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Why do people try to obey the law when it's not possible
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i'll look some more later because i remember specific passages i simply cannot find in a 15 miute break. but under the curse of the law. no one can keep it.
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I myself think this is love.
James chapter 2 verse 13
Judgement without mercy will be shown any one who hasn't been merciful mercy triumphs over judgement.
James chapter 2 verse 13
Judgement without mercy will be shown any one who hasn't been merciful mercy triumphs over judgement.
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Mark, here is one very specific passage, it even names the law of moses. Not just one part of the law. but the whole law. i'd like to hear your take before digging up more.
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? (Acts 15:5-10)
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? (Acts 15:5-10)
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Sorry, but I am going to be responding less frequently now because I am in the midst of a pretty heavy teaching load for the next four weeks. I will try to respond when I can.
In the Acts passage you cite, I agree, he is talking about the law of Moses. I think that there is a difference between the word "bear" and the word "keep". At best this seems to me ambiguous, but especially so since I quoted two passages that clearly say that people "kept" the law. But please show me more passages.
In the Acts passage you cite, I agree, he is talking about the law of Moses. I think that there is a difference between the word "bear" and the word "keep". At best this seems to me ambiguous, but especially so since I quoted two passages that clearly say that people "kept" the law. But please show me more passages.
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1 Kings chapter 8 verse 46 When they sin against you for there is no one who does not sin
2 Chronicles chapter 6 verse 36 When they sin against you for there is no one who does not sin
Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
John chapter 15 verse 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as your self.
I'm not sure you read this yet.
Take care.
2 Chronicles chapter 6 verse 36 When they sin against you for there is no one who does not sin
Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
John chapter 15 verse 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as your self.
I'm not sure you read this yet.
Take care.
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Thank you, disciple1, for the verses. Pardon me if you were talking to someone else. The verses affirm what I affirm, that all people have sinned. But it does not affect my argument that it is possible to keep the law and that many people have. If that seems like a contradiction, then this may be a teachable moment.
For the last, I don't know how many pages of posts, I have been trying to explain that when we look at the way the Bible uses the phrase "to keep the law", it is clear that it does not mean the same thing as "to be sinless".
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In the New Testament/Covenant, the law we are now to keep is the one written in our hearts. It is the "law of liberty", the "royal law of love".
Relating to God's character and requirements throughout the Word of God, He is unchanging. In every case where the Word refers to the requirement of keeping His statutes, laws, or ordinances, we now receive this as the law of love. We are required to walk in love. When we do, we fulfill the spirit of the law.
Jesus was accused of being a law breaker, but He kept the spirit of that law flawlessly. We are called to do the same. Although we will sin, He made the provision for our repentance and forgiveness by His blood sacrifice.
He tells us to walk before Him with a perfect heart, as He told Abraham. Abraham did not enjoy the covenant by the Spirit as we do now, but even he was given a choice to obey God. We are to do the same.
Regarding the "law of ordinances", we cannot be justified by them and in trying to do so we "fall from grace'. This is because grace enabled these to be fulfilled by Jesus' sacrifice.
Relating to God's character and requirements throughout the Word of God, He is unchanging. In every case where the Word refers to the requirement of keeping His statutes, laws, or ordinances, we now receive this as the law of love. We are required to walk in love. When we do, we fulfill the spirit of the law.
Jesus was accused of being a law breaker, but He kept the spirit of that law flawlessly. We are called to do the same. Although we will sin, He made the provision for our repentance and forgiveness by His blood sacrifice.
He tells us to walk before Him with a perfect heart, as He told Abraham. Abraham did not enjoy the covenant by the Spirit as we do now, but even he was given a choice to obey God. We are to do the same.
Regarding the "law of ordinances", we cannot be justified by them and in trying to do so we "fall from grace'. This is because grace enabled these to be fulfilled by Jesus' sacrifice.
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Originally Posted by Alive_Again
He took away the law of ordinances (in the first covenant) of sacrfices and burnt offering.
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:9
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:16-17
His law in the inward part teaches us how to love.
I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
2 John 1:4-6
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
1 John 4:21
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1 John 2:7
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:12
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 13:34-35
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Mark 12:29-31
This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matt 22:38-40
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him.
1 John 3:23-24
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 13:8-10
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
James 2:8-13
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
James 1:25
This is how we love God, and we grow according to knowledge how we do this, as we mature in Christ.
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 14:23-24
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Matt 7:21-27
Grace has been given to us to enable to walk in the royal law of love in our hearts. By the works of the flesh (your own works) can no man profit. Yet, we are commanded to walk in the grace given us, to love God and man by doing the sayings of Jesus...the will of God.
In the New Testament/Covenant, the law we are now to keep is the one written in our hearts. It is the "law of liberty", the "royal law of love".
He took away the law of ordinances (in the first covenant) of sacrfices and burnt offering.
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:9
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:16-17
His law in the inward part teaches us how to love.
I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
2 John 1:4-6
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
1 John 4:21
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1 John 2:7
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:12
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 13:34-35
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Mark 12:29-31
This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matt 22:38-40
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him.
1 John 3:23-24
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 13:8-10
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
James 2:8-13
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
James 1:25
This is how we love God, and we grow according to knowledge how we do this, as we mature in Christ.
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 14:23-24
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Matt 7:21-27
Grace has been given to us to enable to walk in the royal law of love in our hearts. By the works of the flesh (your own works) can no man profit. Yet, we are commanded to walk in the grace given us, to love God and man by doing the sayings of Jesus...the will of God.
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Interesting thread. And it even seems civil. 
I would love to take a stab at JLB's question -
Now that the law has led us to Christ, are we now free to break the law?
I wonder if the real question being asked is: are we free to sin?
If we exhibit the fruits of the Spirit, how can we sin?
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Now what is arguable is the definition of those charateristics. They certianly present challenges in our world today of twisted definitions. Is that where the break down occurs?
What I find evident in my life is that I simply have no desire to perform the things listed in verses 19-21. I think these things listed in 19-23 are life styles and habitual.
That is why we have I John 1:9-2:1. I believe John is talking about life styles when he says - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
bugkiller
I would love to take a stab at JLB's question -
Now that the law has led us to Christ, are we now free to break the law?
I wonder if the real question being asked is: are we free to sin?
If we exhibit the fruits of the Spirit, how can we sin?
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Now what is arguable is the definition of those charateristics. They certianly present challenges in our world today of twisted definitions. Is that where the break down occurs?
What I find evident in my life is that I simply have no desire to perform the things listed in verses 19-21. I think these things listed in 19-23 are life styles and habitual.
That is why we have I John 1:9-2:1. I believe John is talking about life styles when he says - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
bugkiller
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Galatians chapter 5 verse 4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14 the entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
This is all we have to do.
Luke chapter 10 verses 25-37
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher, he asked, what must I do to inherit eternal life? What is written in the Law? he replied. How do you read it? He answered: Love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and Love your neighbor as yourself. You have answered correctly, Jesus replied. Do this and you will live. But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, And who is my neighbor? In reply Jesus said: A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too , a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. Look after him said, and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have. Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers. The expert in the law replied, The one who had mercy on him. Jesus told him, Go and do likewise.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14 the entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
This is all we have to do.
Luke chapter 10 verses 25-37
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher, he asked, what must I do to inherit eternal life? What is written in the Law? he replied. How do you read it? He answered: Love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and Love your neighbor as yourself. You have answered correctly, Jesus replied. Do this and you will live. But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, And who is my neighbor? In reply Jesus said: A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too , a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. Look after him said, and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have. Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers. The expert in the law replied, The one who had mercy on him. Jesus told him, Go and do likewise.
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Steve Petersen
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1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10 If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point there guilty of breaking all of it.
Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
Why do people go bowling when they will never bowl a perfect game?
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Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
verse 18 and 19 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless for the law made nothing perfect and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
verse 18 and 19 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless for the law made nothing perfect and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
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Hismessenger
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The problem is that most do not understand that the law was not given for us to keep. It was given to identify our transgressions. Ask yourself, would a loving and righteous God give us something to do which he knew we could not do? Looking at it from that perspective creates a whole other picture.
hismessenger
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mmksparbud
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The whole other picture that perspective creates is one of your own making and has zero support in the Old Testament, which says that not only was it not too difficult to keep, but that many people did.
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I couldn't think of a better statement to illustrate what the Word says about what we are NOT accountable to do and what we ARE accountable to do.
The law of ordinances are no longer for us today. The punishments for not keeping the spirit of that same law though are. IF we walk in the Spirit we are not under the law. The law was given because of transgressions. If we transgress, we come under the law.
That same loving and righteous God now asks us to do something which He gave us the ability to do, by His Spirit and our reborn nature, to walk in divine love. It's requirements go way beyond what the law of ordinances required. Nonetheless, we can keep our hearts and we can walk in love and fulfill all the righteous requirements that the law was a shadow of.
We can never dismiss our accountability to walk in love and although we are to consider ourselves dead unto sin (so that we can walk in newness of life), we must not sin (meaning we can). If we do, we must repent, turning our hearts toward Him and purposing to walk in love again, and be cleansed.
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