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Leather jacket - made from pig skin - forbidden?

EyesOfKohl

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I saw some nice leather jackets on sale, but on the description it had 'constructed in pigskin'. In reference to Leviticus 11:7 -

And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

Would that fall under being forbidden? Under the 'touch their carcasses'?
 

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I saw some nice leather jackets on sale, but on the description it had 'constructed in pigskin'. In reference to Leviticus 11:7 -

And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.


Would that fall under being forbidden? Under the 'touch their carcasses'?


If I may say,

I tend to not think that all things pig-related were ever cursed or condemned in the Torah---and it's amazing considering how researchers have even used pigs to create organs for others and have used pigs for testing a new design of colonoscope as part of the battle to improve screening for colorectal cancer which is the second leading cause of cancer deaths in the Western world. For those Jewish men who are pig farmers and helping to save lives around the world, I say thank the Lord for what they do :)

Wearing a coat made from pig would be within the same category as showering/having soap because soap could conceivably be made from pork fat or porcine glycerine....and glycerine from pigs would be chemically identical to glycerine from any other animal. Fats from pigs would be chemically identical to the same fats from other animals, but the fatty acids would exist in proportions unique to pigs. That is, once the triacylglycerols themselves were extracted from the cell material, raw fat from an animal would still contain cells from that animal....and seeing the main ways in which gelatin is used from soaps to many diverse ways in the medical world, I do wonder on how far others may be willing to go with avoiding all products made from that which they believe is "unclean"....especially if stuck in the emergency room for whatever reason/not really having a say on what kind of soaps or materials are used to save one's life. Again, its rather amazing to see how many aspects of pigs are in products beyond what's mentioned. ..from paint to heart valves and many other things. For more information, one can go online/look up the site of Christien Meindertsma, and her Pig 05049 project--as seen under the title of "PIG 05049: Christien Meindertsma" ( )

And on her talk on the subject, one can go here/look up under the following title:


COnsuming something from a pig being detrimental isn't the same as saying all contact with pig parts is harmful/an "unclean" matter. It says in the Torah that one should not touch the carcasses of swine....specifically, the prohibition against "touching" a pig – or any non-kosher animal for that matter – from Leviticus 11:8, where it states: "You shall not eat of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you." Understanding this verse in its most literal sense leads one to the conclusion that it is forbidden to touch any part of a non-kosher animal's carcass. ..but that would be something that creates a lot of issues. Does this mean that we should not wear Hush Puppy shoes (made of pigskin) or play football or rugby with a ball made of pig skin?

And the same with using leather Bibles, as they're often made from pig skin.

To understand Leviticus 11:8 as being ultimately literal/understood as touching them in any sense would be problematic since that'd mean that it would have been unlawful for a Jew to have rode upon a camel, or to take out and make use of hog's lard in medicine. It seems the context was of touching them in order to kill them, and prepare them for food, and eat them.. and indeed all unnecessary touching of them is forbidden, lest it should bring them to the eating of them. Of course, the text may chiefly respect the touching of them dead for its own sake...as that can lead to diseases and a lot of other issues.

Animal hide does not carry impurities, especially when it is tanned. Even the apostle Peter did not seem to have an issue with it...as he lived with a tanner for sometime.
Acts 9:43
Peter stayed in Joppa for some time with a tanner named Simon.
Acts 9:42-43 / Acts 9
Acts 10:32
Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.’
Acts 10:31-33 / Acts 10

A tanner was involved in treating the skins of dead animals, thus contacting the unclean according to Jewish law---and an individual involved in such a trade was despised by many. In Acts 10:9-16, the passage addresses but whether Peter was going to recognize God’s cleansing actions in the life of Cornelius---the one who aided in beginning the Gentile Pentecost. Peter was being shown that being cleansed by God made one clean. The unclean beasts were being used because eating them would have naturally repulsed Peter—just as Americans are today when they see what passes for food in some cultures. In the same way Peter would have been repulsed at the idea of going into Cornelius’ house and preaching the gospel to them. We see the Jewish mindset in this regard when we hear what those of the circumcision said in Acts 11:18: ‘So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.’


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I find it interesting that Peter was staying and eating in the house of a Jewish believer whose livelihood would have made him unclean, but would have still held up his nose at entering the house of a Gentile. Simon was a tanner, which would have made him unclean, because the tanners had constant contact with animal carcasses (Ben Witherington III, New Testament History, (Baker: Grand Rapids, 2001), p. 208). The stench from the process would have been unbearable. It was bad enough that tanners had to place their homes outside of the city (notice the passage tells us his house was by the sea). So Peter, who was staying in a stinking hovel would have turned his nose up at entering the house of a gentile. Peter could understand that God could cleanse a Jew doing an unclean occupation, but could not understand God cleansing an unconverted Gentile. This is why God had to command him to eat things that would have disgusted him—to get through this ethnic barrier. For it does seem that Peter had some serious issues as it concerns prejudice and racism (more shared here).[/FONT]​
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yedida

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Easy G (G²);61664688 said:
If I may say,

I tend to not think that all things pig-related were ever cursed or condemned in the Torah---and it's amazing considering how researchers have even used pigs to create organs for others and have used pigs for testing a new design of colonoscope as part of the battle to improve screening for colorectal cancer which is the second leading cause of cancer deaths in the Western world. For those Jewish men who are pig farmers and helping to save lives around the world, I say thank the Lord for what they do :)

Wearing a coat made from pig would be within the same category as showering/having soap because soap could conceivably be made from pork fat or porcine glycerine....and glycerine from pigs would be chemically identical to glycerine from any other animal. Fats from pigs would be chemically identical to the same fats from other animals, but the fatty acids would exist in proportions unique to pigs. That is, once the triacylglycerols themselves were extracted from the cell material, raw fat from an animal would still contain cells from that animal....and seeing the main ways in which gelatin is used from soaps to many diverse ways in the medical world, I do wonder on how far others may be willing to go with avoiding all products made from that which they believe is "unclean"....especially if stuck in the emergency room for whatever reason/not really having a say on what kind of soaps or materials are used to save one's life. Again, its rather amazing to see how many aspects of pigs are in products beyond what's mentioned. ..from paint to heart valves and many other things. For more information, one can go online/look up the site of Christien Meindertsma, and her Pig 05049 project--as seen under the title of "PIG 05049: Christien Meindertsma" ( )

And on her talk on the subject, one can go here/look up under the following title:


COnsuming something from a pig being detrimental isn't the same as saying all contact with pig parts is harmful/an "unclean" matter. It says in the Torah that one should not touch the carcasses of swine....specifically, the prohibition against "touching" a pig – or any non-kosher animal for that matter – from Leviticus 11:8, where it states: "You shall not eat of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you." Understanding this verse in its most literal sense leads one to the conclusion that it is forbidden to touch any part of a non-kosher animal's carcass. ..but that would be something that creates a lot of issues. Does this mean that we should not wear Hush Puppy shoes (made of pigskin) or play football or rugby with a ball made of pig skin?

And the same with using leather Bibles, as they're often made from pig skin.

To understand Leviticus 11:8 as being ultimately literal/understood as touching them in any sense would be problematic since that'd mean that it would have been unlawful for a Jew to have rode upon a camel, or to take out and make use of hog's lard in medicine. It seems the context was of touching them in order to kill them, and prepare them for food, and eat them.. and indeed all unnecessary touching of them is forbidden, lest it should bring them to the eating of them. Of course, the text may chiefly respect the touching of them dead for its own sake...as that can lead to diseases and a lot of other issues.

Animal hide does not carry impurities, especially when it is tanned. Even the apostle Peter did not seem to have an issue with it...as he lived with a tanner for sometime.
Acts 9:43
Peter stayed in Joppa for some time with a tanner named Simon.
Acts 9:42-43 / Acts 9
Acts 10:32
Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.’
Acts 10:31-33 / Acts 10

A tanner was involved in treating the skins of dead animals, thus contacting the unclean according to Jewish law---and an individual involved in such a trade was despised by many. In Acts 10:9-16, the passage addresses but whether Peter was going to recognize God’s cleansing actions in the life of Cornelius---the one who aided in beginning the Gentile Pentecost. Peter was being shown that being cleansed by God made one clean. The unclean beasts were being used because eating them would have naturally repulsed Peter—just as Americans are today when they see what passes for food in some cultures. In the same way Peter would have been repulsed at the idea of going into Cornelius’ house and preaching the gospel to them. We see the Jewish mindset in this regard when we hear what those of the circumcision said in Acts 11:18: ‘So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.’


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I find it interesting that Peter was staying and eating in the house of a Jewish believer whose livelihood would have made him unclean, but would have still held up his nose at entering the house of a Gentile. Simon was a tanner, which would have made him unclean, because the tanners had constant contact with animal carcasses (Ben Witherington III, New Testament History, (Baker: Grand Rapids, 2001), p. 208). The stench from the process would have been unbearable. It was bad enough that tanners had to place their homes outside of the city (notice the passage tells us his house was by the sea). So Peter, who was staying in a stinking hovel would have turned his nose up at entering the house of a gentile. Peter could understand that God could cleanse a Jew doing an unclean occupation, but could not understand God cleansing an unconverted Gentile. This is why God had to command him to eat things that would have disgusted him—to get through this ethnic barrier. For it does seem that Peter had some serious issues as it concerns prejudice and racism (more shared here).[/FONT]​
__________________


As I've stated before, medicinally, I don't care, because life always trumps anything else. But where I can make a choice in clothing or soaps or shampoos that can be made from something else, I'll choose the something else.
 
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Qnts2

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I saw some nice leather jackets on sale, but on the description it had 'constructed in pigskin'. In reference to Leviticus 11:7 -

And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

Would that fall under being forbidden? Under the 'touch their carcasses'?

A carcass is a dead body and touching any dead body renders the person unclean until sunset.

Tanned leather is not a dead body. So tanned pigskin would not make a person unclean.

Just as an example, a donkey is not Kosher for food. Yet Jesus and others kept and rode donkeys. We can ride donkeys, but we can't eat a donkey. However, if the donkey dies, touching the carcass causes a person to be unclean til sunset. Skinning the carcass and tanning the skin to make a donkey skin rug, would make the person unclean because they touched and handled the dead body of the donkey, but using a donkey skin rug is ok. The rug is not a dead body and a rug is not used for food.

Added: there is a consistent theme in the Mosaic law concerning dead bodies. Something dead/dead fleshly body, is unclean and renders the person coming into contact unclean. Entering a grave yard and coming into contact with a grave makes a person unclean.
This is one of those strange themes in the law. The law of Moses points to the Messiah, so this theme likely points to the Messiah.
We are dead in our sins. In otherwords, we are dead flesh, which is unclean.


I couple this with another interesting command. The first born of a Kosher animal belongs to the Lord and is taken to the Temple for sacrifice. The first born of an unkosher animal is not suitable for sacrifice and must be redeemed/purchased back for a price or killed. Included in that list is a first born child, who needs to be redeemed. A baby falls into the same category as the donkey, unclean and in need of redemption.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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As I've stated before, medicinally, I don't care, because life always trumps anything else. But where I can make a choice in clothing or soaps or shampoos that can be made from something else, I'll choose the something else.
As said before, medicinal aspects are always something which are not necessary to focus on since the saving of lives is paramount. Nonetheless, IMHO, there are things as it concerns soaps and shampoos which are in/of themselves medicinal...especially when considering others being specifically recommended to take those things for medical purposes/their bodies being prone not to do well with other things ....or times when that's all one can afford.

One cannot focus on the medicinal aspect and have no qualms on the recreational aspect---something the Jewish people never had issue with since the issue was never about avoiding all things pig or unclean, just as riding on camels/horses (which were unclean) or sleeping in tents made from the hides of animals (unclean) was not seen as an issue.

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ken-sabuk-camels.jpg

Wearing pig skin as it concerns clothing or football were never what Leviticus was focused on and the fact that the apostles already associated/lived with Jewish tanners shows that.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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A carcass is a dead body and touching any dead body renders the person unclean until sunset.

Tanned leather is not a dead body. So tanned pigskin would not make a person unclean.

Just as an example, a donkey is not Kosher for food. Yet Jesus and others kept and rode donkeys. We can ride donkeys, but we can't eat a donkey. However, if the donkey dies, touching the carcass causes a person to be unclean til sunset. Skinning the carcass and tanning the skin to make a donkey skin rug, would make the person unclean because they touched and handled the dead body of the donkey, but using a donkey skin rug is ok. The rug is not a dead body and a rug is not used for food.

Added: there is a consistent theme in the Mosaic law concerning dead bodies. Something dead/dead fleshly body, is unclean and renders the person coming into contact unclean. Entering a grave yard and coming into contact with a grave makes a person unclean.
This is one of those strange themes in the law. The law of Moses points to the Messiah, so this theme likely points to the Messiah.
We are dead in our sins. In otherwords, we are dead flesh, which is unclean.


I couple this with another interesting command. The first born of a Kosher animal belongs to the Lord and is taken to the Temple for sacrifice. The first born of an unkosher animal is not suitable for sacrifice and must be redeemed/purchased back for a price or killed. Included in that list is a first born child, who needs to be redeemed. A baby falls into the same category as the donkey, unclean and in need of redemption.

Good points, as it concerns the donkey aspect when it comes to rugs and leather in general. There are levels that people can take things with the Law where the Law never required--and though the zeal to be careful is cool, it's not necessary in light of what was actually practiced by the Hebrews. With Donkey's, it's interesting to consider since Donkeys were commonly found among the domestic animals in Syria-Palestine...and various OT Laws identify them as significant possessions ( Exodus 13:12-14 Exodus 13 Exodus 20:16-18 Exodus 20 /Exodus 22:3-5 Exodus 22 )..as they were beasts of burden to carry your goods..and one point, in time of famine, unclean animals were indeed on the menu....

2 Kings 6:25
There was a great famine in the city; the siege lasted so long that a donkey's head sold for eighty shekels of silver, and a quarter of a cab of seed pods for five shekels.
2 Kings 6:24-26 2 Kings 6 (

Although farmers grew enough food to feed the people for a specific season, they did not have enough to maintain them in prolonged times of emergency when all supplies were cut off.But so severe was the famine/siege that the inhabitants of Samaria were reduced not only to slaughtering valuable animals...but consuming body parts that would not normally be consumed..and purchasing them at exhorbitant prices---as the cost of a live horse in 1 Kings 10:29 is only 150 shekels of silver and here a donkey's head cost eighty). During this crisis, even half a liter of DOVE's dung vost what the average worker could make in 6 months (five shekels of silver). Of course, none of that compares to seeing the reality of how people DID end up eating them when the Famine got severe that people actually eating their children as well. right afterward ( 2 Kings 6:27-29 2 Kings 6 )--as God warned often of when disobediance happened inDeuteronomy 28:54-56 Deuteronomy 28/Lamentations 2:19-21 Lamentations 2/ Ezekiel 5:9-11 / Ezekiel 5
Reminds me of the status of many 3rd world nations when famine hits hard...
 
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EyesOfKohl

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Thank you all for your replies. I must say at first, I was very hesitant on the matter. But Qnts2 and Easy G have made some fantastic points, which I'm going to have to agree with. Especially the points of riding on unclean animals, which is much less the same as wearing leather from them IMO and the Jewish tanners taken into account.

It certainly does make you more concious of leather products though, after I asked the original question, I was thinking of footballs, bible covers (which some of you have already mentioned), belts, handbags, couches, car interiors, shoes... There'd be alot of people wearing or using unclean items, IMO (But I've agreed with Qnts2 and Easy G's posts).
 
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Thank you all for your replies. I must say at first, I was very hesitant on the matter. But Qnts2 and Easy G have made some fantastic points, which I'm going to have to agree with. Especially the points of riding on unclean animals, which is much less the same as wearing leather from them IMO and the Jewish tanners taken into account.

It certainly does make you more concious of leather products though, after I asked the original question, I was thinking of footballs, bible covers (which some of you have already mentioned), belts, handbags, couches, car interiors, shoes... There'd be alot of people wearing or using unclean items, IMO (But I've agreed with Qnts2 and Easy G's posts).

Since they are not for food, there has to be a purpose for all these unclean critters. :D
 
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Since they are not for food, there has to be a purpose for all these unclean critters. :D
I'm reminded of Charlotte's Web :) I'm thankful for critters I've been blessed with like my Hermit Crabs and my beloved Sun COnures parrot (who died sadly 2 weeks ago) and dogs to give comfort. Everything has a purpose
 
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A carcass is a dead body and touching any dead body renders the person unclean until sunset. Tanned leather is not a dead body. So tanned pigskin would not make a person unclean. Just as an example, a donkey is not Kosher for food. Yet Jesus and others kept and rode donkeys.
Messiah did not sin or become unclean for riding the donkey because the donkey was alive. If He sat on it while it was dead, then it would be a sin, and He would be unclean.

Now, if the donkey was dead, then its carcass (body parts) is considered unclean and untouchable (except to dispose of it). It's skin, organs, bones, entrails, etc. are all considered part of its carcass. No, the skin is not the whole of a carcass, but it's part of the carcass. I would say that processed dead skin (e.g. leather) of the unclean animal is, therefore, still unclean to touch.

By what reasoning or authority do you divorce "dead skin" from "carcass"?

If YHWH said "don't touch that purse," can I touch the clasp of the purse under the idea that it isn't the whole purse?!
 
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