapping the entire world either in a post-flood setting or a "pre-flood" setting since, there have been many wild theories as to how what technological capabilities man had. F0r many, they feel that may may've had even things such as the ability to fly via space travel.

In example, ever heard of the Olmecs?

The Olmecs have been mainly accepted as responsible for advanced civilization in the Americas....and the Mother Culture of all other Indigenious cultures in the Americas. Olmec heads, called "Negroid Statues" in the 1920's when they were found, have continued to baffle many since they have features that simply do not reflect the culture of the Indigineous peoples in the Americas...and resemble the features of those in Africa more so. One of the greatest anthropologists of all time has sought to do much work on the issue...and his name is Ivan Van Sertima. One excellent book on the issue that really blessed me was under the name of "They Came Before Columbus"

For more info, one can go online and look up his video presentation on "Google Video", under the name of "]"They came before Columbus - Dr Ivan Van Sertima..or they can go here to African Presence in Early America.

Ivan Van Sertima is a Guyanese historian, linguist and anthropologist ....and his work, "They Came Before Columbus", is a compelling and superbly detailed documentation of the presence and legacy of Africans in ancient America. Examining navigation and shipbuilding; cultural analogies between Native Americans and Africans; the transportation of plants, animals, and textiles between the continents; and the diaries, journals, and oral accounts of the explorers themselves, Ivan Van Sertima builds a pyramid of evidence to support his claim of an African presence in the New World centuries before Columbus. It was especially interesting to see the dynamics of the Moors, as it concerns some of the trade routes over the Atlantic they developed and how many have discussed that the rise of Eurocentric thought dominated much of history only after the age of Moorish domination in Spain for 400yrs prior.....alongside influence that happened in many differing European countries. Ivan in his book went into great detail telling of the sea routes Africans or Malian Moors were able to use to sail over here prior to Columbus, supporting the theory by the engravings found in the Cockaponset forest by John Gallager (Archeologist & Professor from Fordham University) and correlating it with the inscription found on the Haj Mimoun Rock in East Morocco and deciphered by Barry Fell, which records Moors (Blacks) being here a thousand years before Columbus

A lot of that is not surprising seeing that the descriptions Columbus gave of others present amongst those he saw in the Caribbean were people of African appearance...and other scholars have noted the same. William Katz of the book "Black Indians" did a lot of work on noting those realities, as seen here, here , and here).

Going back to the Olmec issue, the "Negroid" Statues that others have still been unable to understand, many have often pondered how was it that people seemingly from African could come all the way to the Americas. One of the older posters here---known as Shimshon---dialouged with me before on the topic. In his studies, he felt that the Sumerian writtings indicatied that the Olmec were related to the Anunnaki who traveled to the Americas via space craft. It was his view that they went about Setting up the stone temples and mining for gold..which would also present a connection between the African/Middle Eastern continent and the Americas. In his view, this is why the Omec look African....as well as the rocks/statues on Easter Island.

He continued to state that the small trinkets of gold flying machines from the Mayan, and the glyphs from Egypt indicate space travel, which further colaborates with the Sumarian writtings of the Anunnaki.

For his sources:

Mayan gold flying machines

Flying vehicles in Ancient Egypt

​

There are apparently others who have noted the same kinds of theories with flying machines being available...and for more:

ANd for more:

• Ancient Airplanes
• The Airplanes of Ancient Civilizations
• Description of an ancient aeroplane in Sanskrit
• World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Ancient Flying Machines

On what brother Shimshon noted, you can try finding him online/asking him yourself for confirmation---but in our conversation, he seemed to be very convinced that all of the things he discovered indicates the very real posibility of inter-continental travel way before Columbus...
For myself, though I'm not necessarily for the concept that the Olmecs necessarily had flying spaceships, I am open to the fact that they did indeed travel extensively. And with the issue of flying machines, the only possibility I can see is that they may have had supernatural aid/help. For there have been cases throughout history where it seems civilizations have done incredible feats with technology we've just recently been able to develop...yet there's no record of how they developed theirs. Either they were highly advanced----as man would have been in the beginning of the time after the Fall since he was still living for centuries at a time/was relatively pure genetically---or they were recieving

With the issue of the Olmecs possibly having space-ships, I personally don't believe that they needed to have things such as "spacecrafts" in order to traverse the oceans...seeing how other cultures managed to come over on ships to the New World. If the culture spawning the Olmecs was simply far more advanced that all others at the time---just as China at one point was highly advanced and had the technology to travel across continents far before the Maritime Exploration of the Europeans---then its possible that ships were used to travel.

Again, its just a theory..and for more solid review on the history of the Olmecs, one can go online/investigate the following under their respective titles:

• "Olmec Civilization - Crystalinks" ( )

• "The New York Times > Science > Mother Culture, or Only a Sister? ( )

• "Artifacts Comparison between ancient Mesoamerica and China" ( )

• "The Olmec: The original Black civilizations of Mexico and Mesoamerica" ( )

Claiming that the Negroid Statues in the Americas may be due to Transpacific influences is something that I have also been open to---and as it concerns other scholars saying that the statues came from Asian influence rather than African and Asians came before Columbus to the Americans (more discussed here, here, here, here, here , here, here and here), that's something I'm more than ready to accept.


All of that is said to make the point that it was indeed more than possible for man to traverse the world...and perhaps, to do so in ways we really can't imagine...
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[Gxg (G²)]

The Tanakh uses a 360 day calendar. It is plain when you read Noah's story and add up the dates. I think that not only did the continents separate after the flood, but it caused the earth's orbit to lengthen from 360 to 364.25 days over several centuries.

The lengthening of days is an interesting dynamic to factor..